Fighter Suggestions

[Dwug]

Just getting back into D&D after a long hiatus and, since I haven't played much in 3.5, I'm need some fighter help.

I'm looking to do a 2-handed fighter type with a greatsword. The DM is limiting us to 2 classes and a PRC. We can use pretty much any book except Tome of Battle (He's firm on that).

We are starting out at level 1 and here is what I have worked out for my progression so far is a human with the following:

ST 17
DX 14
CN 17
IN 9
WS 12
Ch 8

1. Power Attack, Cleave, WF Greatsword
2. Improved Init
3. Dodge
4. Mobility
6. Spring Attack, Leap Attack

I'm not real familiar with the newer classes in 3.5 or the PRCs so I'm looking for suggestions as to what to work towards.

Thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

[The Blackbird]

Just getting back into D&D after a long hiatus and, since I haven't played much in 3.5, I'm need some fighter help.

I'm looking to do a 2-handed fighter type with a greatsword. The DM is limiting us to 2 classes and a PRC. We can use pretty much any book except Tome of Battle (He's firm on that).

We are starting out at level 1 and here is what I have worked out for my progression so far is a human with the following:

ST 17
DX 14
CN 17
IN 9
WS 12
Ch 8

1. Power Attack, Cleave, WF Greatsword
2. Improved Init
3. Dodge
4. Mobility
6. Spring Attack, Leap Attack

I'm not real familiar with the newer classes in 3.5 or the PRCs so I'm looking for suggestions as to what to work towards.

Thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

If you're going to keep with fighter, then I'd make sure you take weapon spec with your greatsword at 4th level, then Weapon Mastery (slashing) (PHII) at 6.

[Falin]

Well, is he open to homebrew? If so, let me point you to a tome, (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fighter,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)) but of a diffrent kind.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If you're going for a greatsword using brute, replace dodge with weapon focus (greatsword), which is better as it works on more than one opponent, replace mobility with improved bull rush (for prereqs), and replace spring attack with shock trooper.

[Tvtyrant]

I assume you want to make a mundane/melee by your choice of Fighter. If you specifically want to play a Fighter rather then just melee I would suggest you use the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature from Dungeonscape.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I assume you want to make a mundane/melee by your choice of Fighter. If you specifically want to play a Fighter rather then just melee I would suggest you use the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature from Dungeonscape.

That's especially good with my suggested build, as you need Improved Bull Rush for Shock Trooper.

[HappyBlanket]

Shock Trooper (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2614-shock-trooper.html) (Complete Warrior) is a great feat for the Leaping Power Attacker. It lets you trade the Power Attack penalty to BAB for a penalty to Armor Class, which means your attacks will be way more reliable. You'll want it as soon as possible, so trade out one of your earlier feats for Improved Bullrush (a bad feat, but a requirement).

Great Cleave is pretty great, but it's usefulness is reliant on your dm. It's easy for a dm to render it unusable... But a kind dm can make it one of the best feats in your possession.

A one level dip in Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian (Complete Champion) gets you Pounce, which lets you Full Attack on a Charge.

[Tvtyrant]

That's especially good with my suggested build, as you need Improved Bull Rush for Shock Trooper.

I completely agree; now the real question is how to get him free pounce? :P

[Hiro Protagonest]

I completely agree; now the real question is how to get him free pounce? :P

Spirit lion totem barbarian. :P

[Doc Roc]

If you're going to keep with fighter, then I'd make sure you take weapon spec with your greatsword at 4th level, then Weapon Mastery (slashing) (PHII) at 6.

In case the general shape of suggestions hasn't cluebatted you, this is awful advice.

[Tvtyrant]

Spirit lion totem. :P

That's not free though :P If only there was a pounce item; it would make the game so much better.

If your not set on Fighter, you could go the whole ACF Barbarian route; you get a lot more class features when you stack all the different ACFs.

[Dwug]

Thanks for you suggestions so far, I'll read up on the feats/suggestions mentioned.

I'm open to multi-classing and a Prestige Class but wish to stick with melee as opposed to spells.

Our DM is not open to homebrews of any sort.

[Lateral]

Two classes and a PrC? /Fighter 6/Barbarian X.

Be a Goliath (Races of Stone), take the Spirit Lion Totem alternate class feature (Complete Champion; not to be confused with the one from UA) to replace the Barbarian's Fast Movement with Pounce;

Take Dungeoncrasher as aforementioned;

Take Power Attack (PHB), Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer), Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior), and Knockback (Races of Stone).

