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Maltese
2011-06-05, 01:06 PM
So I was just reading through Start of Darkness again and I noticed a small continuity error that I hadn't noticed before. I'm not pointing this out to be critical but I'd like to see if anyone else has noticed this and if they have any light to shed on the matter. So here we go.

p. 20-21 shows the battle between Xykon and Fyron Puckebuckle which is when Xykon gets his crown. He then has it all the way up to the battle in Lirian's Glade where it falls off before he's incarcerated underground. He then becomes a lich and goes to attack Lirian and suddenly has the crown again. Where was it in the intervening four months?


Its a small point but it struck me as a bit odd on this read-through.

Yuki Akuma
2011-06-05, 01:17 PM
...It was picked up by one of his minions and brought to the cavern with him? Or maybe Lirian returned it 'cause, you know, it's not important at all.

KoboldRevenge
2011-06-05, 02:20 PM
I saw that and just thought he went and picked it up before he killed the Elf.
And I think it might have went this way:

"I knew I left this here!" (Puts it on) "Whoa, it floats above my head now. That increases the badassness by ten!":smallsmile:

Ancalagon
2011-06-05, 02:34 PM
In the same ways as Player Characters never lose their stuff and always have it handy (including... familiars or any other pets that should have been washed away, left behind, burned, ...) the villains also always have their stuff...

Peanut Gallery
2011-06-05, 03:04 PM
I noticed it too. I assumed he picked it up off the ground offscreen when he broke out, but I was disappointed they didn't give it a throw away line atleast.

Dr.Epic
2011-06-05, 03:07 PM
Yeah, I'm sure it's just something like what everyone else said about he forgot to pick it up. Besides, that's not even the biggest continuity issue in SoD. *cough* a certain mage's son *cough*

NerfTW
2011-06-05, 03:09 PM
He picked it up off screen. I really wouldn't call it a continuity error, given that the crown falling off and bouncing is given some detail, then shown a few panels later. And he doesn't have it when he's in the cave, as an old man or a lich. The next time we see him is blasting into Lirian's house. Common sense would say he picked it up before attacking. Otherwise, that would be one heck of an oversight to go out of your way to show him without the crown only to have it show up again for no reason. (And the fact that this was written well into the comic means he wouldn't have had him lose the crown as if he didn't know he was going to draw it later.)


Also, despite his assurances that it's nothing special, this is the second time we have seen that called into question. Notice it falls off as he's losing his magical abilities and bending over, after having just been shown crashing headfirst into the ground without losing it.

Earlier in the comic (real world time wise, not in comic time) we see that it causes it's wearer to appear as evil when detect evil is cast. It's passed off as a side effect of being in Xykon's possession, but now that I'm looking at that scene in SOD, it seems very likely that this crown is not "just a crown".


I noticed it too. I assumed he picked it up off the ground offscreen when he broke out, but I was disappointed they didn't give it a throw away line atleast.

I'm willing to bet now that there's a reason for that.


Yeah, I'm sure it's just something like what everyone else said about he forgot to pick it up. Besides, that's not even the biggest continuity issue in SoD. *cough* a certain mage's son *cough*

That's not a continuity issue. Fyron's son is mentioned in the comic AFTER this book was written and at the printers (#434 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) came out a month before the book did), so it's not like Rich forgot about him or changed his mind. It's very likely that the death mentioned happened elsewhere, or was left out for spoiler reasons. As I've pointed out before, as high level mages, they wouldn't consider simple death something to get worked up about. Eugene doesn't get upset until Fyron is zombified.


Continuity error's and plot holes != plot point yet to be explained.

Dr.Epic
2011-06-05, 03:21 PM
That's not a continuity issue. Fyron's son is mentioned in the comic AFTER this book was written and at the printers (#434 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) came out a month before the book did), so it's not like Rich forgot about him or changed his mind. It's very likely that the death mentioned happened elsewhere, or was left out for spoiler reasons. As I've pointed out before, as high level mages, they wouldn't consider simple death something to get worked up about. Eugene doesn't get upset until Fyron is zombified.


Continuity error's and plot holes != plot point yet to be explained.

Fyron's son was mentioned before the Order blew up Dorukan's Dungeon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)

MoonCat
2011-06-05, 03:25 PM
Yeah, I'm sure it's just something like what everyone else said about he forgot to pick it up. Besides, that's not even the biggest continuity issue in SoD. *cough* a certain mage's son *cough*

What? Who's? Fyron never had a son mentioned!


