Cinematic Magic (WIP)

[Jallorn]

At the moment, this is simply a concept thread, but I hope to eventually turn it into an actual system for use, or at least part of a system. What I'm interested in is the idea of a magic system that doesn't limit what a player can do to whatever spells have been officially made and whatever they can fit into the system. Note: My words feel a bit clumsy tonight, so bear with me if I ramble. Basically, I want a system that can permit one of those worlds were magic is limited only by skill and imagination.

Currently, I am drawing heavily on the FASERIP (http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/advanced-game-and-modules.html)'s Power Stunt system, but there are aspects of it I don't like, so while I'm pulling ideas from it, I don't plan on a conversion. I'll leave this here for now since I"m tired, need to get up in the morning, and would like to see what people think of this idea, if there are any other systems I should look into, and if anyone has any ideas for stuff yet.

[Epsilon Rose]

I'd like in on this. I tried my hand at creating (read repairing) a system for that (the mage in my sig), but I sorta stopped after I realized it would just result in a caster with an infinite spell list. I'm not sure it can be done while sticking to anything remotely similar to the vancian system; in fact I'm not sure what you'd have to do in order to get away from a super wizard scenario, but that doesn't mean I don't want to try.

I'm not sure what the power stunt system is, in which of those books (and in which section) should I look for it?
Also are you familiar with the Adjective+noun and symolic magic systems GURPS and several other systems use (they're alternative systems for GURPS, but that's the only one where I've actually read through them).

[Jallorn]

I was intending to have nothing to do with the vancian system (which I detest don't really care for, by the way) in this project.

Power Stunt basic idea is on page 16 of the Player's Handbook. Full understanding requires reading some of the other aspects of the rules though. I do not know those magic systems, but I do know GURPS, kinda, so I will look into that.

Also, yes I said I was going to bed. I couldn't sleep so I decided to pop back on to see if anyone had responded... DON'T JUDGE ME!

[Gamer Girl]

I've never seen a good free form magic type system. As you run into this basic problem:

You want a spellcaster to to all sorts of stuff, but not too much. A big problem is energy, how much can the caster use? If you put too many limits then it's not free, but if you have no limits is crazy.

[Jallorn]

I've never seen a good free form magic type system. As you run into this basic problem:

You want a spellcaster to to all sorts of stuff, but not too much. A big problem is energy, how much can the caster use? If you put too many limits then it's not free, but if you have no limits is crazy.

Right, unfortunately, the primary limiting factor would have to be the GM. However, most of the time that's easier for everyone when it's outright stated in the rules. A lot.

[Welknair]

If you haven't already, I'd suggest taking a look at Mage: The Awakening. They have a pretty detailed system for "Improvised Magic" which the PCs tend to use a lot.

The one worry with this concept is that it makes spellcasters REALLY Tier 1. Not only can they do the things described by their spells, but they aren't even limited to that anymore. Especially with inventive players...

Not to mention it kills Metamagic as you can simply improv a spell with double the normal range or what have you.

[Jallorn]

If you haven't already, I'd suggest taking a look at Mage: The Awakening. They have a pretty detailed system for "Improvised Magic" which the PCs tend to use a lot.

The one worry with this concept is that it makes spellcasters REALLY Tier 1. Not only can they do the things described by their spells, but they aren't even limited to that anymore. Especially with inventive players...

Not to mention it kills Metamagic as you can simply improv a spell with double the normal range or what have you.

Well, it's intended to be for a system where the magic users are the primary focus, if not always, that is, PCs will practically always be magic users. And Metamagic is very much a rules focused idea, so it's not something I care about preserving.

I should mention, the system is built heavily on precedence. Let's say you have a necromancer who has never raised more than a single skeleton, and now wants to attempt to raise three simultaneously. That's going to be challenging for him, but not impossible, since it's more or less only a single step up. Now if instead the same novice necromancer wants to try and raise a huge skeleton that's already steeped in magic, like, say, a dragon, or wants to raise a whole graveyard full of skeletons, that's going to be much harder, if not effectively impossible for him, without draining his own life or something similar.

[Welknair]

Well, it's intended to be for a system where the magic users are the primary focus, if not always, that is, PCs will practically always be magic users. And Metamagic is very much a rules focused idea, so it's not something I care about preserving.

I should mention, the system is built heavily on precedence. Let's say you have a necromancer who has never raised more than a single skeleton, and now wants to attempt to raise three simultaneously. That's going to be challenging for him, but not impossible, since it's more or less only a single step up. Now if instead the same novice necromancer wants to try and raise a huge skeleton that's already steeped in magic, like, say, a dragon, or wants to raise a whole graveyard full of skeletons, that's going to be much harder, if not effectively impossible for him, without draining his own life or something similar.

Okay, if all the PCs are casters, the Tier 1 is less of an issue (Just as in Mage).

Suggestion: Try to differentiate the schools of magic a bit more. All casters should need to specialize in a certain area and said specializations should be more apparent than a couple of bonus spells. Otherwise the all-caster party just seems redundant. There can still be generalists, but that in and of itself is a kind of specialization.

[Jallorn]

Okay, if all the PCs are casters, the Tier 1 is less of an issue (Just as in Mage).

Suggestion: Try to differentiate the schools of magic a bit more. All casters should need to specialize in a certain area and said specializations should be more apparent than a couple of bonus spells. Otherwise the all-caster party just seems redundant. There can still be generalists, but that in and of itself is a kind of specialization.

Absolutely, that's definitely something I was thinking was needed. The exact form is uncertain, but yes, just because two mages are the same power doesn't mean they can do all the same things.

[Welknair]

Absolutely, that's definitely something I was thinking was needed. The exact form is uncertain, but yes, just because two mages are the same power doesn't mean they can do all the same things.

In Mage there were 10 schools of magic instead of eight. You would have two Major Arcana that were linked (There were 5 types of caster) and one Minor Arcana which was the opposite of your two. Only those with a particular school as a Major Arcana could get to the highest level and those with a school as a Minor really couldn't go very far. However, it is possible to help teach someone how to use your Major Arcana and in that way raise them past their normal max.

I also like their Rote system. When you find a particular Improv'd spell very useful, you can go through a process to internalize it as a Rote which can be used far more reliably and cheaply.

Just throwing out ideas.