From here, you've pretty much got it. Smash enemies into little bits and send them flying into walls- if you also take the Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF (Unearthed Arcana; not to be confused with the one from CC) and take Knock-Down, you're hitting people, knocking them down and slamming them into the ground, and sending them flying into walls. Have fun.

You don't have to go into a prestige class, but if you want to it can help. Runescarred Berserker is a nice barbarian prestige class to help out with versatility; it gives you a few spells (sort of; they're magic scars you scribe in your skin) and advances rage.

[HappyBlanket]

That's not free though :P If only there was a pounce item; it would make the game so much better.

If your not set on Fighter, you could go the whole ACF Barbarian route; you get a lot more class features when you stack all the different ACFs.

You should be able to take it as a Fighter Bonus Feat :P

As for prestige classes... Hm. I hear Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) getting thrown around a bunch, so that might be worth your time. But, as the name implies, I'm pretty sure it requires you to change your weapon.

[Big Fau]

Dump Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. Take Travel Devotion (CC) so you can Charge every round, then work your way towards Combat Brute (CW). Then take multiple instances of Travel Devotion to get more daily uses out of it.

[Dwug]

Thanks Lateral, Barbarian is a possibility.

Any other suggestions as to class. I picked fighter as it would be easier to get into after so long since my last game but I'm not necessarily wed to the class.

[Tvtyrant]

Other then a lot of pseudo-casters not really. There aren't very many pure mundane base classes, mostly because there are so few niches or cliches to fill.

A Totemist would be much more variable and you would be binding monster parts to yourself rather than casting spells.

[Leon]

You should be able to take it as a Fighter Bonus Feat :P

As for prestige classes... Hm. I hear Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) getting thrown around a bunch, so that might be worth your time. But, as the name implies, I'm pretty sure it requires you to change your weapon.

Jovar springs to mind as a replacement exotic weapon that is similar or Mercurial Greatsword.

[ericgrau]

Improved initiative is actually a bit overhyped. At least grab weapon focus for more damage per combat. Cleave could likewise be replaced with weapon specialization unless you fight lots of mooks that are easy to 1 shot.

If he's playing a fighter with mostly core feats and ToB banned, that should be a red flag that shock trooper is way too much for his gaming group. Don't break the game with it (relative to your party members), unless your party tends to do use the same level of feats.

Spring attack gets a lot of hate since it keeps you from full attacking, but it also keeps your foe from full attacking. Especially since you have leap attack. In a decent sized party with other melee it often gets even better tactically. I've seen a semi-fragile and/or wounded fighter plink a foe then jump back to safety where going at him would provoke an AoO from an ally.

Basically what it boils down to is don't play a 100+ charging damage dealer who just attacks then full attacks every round like many people tell every melee build to do. It's boring, and it can and does ruin the game for many people. Remove the two weak feats I mentioned b/c they're weak (in your situation) but stick with the theme you selected.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Improved initiative is actually a bit overhyped. At least grab weapon focus for more damage per combat. Cleave could likewise be replaced with weapon specialization unless you fight lots of mooks that are easy to 1 shot.

If he's playing a fighter with mostly core feats and ToB banned, that should be a red flag that shock trooper is way too much for his gaming group. Don't break the game with it (relative to your party members), unless your party tends to do use the same level of feats.

Spring attack gets a lot of hate since it keeps you from full attacking, but it also keeps your foe from full attacking. Especially since you have leap attack. In a decent sized party with other melee it often gets even better tactically. I've seen semi-fragile fighters plink a foe then jump back to safety where going at him would provoke an AoO from an ally.

Basically what it boils down to is don't play a 100+ charging damage dealer who just attacks then full attacks every round like many people tell every melee build to do. It's boring, and it can and does ruin the game for many people. Remove the two weak feats I mentioned b/c they're weak (in your situation) but stick with the theme you selected.

How do you know cleave is weak in his situation? And besides, cleave is good. If you're facing at least two opponents, you'll often focus on only taking down one, and if the other opponent is adjacent to you when you do so...

Also, you don't know his group's level of optimization. Unless stated, everyone on the playground just goes for the most optimized build possible.

[ericgrau]

I don't know cleave is weak in his situation, hence the caveat I noted. If that caveat fits, then he should get cleave. Against foes of similar number to the party it's weak though, which is most of the time. Likewise shocktrooper is way over the top for most casual gaming groups. It's highly likely that it will break the game. It's obvious from his post that the DM sets at least some limitations, which was the red flag.

[Tvtyrant]

I don't know cleave is weak in his situation, hence the caveat I noted. If that caveat fits, then he should get cleave. Against foes of similar number to the party it's weak though, which is most of the time.

