Tome of Battle: Is There a Handbook?

[backpackjack]

I realize that the community is at least partially divided on Tome of Battle. Well, I went out and borrowed one from the library before shelling out the cash. I am encouraged by the positive comments about ToB, but I must admit that I'm a bit confused by it all. (If that makes me a numbskull, so be it.) But I was really wondering if there was a good ToB handbook out there? Or is there anyone who can help me think through the architexcture of ToB so that I can digest it a little easier?

[sonofzeal]

Here you go! (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871270/Tome_of_Battle_for_Dummies)

If you have any specific questions, let us know. =)

[PersonMan]

While I don't know about a handbook, as someone who's just gotten to know the system I've found that the best way to understand the ToB system is to think of maneuvers a bit like spells-you know X number of them, and prepare Y per day. Stances are like all-day buffs-you can switch between them quickly or stay in one all the time. Once you use a maneuver, it's exhausted until you regain it.

The three classes all have different ways of regaining spent maneuvers. The crusader, who can only use a few maneuvers at the start of combat and gains access to more each round(starting at 2, going to 4, IIRC), has his maneuvers refreshed(and restarts the get-more-maneuvers process) on the round after he has gotten the last of his readied maneuvers.

The swordsage can use all of his readied maneuvers at the start of combat, and uses a full-round action to meditate to regain one.

A warblade can use all of his readied maneuvers at the start of combat, and uses a move action(and standard action to attack or do nothing) to regain all of his spent maneuvers.

If you have maneuvers via the Martial Study feat, you can use it at the start of combat and regain it after every encounter. Also, all classes(apart from the crusader, who has his special maneuver-getting thing) regain all of their spent maneuvers at the end of combat(1 minute without attacking or being attacked).

Individual maneuvers sometimes have different ways of being "cast" than just attacking, some require charging or other special actions(I'm not really sure about how many are like this, as I haven't really taken a good look at the in-detail descriptions of each maneuver.

EDIT: Ironically, I have been swordsaged.

[sonofzeal]

Piece of advice - bookmark page 48. You'll be referring back there a lot.

[The-Mage-King]

A warblade uses a swift action, actually. Not a move.

[Greenish]

The crusader, who can only use a few maneuvers at the start of combat and gains access to more each round(starting at 2, going to 4, IIRC)5, with the feat.


A warblade can use all of his readied maneuvers at the start of combat, and uses a move action(and standard action to attack or do nothing) to regain all of his spent maneuvers.It's swift action and attack, or swift action and standard action to "flourish your weapon", so you can full attack and regain maneuvers on the same round.


Also, you can change your maneuvers readied selection by meditating/training/praying for 5 minutes (or full round, with a feat).

[Gray Mage]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193992) you (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181655) go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181705), one handbook for each class. They aren't complete, but I think they're worth reading.

[Warlawk]

ToB handbook for dummies!

Step 1) Read Tome of Battle
Step 2) ????
Step 3) Profit! (In the form of playing melee who can have nice things.)

Seriously though, if you have any specific questions I'm sure people can answer them for you.

[Warlawk]

The three classes all have different ways of regaining spent maneuvers. The crusader, who can only use a few maneuvers at the start of combat and gains access to more each round(starting at 2, going to 4, IIRC), has his maneuvers refreshed(and restarts the get-more-maneuvers process) on the round after he has gotten the last of his readied maneuvers.

Incorrect. Crusader is granted maneuvers at the beginning of their first turn. They are granted 1 additional maneuver at the end of their turn. If they have no remaining ungranted maneuvers at the end of their turn then they are granted a random selection of maneuvers again just as they were on their first turn.

Personally, if you're going to play a crusader I cannot stress enough how much nicer it is to print out cards for your maneuvers and just shuffle them, dealing out the top 2 (or 3 with feat) when you're granted new maneuvers. I can't imagine playing a crusader without cards.



The crusader, who can only use a few maneuvers at the start of combat and gains access to more each round(starting at 2, going to 4, IIRC)


5, with the feat.