Fyron's son was mentioned before the Order blew up Dorukan's Dungeon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)

I see nothing there at all about a son.

CaptainIreland
2011-06-05, 03:28 PM
What? Who's? Fyron never had a son mentioned!



I see nothing there at all about a son.

Fifth to last panel. "You killed him and his son in cold blood."

Dr.Epic
2011-06-05, 03:29 PM
I see nothing there at all about a son.

7th panel. Read Roy's last sentence there more carefully.

edit: ninja'd

MoonCat
2011-06-05, 03:32 PM
Fifth to last panel. "You killed him and his son in cold blood."

Fourth to last panel. Oh huh. Then there is a continuity error. Although he could have killed his son outside of the tower's study.

factotum
2011-06-05, 03:44 PM
I think Fyron's son didn't appear in SoD because the scene was already busy enough with Fyron, Xykon and Eugene in it...he was just removed for expediency.

MoonCat
2011-06-05, 03:46 PM
I think Fyron's son didn't appear in SoD because the scene was already busy enough with Fyron, Xykon and Eugene in it...he was just removed for expediency.

Then he must have forgotten he had a forum. Someone was bound to notice that eventually.

FujinAkari
2011-06-05, 03:51 PM
I think Fyron's son was killed at some other point, possibly he also went after Xykon. Roy -believes- that Xykon killed them both that night because that's what Eugene told him, but seeing as the son was mentioned both before and after SoD, it seems like this is a pending plot point rather than an error (Roy's little brother was considered a continuity error for a long time)

Cizak
2011-06-05, 03:52 PM
I think Fyron's son didn't appear in SoD because the scene was already busy enough with Fyron, Xykon and Eugene in it...he was just removed for expediency.

Then why is the son mentioned again in Roy vs. Xykon round 2?

Ancalagon
2011-06-05, 03:54 PM
Besides, that's not even the biggest continuity issue in SoD. *cough* a certain mage's son *cough*

We do not know yet if that is an error or not.

If it is still unmentioned when the comic is over - then it is one.

Gift Jeraff
2011-06-05, 03:57 PM
I think Fyron's son was killed at some other point, possibly he also went after Xykon. Roy -believes- that Xykon killed them both that night because that's what Eugene told him, but seeing as the son was mentioned both before and after SoD, it seems like this is a pending plot point rather than an error (Roy's little brother was considered a continuity error for a long time)I think it was. IIRC, commentary for DCF implies that we'll learn about Roy's baby sibling in the next book, and that would be Julia. I could be wrong; not at home to check the exact wording.

Morquard
2011-06-05, 04:27 PM
I'm not quite sure why people think Roy's brother is a continuity error. Can someone explain.

Also we hear Roy say twice that Xykon killed the son. We never actually see it. Its the same as with V's gender, just because a character sais it does not make it true. Roy could be mistaken, or been misinformed by Eugene. Maybe Eugene wanted to make Xykon look more scary and made up the dead son.

As people (on both sides of the argument) say he has been mentioned waaaaayyy before SoD came out and then around the same time as SoD was released again. Why do people assume the Giant forgot about it in the book, just to remember it weeks later in the online strip and to point it out himself?
If the son would nver have been mentioned again, it would be a continuity error. So its just a mystery.

Dr.Epic
2011-06-05, 04:37 PM
Also we hear Roy say twice that Xykon killed the son. We never actually see it. Its the same as with V's gender, just because a character sais it does not make it true. Roy could be mistaken, or been misinformed by Eugene. Maybe Eugene wanted to make Xykon look more scary and made up the dead son.

Then why? Why would Rich even have Roy say this? What's the point of having Roy misinformed? It seems needlessly pointless and confusing. Surely he would've know how much confusion this would cause.

KillianHawkeye
2011-06-05, 04:47 PM
Then why? Why would Rich even have Roy say this? What's the point of having Roy misinformed? It seems needlessly pointless and confusing. Surely he would've know how much confusion this would cause.

The answer is... we don't know yet. We'll have to wait and see.

FujinAkari
2011-06-05, 05:42 PM
I'm not quite sure why people think Roy's brother is a continuity error. Can someone explain.
.

