Breaking things with my face

[Lord.Sorasen]

So, I'm about to be in a new campaign, and I am rolling a character this time. I might use an int-based type, but more interesting to me right now is something of a sunder specialist. Recently (very recently) there was a thread asking how a fighter would escape a room, and the answer was that he could just break the walls down.

This is awesome and I want to create a character who can do this. I have really only a couple limitations: I don't care for tome of battle, and while I am ok with magic/psionics, I need my breaking things to be done with my physical body and not with a weapon or magic (though it could be magic enhanced fists or what have you. Since an unarmed strike needn't be a fist I was thinking I'd mostly headbutt through walls), and I want to be able to do it all day every day. For all intents and purposes, I am assuming it begins at level 1.

So far I'm thinking dips in monk and fighter would be pretty useful, for improved sunder and a more respectable unarmed damage. I love the idea of tashalatora but I have no idea where to take it, and I wasn't sure about race at all, though somehow the idea of half-orc for the sake of rage paragon feature to monk to frenzied berserker seems pretty awesome.

Well, any way you guys could help a guy out?

[dethkruzer]

I think there was either a monk feat and/or magic item that allowed you to ignore hardness with unarmed attacks. can't remember what book.

[Eldariel]

Dungeoncrasher Fighter [Dungeonscape] combined with Barbarian (with Destructive Rage [Complete Warrior], probably going into Frenzied Berserker because why not) is precisely what you want. Massive bonuses to breaking objects, ability to hurt people seriously by knocking them into walls, all the good stuff. If you have a good Charisma (could be made use of with Intimidating Rage [CW], Zhentarim Fighter [Champions of Valor Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)] and Imperious Command [Drow of the Underdark]), a level of Marshal [Miniatures Handbook] for "Motivate Strength" would also work. All this combines great into normal Bull Rush-stuff with Shock Trooper & Leap Attack for charging.

Take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike [Tome of Battle] and you're good. Whatever you think of Tome of Battle, Superior Unarmed Strike is by far the best way to get a decent unarmed damage die in the game without wasting time on Monk-levels. Oh, and you obviously want Power Attack. Frankly, ToB classes would excel at this but they aren't really necessary; for damage-based breaking you only need Power Attack and multipliers and for Break Object Strength-checks you only need Dungeoncrasher, Destructive Rage, massive strength and Strength-check bonuses like Marshal. All this perfectly mundane.


EDIT: Dungeoncrasher and Destructive Rage alone give you +18 to breaking objects with Strength-checks. Further, with 18 base Strength (could do this with Human for style points), Rage & Frenzy you'd have 28 Strength for +9. +27 base Strength-check. Then add Motivate Strength and like 18 Charisma for +31. Then level-ups for 1 more Strength and magic items for +4 Str and +2 Cha for like +35 Strength-checks.

This is, by the way, enough to break through 1ft of superior masonry, reinforced masonry, 3 inches of iron (need to roll to break through magically treated iron), though still 20 too low to break through 5' of unworked stone (that's DC 65).

It's not as efficient as using Psionics/Magic but it's purely mundane and frightfully efficient still.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Dungeoncrasher Fighter [Dungeonscape] combined with Barbarian (with Destructive Rage [Complete Warrior], probably going into Frenzied Berserker because why not) is precisely what you want. Massive bonuses to breaking objects, ability to hurt people seriously by knocking them into walls, all the good stuff. If you have a good Charisma (could be made use of with Intimidating Rage [CW], Zhentarim Fighter [Champions of Valor Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)] and Imperious Command [Drow of the Underdark]), a level of Marshal [Miniatures Handbook] for "Motivate Strength" would also work. All this combines great into normal Bull Rush-stuff with Shock Trooper & Leap Attack for charging.

Take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike [Tome of Battle] and you're good. Whatever you think of Tome of Battle, Superior Unarmed Strike is by far the best way to get a decent unarmed damage die in the game without wasting time on Monk-levels. Oh, and you obviously want Power Attack. Frankly, ToB classes would excel at this but they aren't really necessary; for damage-based breaking you only need Power Attack and multipliers and for Break Object Strength-checks you only need Dungeoncrasher, Destructive Rage, massive strength and Strength-check bonuses like Marshal. All this perfectly mundane.


EDIT: Dungeoncrasher and Destructive Rage alone give you +18 to breaking objects with Strength-checks. Further, with 18 base Strength (could do this with Human for style points), Rage & Frenzy you'd have 28 Strength for +9. +27 base Strength-check. Then add Motivate Strength and like 18 Charisma for +31. Then level-ups for 1 more Strength and magic items for +4 Str and +2 Cha for like +35 Strength-checks.

This is, by the way, enough to break through 1ft of superior masonry, reinforced masonry, 3 inches of iron (need to roll to break through magically treated iron), though still 20 too low to break through 5' of unworked stone (that's DC 65).

It's not as efficient as using Psionics/Magic but it's purely mundane and frightfully efficient still.

Purely out of curiosity, what would tomb of battle do for me? My main concern with it is that my group tends to be low-op in a lot of things. I am willing to trust my own incompetence to keep my power in check, but I hear tome of battle is super easy to play well, and if that's the case I'll eat my teammates and make the game less fun for them.

Can I power-attack with an unarmed strike? I was under the impression that it was not a possibility.

Also race-wise, is there anything particularly of note? I understand warforged barbarians never fatigue but there's a warforged in the campaign I am dming so I am tired of them for now. Goliath's bonuses seem like they'd be really useful, and I must admit I have a huge soft spot for orcs for whatever reason.

[Eldariel]

Purely out of curiosity, what would tomb of battle do for me? My main concern with it is that my group tends to be low-op in a lot of things. I am willing to trust my own incompetence to keep my power in check, but I hear tome of battle is super easy to play well, and if that's the case I'll eat my teammates and make the game less fun for them.

Tome of Battle is basically a book with a bunch of classes that learn maneuvers (basically different attacks). There's a line of maneuvers in "Stone Dragon" discipline which allows you to make an attack with some minor bonus damage, and more importantly ignore the Hardness of objects you strike (called "Mountain Hammer"). Normally objects have Hardness (basically Damage Reduction for objects, just rather high on average; Adamantine is Hardness 20, for example, so attacks doing under 20 points of damage aren't going to scratch it no matter how many years you spend hacking it), but Mountain Hammer penetrates all that just fine (though DM ruling in some extreme still applies under DMG guidelines for adjudicating what weapon can harm what object; but that shouldn't largely be a factor if you're smacking things with your fists/face/unarmed strike).

The benefits of this are rather obvious far as breaking walls with your face goes. Though yes, Tome of Battle-classes are rather strong without system mastery so if everyone is new and doesn't stumble upon something strong, you'd probably be a tad strong. Still, the book at the very least contains feats that would be of use to you even if you don't use the classes there-in.


Can I power-attack with an unarmed strike? I was under the impression that it was not a possibility.

*chuckle* It would help to read the Power Attack feat description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack). Specifically this line:
"You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks)"

It's explicitly possible to Power Attack with unarmed strikes and natural attacks.


Also race-wise, is there anything particularly of note? I understand warforged barbarians never fatigue but there's a warforged in the campaign I am dming so I am tired of them for now. Goliath's bonuses seem like they'd be really useful, and I must admit I have a huge soft spot for orcs for whatever reason.

Orcs are very, very good for smacking things. Of particular note are Water Orcs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs) and Dragonborn Orcs (Dragonborn Template is in Races of the Dragon; basically turns any race draconic, giving them -2 Dex, +2 Con and losing their own natural abilities for a set from Dragonborn instead). Goliaths aren't bad either. Anything with a strength bonus this side of Half-Orc is probably a good choice. Humans are, as always, solid also.

[Quietus]

Goliath would make a solid choice if you can swallow the LA+1, because when sundering a weapon, you get a +4 bonus on the attack roll for a size benefit, and when making a strength check to burst an object, you get a +4 bonus on the roll for each size category you are above medium. Powerful Build plays into both of these, plus the strength boost is always nice.

[Heatwizard]

When you smash through walls, please remember to shout "OH YEAHHHHH" at everything on the other side.

[Divide by Zero]

Adamantine prosthetic forehead?

[Seerow]

I was going to suggest a Monk2/Psiwar18 with Tashalatora for the great unarmed strike on the psiwar chasis, but I have to agree the dungeoncrasher fighter seems almost exactly what you want.

You could even dip into Tome of Battle for Superior Unarmed Strike, without getting any maneuvers (since you're worried about overshadowing the party), and deal unarmed strike damage similar to a monk. Get a monk's belt on top of it, and you have the same unarmed strike damage as a monk.


Also, I would suggest Goliath or something that is either large or has powerful build as your race for a dungeoncrasher, soley to be able to gain Knockback, which is amazing with the dungeoncrasher.

[Greenish]

Also, I would suggest Goliath or something that is either large or has powerful build as your race for a dungeoncrasher, soley to be able to gain Knockback, which is amazing with the dungeoncrasher.Hell yeah! Punch people into walls, then punch through the walls!

Of course, warforged juggernauts work great with dungeoncrashing too. Shame warforged can't get Powerful Build (I feel the juggernaut capstone ought to be Powerful Build, instead of the wussy Greater Powerful Charge).

[Talentless]

Make sure you get a magic helmet that makes you immune to mind altering effects, so that when it comes off and you get mind controlled you can go "NO CHARLES NO!!! GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

[Lord.Sorasen]

When you smash through walls, please remember to shout "OH YEAHHHHH" at everything on the other side.

I'm thinking more "I'm the juggernaut, *****!" But variation is always good.

Goliath seems like a good choice. Also dragonborn goliath. QUESTION: If I can fly with dragonwings, would there be anything preventing me from just flying through walls as well? By this same logic, could I fly through ceilings, or perhaps with a ring of jumping jump through ceilings? Because while wings are cool I honestly would be fine just ultra-jumping.

My plan is to ultimately break all the things that I can all the time. It is a noble goal I think.

[Seerow]

Flight should not preclude being able to use dungeoncrasher based on my memory, so yeah a Dragonborn Goliath would work great.

[zyborg]

...I totally was going to make a D&D version of Juggernaut when I first joined here... the idea seems kind of lame now, but the power set would still be cool.

[Greenish]

If you fly with wings, there's a certain amount you have to travel each turn so you don't fall. If you can travel that length, then yeah, you can smash your way through walls.

Of course, flying dungeoncrashers have the advantage of being able to bull rush enemies to the ground, which is handy when no wall presents itself.

[DementedFellow]

I'm going to float this idea out there. Why not play a Treant? Double damage against objects. Use the savage progression if need be. Belt of Giant strength is all you'd need, if even that.

[Divide by Zero]

My plan is to ultimately break all the things that I can all the time. It is a noble goal I think.

This is pretty much the greatest character motivation ever.

[Greenish]

I'm going to float this idea out there. Why not play a Treant? Double damage against objects. Use the savage progression if need be. Belt of Giant strength is all you'd need, if even that.Maul of the Titans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mauloftheTitans) gets you triple damage against inanimate objects.

One of the Eberron books had a similar item, which only dealt double damage vs. objects, but was also made of adamantine (and thus handily ignores most hardness).

[DementedFellow]

Maul of the Titans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mauloftheTitans) gets you triple damage against inanimate objects.

One of the Eberron books had a similar item, which only dealt double damage vs. objects, but was also made of adamantine (and thus handily ignores most hardness).

So would the racial ability of Treants and this Maul stack? x5 (or x4?) against inanimate objects would seem to bypass most hardness.

[Greenish]

So would the racial ability of Treants and this Maul stack?They should, and I think they'd follow normal multiplication rules of 3.5, i.e. x4.

[Edit]: Oh wait, this was about breaking things with your face, you'd have to lift the property to Necklace of Natural Weapons.

[Lord.Sorasen]

...I totally was going to make a D&D version of Juggernaut when I first joined here... the idea seems kind of lame now, but the power set would still be cool.

I just finished watching Gurren Lagann, so I think I'm going to combine the Juggernaut build and get essentially a slightly more intelligent but just as reckless "You can't stop me! NO WALLS CAN STOP ME." And then I'll headbutt through everything.

[Heatwizard]

Really, what you need to do is just go around, collecting wall-related battle cries. To keep things fresh. Maybe have some floor/ceiling ones on hand, too, just in case.

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. *crash*

[Lonely Tylenol]

This is another one of those things I can really see War Hulk working for. You get +2 STR per level as opposed to BAB progression, so you will have a godly bonus to Strength checks to break things as well as + damage to objects equal to your War Hulk level. Combines well with Dungeoncrasher.

[Zonugal]

This is another one of those things I can really see War Hulk working for. You get +2 STR per level as opposed to BAB progression, so you will have a godly bonus to Strength checks to break things as well as + damage to objects equal to your War Hulk level. Combines well with Dungeoncrasher.

Works even better if you use Legacy Champion to advance War Hulk. Pick up some BaB and strength boosts in addition to a mighty weapon (which will probably help in smashing things).

[Amiel]

There should be a way to obtain an Adamantine Face, whether it is your own face or someone else's is immaterial.
Then you'll be able to break buildings and more with your face.

[Claudius Maximus]

Kensai ==> Metalline Face is a completely legal way to do it.

[Urpriest]

Flight should not preclude being able to use dungeoncrasher based on my memory, so yeah a Dragonborn Goliath would work great.

Though be warned, a Dragonborn Goliath would lose many of its fun racial abilities, including its Powerful Build, IIRC.

[Flame of Anor]

When you smash through walls, please remember to shout "OH YEAHHHHH" at everything on the other side.

DO IT. This is the chance of a lifetime.

[Amiel]

DO IT. This is the chance of a lifetime.

Play as an anthropomorphic Kool-Aid.

[Madcrafter]

Animated cauldron full of the red coloured Potion of Charm Monster.

[qoalabear]

Though be warned, a Dragonborn Goliath would lose many of its fun racial abilities, including its Powerful Build, IIRC.

Actually Powerful Build is specifically called out as being retained by the Dragonborn transformation (under "Size" in the "Mechanics of Rebirth" sidebar on p.10). Mountain Movement, Acclimated, and the sense motive bonus are lost, but they're less important than Powerful Build.


Also, seconding the usage of the Kool-Aid Man's battle cry.

[Jackalope]

Don't forget a Goliath's Barbarian racial substitution. Mountain Rage = godly.

If your character starts off as a Monk but then switches to a non-lawful, he still retains all Monk abilities.

[Thespianus]

Get a Wizard friend, get him to cast Greater Mighty Wallop on your head. You now headbutt things as if your head was 1-2-3-4 sizes larger than it is. All day long (almost, it's 1 hr/level)

Then: Enlarge Person. You now have reach with your 8D6 damage dealing head. ;)

[Gwendol]

Can't enlarge a goliath, but Mountain rage works. Also, don't forget the Knockback feat. Crash through the walls of a goblin warren and start the fun!

[Thespianus]

Goliath might be more effective, but I would LOVE to see a Halfling build using the Headbutt Everything-concept. :)

[Lonely Tylenol]

Goliath might be more effective, but I would LOVE to see a Halfling build using the Headbutt Everything-concept. :)

Lots of groin hits that way.

[Fouredged Sword]

Take the halfling and a goliath with blood storm blade levels

Throw the halfling at walls.

Now you have a living cannonball yoyo.