Unless he uses a Brutal Surge Whip on a Dungeoncrasher, letting him hit someone, drop them, hit someone else, drop them, and just infuriate the rest of the group :P

[HappyBlanket]

If he's playing a fighter with mostly core feats and ToB banned, that should be a red flag that shock trooper is way too much for his gaming group. Don't break the game with it (relative to your party members), unless your party tends to do use the same level of feats.


Or the group could just dislike ToB on principal. For all we know, the other players are Cloistered Clerics and Druids.

In any case, yeah, ericgrau is giving pretty good advice; don't piss off the other players. But that's more of a general rule than anything.

[Hirax]

Show them you don't need no stinkin' ToB to be powerful, with the hopes that it will wake them up and realize how stupid it is to ban it.

Be a goliath (Races of Stone) dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) for +4 con, +4 str, and -4 dex

barbarian1*/fighter8/occult hunter5 (Complete Warrior)
*pounce (Complete Champion ACF)+whirling frenzy (Unearthed Arcana)

Feats:
1: power attack
F1 imp bull rush
F2: dungeon crasher (Dungeonscape ACF, replaces feat, bonus damage when you bull rush an enemy)
3: extra rage (Complete Warrior)
F4: knockback (Races of Stone, free bull rush attempt against foe hit by power attack, but you don't move with enemy as name implies)
6: shock trooper (Complete Warrior, when you power attack on a charge, penalty is to your AC instead of attack bonus - obscenely good)
F6: Imp. initiative (required for occult hunter)
9: rampaging bull rush (Races of Stone, allow you to trip foes you just bull rushed)
F8: weapon focus (required for occult hunter)
12: Cleave?

Use a piercing weapon. When charging, dragonborn can dive if they're flying, and the charge does double damage if they use a piercing weapon. Put that together with shock trooper, power attack, and the valorous weapon enchantment (Unapproachable East), and you'll be doing lots of damage to anything within your flying range. With pounce you'll be able to make a full attack on a charge. Being in a whirling frenzy grants you an extra attack for the round, and I'd strongly recommend boots of haste for yet another attack in the round.

Here's an example of you entering combat at 7th level, with all the named features
Activate boots of haste (free action)
You now have a 60' fly speed, use it to do a diving charge against a foe in range.
Thanks to pounce, you get to make a full attack of 4 attacks (2 from high BAB, 1 from haste, 1 from whirling frenzy).
Each hit will do (X+Y*1.5+Z*2)2
X=weapon damage (dice + enhancement bonus)
Y=strength mod
Z=BAB put toward power attack
I'll go ahead and plug in some arbitrary variables for X and Y, and your full BAB for Z, since it doesn't penalize your to-hit due to shock trooper.
(6+8*1.5+7*2)2=64
If you use a valorous weapon it becomes: (6+8*1.5+7*2)3=96
After each hit you can attempt a bull rush attempt with a very large bonus thanks to your power attacking. If it's successful you'll send the foe, flying backwards, knock them prone, and doe yet more damage if they hit a wall.

[Greenish]

That's not free though :P If only there was a pounce item; it would make the game so much better.Psionic Tattoo of Psionic Lion's Pounce. 300 gp for the ability to Pounce isn't that bad.

Of course, some DM's might rule that Psionic Lion's Pounce doesn't actually have duration: instantaneous. :smalltongue:



I hear Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) getting thrown around a bunch, so that might be worth your time.Eh, it has a few uses, but for a bog standard two-hander it's not really worth it.


Spring attack gets a lot of hate since it keeps you from full attacking, but it also keeps your foe from full attacking. Especially since you have leap attack.How does Leap Attack help Spring Attack?

[Tvtyrant]

Psionic Tattoo of Psionic Lion's Pounce. 300 gp for the ability to Pounce isn't that bad.

Of course, some DM's might rule that Psionic Lion's Pounce doesn't actually have duration: instantaneous. :smalltongue:

Well done Greenish! My god would I hate DMing that... :smalltongue:

[marcielle]

I lol everytime DMs ban ToB. Dunno why they bother. Anybody who really wants to break your game just goes wizard or druid :smallbiggrin:
Anyways, if you wanna crash through walls and crash through enemies, if you wanna knock someone off their feet then throw them to knock the next guy off their feet, if you wanna play dominoes with most CR appropriate creatures then this is all you need : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82038

If you are willing to go gishfish the spell Whirling Blade from Complete Arcane can be serious fun. Credit goes to Keld Denar for this.

Whirling Blade + Power Attack + Knockback + Dungeoncrasher means you can fling people across the room...from across the room. Its all kinds of silly and FUN!