Not to be harsh, but you really should know the material before you correct people. Crusaders have 5 readied maneuvers, at the beginning of combat they are granted 2 of them. If they take the feat Extra Granted Maneuver they have 3 granted but are still limited to 5 readied.

Not trying to be mean, but 'correcting' someone by posting blatantly incorrect info that is verified by opening the book for 30 seconds is kind of bad form.

[Big Fau]

There's an incomplete Warblade Handbook, a port of Tome of Battle for Dummies, and a 90% completed Crusader handbook over at BG.

[Greenish]

Not to be harsh, but you really should know the material before you correct people. Crusaders have 5 readied maneuvers, at the beginning of combat they are granted 2 of them. If they take the feat Extra Granted Maneuver they have 3 granted but are still limited to 5 readied.Crusaders go up to 5 maneuvers granted at the beginning of the encounter with the feat (at level 20, obviously). I wasn't correcting anyone, I was pointing out the existence of the feat.

[Warlawk]

Crusaders go up to 5 maneuvers granted at the beginning of the encounter with the feat (at level 20, obviously). I wasn't correcting anyone, I was pointing out the existence of the feat.

Sorry, that was extremely unclear from your post. Doubly so since a level 1 crusader has 2/5 for granted/readied. With no clarification whatsoever on your part as to what you were saying, it looked like you were posting in regards to level 1 numbers and botching them.

[Greenish]

Sorry, that was extremely unclear from your post.Really?



The crusader, who can only use a few maneuvers at the start of combat and gains access to more each round(starting at 2, going to 4, IIRC)5, with the feat.

What I meant is pretty clear from the context, I should think. Or maybe it's more clear in my head. Still, no need to rip my throat open for your misunderstanding, is there?

[Heatwizard]

But instead of all that, Crusaders work like this:
Write down all your readied maneuvers on cards. This is your deck. At the start of combat, shuffle and draw three. Discard maneuvers you use, and draw a new one at the beginning of your turn. When you're out of maneuvers to draw at the beginning of your turn, shuffle them all back together and draw another three.

[Lateral]

There's an incomplete Warblade Handbook, a port of Tome of Battle for Dummies, and a 90% completed Crusader handbook over at BG.

There's also handbooks for all three classes here (and I kind of prefer Elfin's Warblade one over the BG Warblade one), but the Swordsage one is far from complete. 'S got all of the maneuvers, though.

[Hazzardevil]

There's also handbooks for all three classes here (and I kind of prefer Elfin's Warblade one over the BG Warblade one), but the Swordsage one is far from complete. 'S got all of the maneuvers, though.

I must admit that the swordsage one I took over is far from complete, I must admit, I know little about the stances and unsure what else to post.

[Draz74]

'S got all of the maneuvers, though.

I don't know whom you should thank for that ... Me? Or the professors who assigned such boring homework that I couldn't stand to work on it one Saturday? :smallcool:

Disclaimer: After I wrote reviews of all the Swordsage maneuvers, some of them got altered by other people's input. Some of the modifications were constructive, but a few were just plain wrong ... and I disavow responsibility for them!

[Big Fau]

There's also handbooks for all three classes here (and I kind of prefer Elfin's Warblade one over the BG Warblade one), but the Swordsage one is far from complete. 'S got all of the maneuvers, though.

It looks like the BG Crusader Handbook got updated just yesterday. The maneuvers and stances are complete on that one. And it's got a handy little summary of when to trade out maneuvers.

Not as organized though, is he?

[Warlawk]

But instead of all that, Crusaders work like this:
Write down all your readied maneuvers on cards. This is your deck. At the start of combat, shuffle and draw three. Discard maneuvers you use, and draw a new one at the beginning of your turn. When you're out of maneuvers to draw at the beginning of your turn, shuffle them all back together and draw another three.

Crusaders draw new maneuvers at the end of the turn, not the beginning. It can be important if you have counters in your list. That way you draw a new card (or refresh all) at the end of your turn and have them available during the enemy turn.

[Divide by Zero]

There's a handbook for pretty much everything. Except Wu Jen. Poor, neglected Wu Jen.