There was a comic which shows Roy at about 5 years old reaching for the Greenhilt Sword and his mom saying 'not yet' but telling him stories of her father. In that comic we also see a baby which people assumed was Julia.

Unfortunately, Julia is abotu ten years younger than Roy, so people pointed out that the baby COULDN'T be Julia. However, when we got up into LG heaven the Giant fixed this "continuity error" :)

Morquard
2011-06-05, 05:42 PM
Then why? Why would Rich even have Roy say this? What's the point of having Roy misinformed? It seems needlessly pointless and confusing. Surely he would've know how much confusion this would cause.
Or maybe he just thought "Hey, I'm going to be an a** today, I'll leave the son out, refer it in the online strip again, and then I watch how they react on the forum. I'll be laughing over this for years! MUUAHAHAHA!"

MoonCat
2011-06-05, 05:45 PM
Or maybe he just thought "Hey, I'm going to be an a** today, I'll leave the son out, refer it in the online strip again, and then I watch how they react on the forum. I'll be laughing over this for years! MUUAHAHAHA!"

Why would he possibly WANT that sort of speculation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7066430&postcount=17)

NerfTW
2011-06-05, 09:07 PM
Fyron's son was mentioned before the Order blew up Dorukan's Dungeon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)

I know that. I was saying he was mentioned AGAIN, as in, it's not a continuity error or Rich changing his mind, but a plot point being hidden from us. I gave the date the strip was printed versus when SOD came out to show that even while writing SOD, he was still referencing the son in the strip, which means he intentionally left him out for a reason. Like I said "Not showing everything at once" does not equal "continuity error".:smallsigh:



(Roy's little brother was considered a continuity error for a long time)

edit- Whoa. I don't know how I didn't see Fujin's explanation further down in the thread, and realized after a few minutes that it was in reference to Julia's age not being right, not Eric's existence. Epic reading comprehension fail on my part.

Caractacus
2011-06-06, 07:41 AM
We do not know yet if that is an error or not.

If it is still unmentioned when the comic is over - then it is one.

Can you expand on this a bit for me? I mean, I don't see why the son would be in the study in the first place - if he was thirty years younger than his dad, he would still be, what, 35+ years old? Why would he be even in the same building or town?

Couldn't Xykon have killed him elsewhere before or after? If the son wasn't an adventuring class type, then his death would be irrelevant in any case...

I have SoD, but not with me, and I am trying to remember the fight scene - is there any reason to find it peculiar that the son wasn't in the same room?

If there is, then maybe we WILL get a nice plot development element later...:smallcool:

Ancalagon
2011-06-06, 09:27 AM
There is no reason the son was not in the room. At least we know none.

What seems to confuse people (and myself) is the fact the son is - for the story so far - basically useless. We know what the Eugene-Fyron-Xykon relationship is, the thing is explained.
But why drop the line on the son when he is - as far as we know - obviously not needed in the Eugene-Fyron-Relationship? Assuming Rich would not mention something that is completely superflous we assume the story about the son will still get explained in some way.

Without that explanation, it leaves a mystery that was totally unnecessary to introduce in the first place - so my assumption will be it happened due to a mistake (like there was a plan that got changed in a non-ideal way or the son was simply forgotten and Rich did not go back to "fix" it by dropping a line of dialogue that explains what was the son's business in the story).

Nimrod's Son
2011-06-08, 09:46 PM
I came to this thread expecting it to be about Fyron's son, was surprised that it wasn't, and then watched as before my eyes it slowly turned into it anyway. This pleases me. :smallsmile:

Giggling Ghast
2011-06-08, 09:59 PM
We don't see exactly what happens after he bursts out of the ground. Maybe he went straight after the elf who "claimed" his crown and made their internal organs distressingly external.

But since the killing of a minor NPC wasn't strictly necessary for the story, Rich never showed it.

Caractacus
2011-06-10, 01:56 PM
I came to this thread expecting it to be about Fyron's son, was surprised that it wasn't, and then watched as before my eyes it slowly turned into it anyway. This pleases me. :smallsmile:



We don't see exactly what happens after he bursts out of the ground. Maybe he went straight after the elf who "claimed" his crown and made their internal organs distressingly external.

But since the killing of a minor NPC wasn't strictly necessary for the story, Rich never showed it.

Aaaand then swapped immediately back... :smalltongue: