Arcanum to D&D3.5?

[Pigkappa]

I have had this idea for a long time and now it's the right time to implement this.

I've played several times through the game Arcanum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura). A lot of times. The game has an extremely versatile plot and an insane amount of side quests and I've played every possible character and every possible quest options, except maybe for some of the ones which require you to be both really dumb and really evil.

I've always thought that the plot would be wonderful for a D&D campaign. Too bad there aren't any decent version of it for D&D (I've found a few projects online but they were dismissed even before they started).

I'm intentionally posting this thread to the 3.5e section (and not the homebrewing section, though I think it could be moved there if necessary) because I'm not going to try and write down a D&D version of the Arcanum plot; that would require a lot of time and I don't have it.

I'm just going to ask you if you think it would be possible to improvise the events just thinking about them a little before every session (and using the Arcanum maps found at http://mikesrpgcenter.com/arcanum/maps.html).

The technology-magic dichotomy can't be ignored since it's essential for the plot. I would ask the PCs to stay on the magic side (which is the strongest one anyway) and make up different rules for the technology-magic interaction each time (for example, a spell cast on someone holding a gun will just work fine; a spell cast on a train will have a chance failure and the train could be seriously damaged).



I'm aware that the rules would be much more vague than the usual D&D rules which try to cover everything, and some D&D players consider the rules more important than common sense ("I have a spiked chain! Why would you say that I don't have reach just because I'm 3 metres underwater and have a -8 modifier to Swimming?! Where's that rule?").

How would this work out in our opinion?

[Rejakor]

You'd need to write rules for technologist characters. Since nothing in arcanum goes beyond guns, steam engines, and electricity, that should be fine/easy.

As for the magic/technology dichotomy, just assign spell resistance to worked metal or electrically charged devices. Also for people who spend a lot of time working on such.

So a suit of machined plate armour might give SR 8. And a level 8 technologist in machined plate with a backpack full of tech gear holding a repeater rifle would have a SR of 14 (8 plate, +2 lots of gear on, +4 levels). Plus have it stack and scale with size category. So a steam train would require powerful magic to actually affect it. Then, have a bonus to penetrating tech-SR from spell level, so a druid's Flame Strike spell is much more likely to work on a steam train than a druid's Produce Flame spell.


Also keep in mind that the reason arcanum is good is the open world style. That translates very well into DnD, but like any game, as a GM, you need to keep an open mind and be prepared to go off the rails if the PCs do something you didn't expect.

Those SR numbers need to be finessed a bit. A level 8 wizard should have a 60-70% chance of penetrating a level 8 technologist's SR, which should adjust up or down based on the level of the spell the wizard is using.

[NNescio]

Isn't Arcanum based on (a modified and simplified version of) GURPS anyway? Vancian casting also doesn't fit the setting, while the fatigue-based casting in the latter fits perfectly, and there's even a steampunk sourcebook available.

If you want 3.5e 'though, you'll have to come up with the game mechanics and rules for technologists, and make sure they don't lag too far behind casters. The artificer and pathfinder's alchemist might be good bases if you want to modify something into a 'technologist' class.

Technologists would probably have ASF (and possibly DSF) and SR. Spellcasters would probably have a Tech Usage Failure and some resistance to technology based weapons, possibly tied to their caster level.

[Pigkappa]

Why do I need detailed rules for technologists? I'd rather ask the PCs to use the standard classes and stay on the magic side.


I will (rarely) use some NPCs skilled in technology, but they aren't supposed to be used by the PCs. And I could just make up the rules for those few NPCs.


(I'm not familiar with GURPS)

[Rejakor]

A large part of the flavour of the setting is technologia vs magicka.

Removing the possibility of technologist characters is like taking all the shellfish out of a seafood course. Sure, you can do it, but it's not going to be as good.


I'm sure GURPS is a very nice and well balanced system. However each time i've tried to learn it it's been like trying to force a brick through my face. I'd rather spend a couple of hours homebrewing some classes, items, and mechanics to do it in 3.5 than try to learn GURPS again.


Having detailed rules for technologists a) lets players use them, or technology, or both b) lets you make technologia and technologist npcs a lot easier and quicker, especially on the fly (you know what happens when the orc wearing machined plate gets hit by the mage's effulgent effurvation, and it's a lot more setting appropriate than some crap you make up on the fly) c) helps inform the players about the tone and feel of the setting.

If I had the time, i'd even personalize the magic side a bit too, organize the existing DnD spells (just the PHB and maybe SpC ones) into the Arcanum schools and add a vaguely fatigue based casting mechanic onto magic (possibly the one from Unearthed Arcana, it seems nice).

[Pigkappa]

I don't have the time, so the spells won't be changed :P. I'll just nerf some of them as I did in the Ravenloft campaign we just played (which ended with a wipe - ropetricking in castle ravenloft and then fighting to the death when 20 enemies tell you to surrender is stupid).


Implementing technology in the game is difficult because (at least in Arcanum) technology is all about crafting items. So I would have to invent a lot of different technological items, which is quite boring, and the class would be able to craft (and this would require a lot of in-character time) and use them.

The technological characters would also be (mostly) immune to magical healing, which is a really bad problem in D&D. They could be healed by healing salves, but those would cost money unless they spend time harvesting the components.

Tell me if you have any better idea on how to do this...

[Luckmann]

Isn't Arcanum based on (a modified and simplified version of) GURPS anyway? Vancian casting also doesn't fit the setting, while the fatigue-based casting in the latter fits perfectly, and there's even a steampunk sourcebook available.

[...]Yes, Fallout was originally intended to use GURPS, but ended up developing it's own system, called SPECIAL. Arcanum was then supposed to use SPECIAL, but ended up having to retailor it because of licensing issues.

Or something along those lines, anyway. :smalltongue:


Why do I need detailed rules for technologists? [...]

Because first saying "Hey, I've got this awesome setting and a great idea for a campaign. It features heavy steampunk fantasy influences. It's an industrial revolution in a world of magic, with all the problems and benefits that comes along with it. Magic unravels the laws of physics that technology depends on when used, creating a strong dichotomy between magic and technology; A train cannot run through a magical forest. Tech and Magicka are threats to eachother." and then ending the sentence with "Oh, by the way, you'll all have to play arcane spellcasters and all the spells are the same as usual and it's basically basic Greyhawk with guns" is kinda douche move. :smallannoyed:

[Pigkappa]

D&D players are accustomed to the world being too nice with them :(.

I mean, "there are some people who understand very well how technology works, but your characters don't" would be perfectly normal to me. That's true to most people in the real world.

But then, I think you are right. I guess this is also why I liked Ravenloft and they didn't; they want to know how everything works, at least out of character, even if that makes no sense.


So, any help on how to build some decent rules for technology?

[NNescio]

D&D players are accustomed to the world being too nice with them :(.

I mean, "there are some people who understand very well how technology works, but your characters don't" would be perfectly normal to me. That's true to most people in the real world.

But then, I think you are right. I guess this is also why I liked Ravenloft and they didn't; they want to know how everything works, at least out of character, even if that makes no sense.


So, any help on how to build some decent rules for technology?

Artificer, reflavour wands into guns and various other gadgets, and infusions into 'jury-rigging'.

Change some mechanics around so your players won't say "that hand cannon is just a disguised wand of scorching ray."

As for gunslingers, the homebrewed Black Rain discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99529) is a good start.

[Luckmann]

Also, don't forget to take a look at the Pathfinder Alchemist class. Not very Steampunk in itself, but could fit the setting relatively well if refluffed to be more mundane.