General Optimization/Optimization help thread

[Inhuman Bot]

I'd noticed a number of optimization threads floating around, but no recent general ones. So I figure, we might as well have a general optimization thread.

Now, I'm not very good at optimization, so I will request those better at it then I post their general guidelines for various levels of optimization (So, you know, not just star-throwing Hulking Hurlers and such. :smalltongue:)

In addition to that, specific builds that need optimization might as well be rolled into here to help avoid clutter. I am, of course, going to kick off with a request for help with my PvP Lizardfolk Barbarian/Ranger (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=302880). The idea is flawed from an optimization prespective, but are there any items/feats that could help me with the "Beat things up with two greatswords. Also sneak around, and scare people" idea?

[Darth Stabber]

I don't really recall what ape totem does, but 9/10 if you are taking barbarian you would trade the speed boost for pounce via lion totem (CCamp).

Also, how are you dual wielding greatswords?, I didn't see anything on your sheet overcome the crippling weakness of one handing a twohander, nor do I see your attack bonus taking it into consideration. You probably want to drop down to longsword+shortsword, since the damage dice are never the important part. I could suggest the standard PA+shocktrooper+leap attack that is usually suggested when great swords come up, but it is not quite as powerful if your not twohanding one weapon, thou it is still likely worth the investment.

[Leon]

If only you could somehow convince all that they should post it in here instead of clogging up regular threads that ask for help here.

[Greenish]

If only you could somehow convince all that they should post it in here instead of clogging up regular threads that ask for help here.Trying to help someone asking for help is "clogging up threads" now? :smallamused:


As for OP, there isn't a way of dual wielding two-handers that I can recall, without getting extra arms, and even then the penalties are crippling.

If you're not too sold on lizardfolk, though, diopsid from Dragon Compendium are the masters of Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting.


[Edit]: Here's a sample diopsid of the same ECL as your lizardfolk, with most of the same stuff, though he'd TWF with two Large Longswords (damage is the same as medium greatswords', but the penalties are less heavy). It has one flaw like your lizardfolk. No climb speed, sadly, but TWF needs pounce (or something to that effect). Bonus points, since you were going for a more urban character: he can find traps with Survival and smash them to disarm them. :smalltongue:

Diopsid (Dragon Compendium)
STR: 16 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 14
(32 pb, no level-up/magic item bonuses)

1 barbarian1: Extra Rage, Intimidating Rage, (Pounce)
2 barbarian2: Imp. trip
3 ranger1: Knock-Down
4 ranger2: TWF
5 fighter1: OTWF
6 fighter2: ITWF, Imperious Command
7 barbarian3: (Trapkiller)

ACFs: Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (CChamp), Lion Totem Barbarian (UA/SRD), Urban Tracking (UA), Favoured Terrain (Cityscape), Trapkiller Barbarian (Dungeonscape)

[Darth Stabber]

Diopsid is a stronger choice than lizardfolk. You get to dual wield your greatswords at a very small penalty, and you get the benefits of twohanding each sword, making you the best of both worlds when it comes to both PowerAttacking ubercharging, and twfing. Throw in lion totem barbarian for pounce for a good amount of pain delivered on a charge. Despite the -2 dex diopsids are easy to build into twfs, since they ignore any dexterity requirement on any feat with two-weapon in it's name, which is an awesome built in way to reduce mad. You read than right a diopsid can have a 6dex and take any twf feat he wants. The free slowfall and natural armor are just gravy. Diopsid is one of the few races that justifies a +1LA (despite the crappy stat adjustments of +2con,-2dex,-2int).

[Greenish]

You get to dual wield your greatswords at a very small penaltyOversized Two-Weapon Fighting only works with one-handed weapon in offhand, so you wouldn't want dual greatswords.

[Darth Stabber]

Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting only works with one-handed weapon in offhand, so you wouldn't want dual greatswords.

The diopsid entry states that you only take normal penalties for wielding a non-light weapon in your off hand, and while that sucks, you really want twf anyway, which brings it within reasonable bounds. Now you could go with a large short sword in your offhand, and still get strength and a half on both and eschew most of the penalty.

[Inhuman Bot]

Also, how are you dual wielding greatswords?, and etc.

See, this is a symptom of me not knowing DnD rules very well. :smalltongue:

I'm that guy who might take Toughness 12 times because I don't really know what else to do, so I figured collecting general wisdom for making characters usable would be nice.

[Darth Stabber]

If you want a build that makes a rediculous number or attacks per round, but don't want to muck about with TWF, I reccommend a kungfu bear barbarian. It is currently being discussed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201988), at lvl 19 you are getting 10 attacks per round conservatively, and the amount of pain you can deliver on a charge is scary.

If you are just looking for feats that are better than toughness, you could do a lot worse than picking up magic of incarnum and grabbing every incarnum feat you like (assuming you have a CON of at least 13). As far as other feats to take over toughness, it gets really build dependant. Enjoy it, most of us spend entirely too much time agonizing over limited feat selection, and exactly how many feats are needed and how to leverage the right number of fighter levels are needed (and don't get me started about when you need levels in the feat rogue variant, ans psychic warrior)

[Gnaeus]

All my general wisdom for making characters usable is in the guide in my sig.

[Greenish]

The diopsid entry states that you only take normal penalties for wielding a non-light weapon in your off handYeah, so you'd want one-hander and OTWF to bring it down to -2/-2.


Now you could go with a large short sword in your offhand, and still get strength and a half on both and eschew most of the penalty.You can't two-hand a light weapon.