Rogue Weapon Cheese

[WebTiefling]

I'm new to D&D (though not to RPing) and I'm being introduced using a purposefully over-the-top game. I just got a Wish and I'm looking for good ideas on how to use it. The DM isn't going to screw me on this, and this is being granted by an Efreet that REALLY owes me big time and is favorably inclined to me. (he won't grant my wish on the bottom of the ocean in the middle of a pod of kraken)

I've seen it suggested on various boards that a safe wish is for an increase for a stat. Screw safe!

I want the +5 Keen Shocking Stunning Enervating Vampiric Vorpal Rapier made of a Diety's Petrified Blood that strikes them with an extra 10d10 Negative Energy damage and gives me Ethereal Greater Invisibility. :smallbiggrin:

(or something along those lines - I may have exaggerated a bit, and I'm not entirely sure some of those things actually exist :smallsmile:)

Since this is a 'high-powered' campaign I figure I can get away with a somewhat oversized request. However, I don't really know what to request. (I only have the d20srd for information)

What would be an impressively powerful (perhaps somewhat cheesy) weapon for a Rogue 9?

[Seharvepernfan]

Wish can only create up to 10000gp worth of items, i believe.

[Luckmann]

Wish can only create up to 10000gp worth of items, i believe.Really? 10,000 sounds a bit low.

[ILM]

Do you only have the SRD, or are you allowed stuff only from the SRD? Depending on how your character's built, the most powerful thing I can think of is a Manyfang Dagger from Serpent Kingdoms. 22k gp if memory serves, deals quadruple damage on every hit (and bonuses that aren't extra dice get multiplied too). Wheter it can be further enchanted is up for debate; rules in the Magic Item Compendium suggest to me that it should, but you should really check with your DM.

If we're talking SRD only, your options are more narrow.

[WebTiefling]

Ouch! That blows! But, I'm in 3.5 version. According to the SRD, the relevant rule is:

Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

It sets a limit on the value of the nonmagical items, but not on the magic item. I'm still hoping it's possible to get the weapon made of Uberkickassium.

[Flickerdart]

You need to remember that Wish isn't all-powerful. An effect outside its power only gets partial fulfillment not because of malicious intent but because it's all the spell is capable of. One thing it can't do for sure is create Epic magic items, which a sword with more than +10 of modifiers is. So while you might be able to squeeze out a +5 rapier with +5 of enchantments on it (or better, a +1 rapier with +9 of enchantments) anything beyond that is a crapshoot.
Also, beware: Wish can emulate spells, and the magic of the spell might decide that Greater Magic Weapon is all it can do, so while you might get a powerful weapon, it'll be gone in a matter of hours. Make sure to specify you want the thing to last.

[WebTiefling]

Do you only have the SRD, or are you allowed stuff only from the SRD?

Not just from the SRD, though that's all I have access to view. (I don't own any D&D books myself) I think it would be accepted to have me design my own weapon. (though he probably would nix any truly nutty examples like what I first mentioned.)

[WebTiefling]

You need to remember that Wish isn't all-powerful. An effect outside its power only gets partial fulfillment not because of malicious intent but because it's all the spell is capable of. One thing it can't do for sure is create Epic magic items, which a sword with more than +10 of modifiers is. So while you might be able to squeeze out a +5 rapier with +5 of enchantments on it (or better, a +1 rapier with +9 of enchantments) anything beyond that is a crapshoot.
Also, beware: Wish can emulate spells, and the magic of the spell might decide that Greater Magic Weapon is all it can do, so while you might get a powerful weapon, it'll be gone in a matter of hours. Make sure to specify you want the thing to last.

Aha! That's exactly the sort of stuff I should know that isn't in the SRD description! Any suggestions on the best sort of +1 rapier with +9 enchantments would be?

[Eldest]

Depends: what is your charector built to do? Keen is a good ability, in my opinion (doubled crit range for +1).

[WebTiefling]

Depends: what is your charector built to do? Keen is a good ability, in my opinion (doubled crit range for +1).

He's a fairly standard Rogue in that he does a lot of the Spotting, Searching, and Trap-handling for the party. Plenty of sneaking around too. It's valuable to the party and I'm very good at it.

BUT... I am suffering from Damage Envy - I usually get my Sneak Attack in, and if the fight doesn't last too much longer, I can manage to get a second Sneak Attack. (three to five rounds is about average for our fights) I'm still putting out a small amount of damage compared to the others.

That's why I'm looking for a weapon to really help me out with the fighting part. I want to grab a couple levels of Shadowdancer, which will lower my Sneak Attack totals, and so a really awesome weapon is sounding great to me right now.

[Darrin]

Aha! That's exactly the sort of stuff I should know that isn't in the SRD description! Any suggestions on the best sort of +1 rapier with +9 enchantments would be?

Materials/Templates:
+5000 GP, Starmetal (Complete Arcane p. 141, adamantine + 1d6 damage vs. outsiders/elementals/extraplanars)
+2000 GP, Everbright (MIC p. 34, immune to acid damage, blinding flash 2/day)
+1000 GP, Pitspawned (DMGII p. 278, +2 to confirm criticals)
+600 GP, Dwarvencraft (Races of Stone p. 159, hardness +2, hp +10, +2 on saves)

Enhancements:
+3, Speed (DMG)
+2, Wounding (DMG)
+2, Torturous (Ghostwalk p. 64, Fort save DC 17 vs. stunned for 1 round on every hit)
+1, Keen (DMG)
+1, Whirling (MIC p. 46)

Plus:
+100000 GP, Displacement (OA p. 124, displacement effect whenever held)
+50000 GP, Blurring (OA p. 124, blur effect whenever held)
+38500 GP, Doomwarding (PGtF p. 120, 7 one-shot charges, 1 chg = extra attack or reroll)
+32400 GP, Passage (OA p. 127, plane shift 1/day)
+30000 GP, Prismatic Burst (MIC p. 40, crit = prismatic ray effect)
+20000 GP, Initiative (OA p. 126, +2 Init bonus)
+18000 GP, Agility (OA p. 124, +6 bonus on Ref saves)
+13750 GP, Jumping (MoF p. 130, +30 bonus on Jump check every other round)
+8000 GP, Vanishing (MIC p. 45, teleport 1/day)
+6000 GP, Spellblade (PGtF p. 120, immune to/redirect one targeted spell)
+5000 GP, Shadowstrike (MIC p. 43, 1/day +5 reach, target denied Dex)
+5000 GP, Sizing (MIC p. 43, add Strongarm Bracers for 6000 GP)
+5000 GP, Slow Burst (MIC p. 43, crit = save vs. slow)
+4800 GP, Finder (FR Underdark p. 69, +5 bonus on Search/Spot/Survival while underground)
+4000 GP, Silent Moves (OA p. 127, +10 bonus on Move Silently checks)
+2000 GP, Caustic Surge (DMGII p. 255, swift action for +2d6 acid damage)
+2000 GP, Flaming Surge (DMGII p. 258, swift action for +2d6 fire damage)
+2000 GP, Icy Surge (DMGII p. 259, swift action for +2d6 cold damage))
+2000 GP, Lightning Surge (DMGII p. 260, swift action for +2d6 electricity damage)
+2000 GP, Sudden Stunning (DMGII p. 261, swift action for Ref save vs. 1d4+1 rounds of stun)
+1280 GP, Balance (OA p. 124, +8 bonus on Balance checks)

(Note: any item with a market price over 200000 GP may be considered "epic" or an artifact.)

[WebTiefling]

Wow. Um, yeah! There's not a chance in hell that my DM would let me get everything there, but that is an awesome list of things from which to pick!!

(What's the "MIC"? I can't find the things in the "MIC" on the SRD to find out how they work.)

Quick question - does the Speed bonus mean that if I am able to get a Full Attack for my Sneak Attack, I get two Sneak Attacks in a row that round? That would be awesome! The other thing I've seen is a Ring of Blinking, which would basically get me critical hits almost every round - I want to add that onto the weapon.

Hmmm, "just" Displacement + Blurring + Blinking + Speed gives two Sneak Attacks every round, with a possibility of an approximately 20% chance of getting hit? (not to mention the other attributes!) :smalltongue:

I suspect my DM is gonna punch me when I wish for something like this!

[Kylarra]

I was kind of hoping for a rogue that used cheese as a weapon.


MIC is magic item compendium.

[riddles]

You don't need a kickass weapon, you need something that will give you sneak attack all the time - ring of improved invisibility, with, say. 5 uses per day.

[marcielle]

I suspect my DM is gonna punch me when I wish for something like this!

Do you have a wizard? If you have a good wizard in your party just argue that as levels go up everyone else will become underpowered in comparison to him. Argument works with sorcerors too, but too a lesser extent.

[Keld Denar]

There is a lot wrong with this post...lets see if I can help

Quick question - does the Speed bonus mean that if I am able to get a Full Attack for my Sneak Attack, I get two Sneak Attacks in a row that round? That would be awesome! The other thing I've seen is a Ring of Blinking, which would basically get me critical hits almost every round - I want to add that onto the weapon.
Sneak attack is not limited on a "per round" basis. It applies to every attack that qualifies. If you are flanking, and you have 30 attacks in a round, you get SA on all 30. Speed would indeed give you an extra attack, and if you qualify for SA on that attack, you would indeed get extra dice. Blinking doesn't affect your critical hit, but I'm guessing you ment sneak attack there? If so, then yes, the Blinking condition means that you strike as if invisible, which means you can SA anything that can'd properly defend against invisible foes (anyone who doesn't have BlindSIGHT or Uncanny Dodge).

Hmmm, "just" Displacement + Blurring + Blinking + Speed gives two Sneak Attacks every round, with a possibility of an approximately 20% chance of getting hit? (not to mention the other attributes!) :smalltongue:
Multiple sources of miss chance don't stack. Displacement is 50%, Blur is 20%, and Blinking is 20-50% conditionally. Only the highest would apply. That said, only Blinking allows you to attack as if you were invisible. Displacement and Blur will not automatically allow you to SA people. Greater Invis and Blinking do. Do note that Blinking gives YOU a 20% miss chance as well, unless you have some way of unerringly striking from the ethereal plane to the material, or some other method of negating the miss chance such as from Pierce Magical Concealment.

I suspect my DM is gonna punch me when I wish for something like this!
Generally, its a wise choice to discuss this with your DM. If you spring the wish on him in game, he's either gonna say "no", or he'll grant it to you, then immediately take it away in a somewhat douchey manner. It would completely skew his ability to balance the game if you have an uber weapon of one-shottingness. Instead, mention that you'd like to spend your wish on something neat, and then bargain with him on what would be good, without being too good. You are a 9th level character, I'd probably give you something that has a +4 to +5 equivalent TOTAL, given that its an extraordinary item you are getting from a wish that I'm guessing you legitimately earned. Asking for a 200,000g weapon is probably gonna end you up with nothing.

[Telonius]

I'd suggest you take a step back and realize what it is you're asking for.

Even with a super-mega-powerful-artifact-weapon of DOOM!, you're still a 9th-level character. A 9th-level character who's carrying something worth half a city in his backpack. If word of that ever gets out to the local thieves' guild, you won't have a minute's peace, ever, until either the thing has been taken from you, or you've slain all your adversaries.

[CTrees]

I'd suggest you take a step back and realize what it is you're asking for.

Even with a super-mega-powerful-artifact-weapon of DOOM!, you're still a 9th-level character. A 9th-level character who's carrying something worth half a city in his backpack. If word of that ever gets out to the local thieves' guild, you won't have a minute's peace, ever, until either the thing has been taken from you, or you've slain all your adversaries.

Hell, you're ninth level. A few bad rolls against an advanced ooze and you'll be crying in your beer. High level, I'd say go big on the ridiculous items. Ninth level... myself, being able to push things further than a stat boost? I'd ask for some insane template. Umbral would be nice (that's the one that gives HiPS, right?), but you could do better. I'm away from my books at the moment, but there's a lot of tasty template you could try to grab.

[Keld Denar]

Umbral would be nice (that's the one that gives HiPS, right?)

Dark is in ToM, and is a +1 LA template that gives HiPS and a move speed boost.

Shadow is in Lords of Madness and is a +2 LA, gives HiPS, and a MUCH bigger move speed bonus. I'd ask if your wish can give you either for free.

If neither of those fly, Wish for a Collar of Umbral Metamorphasis. Takes up your neck slot, but the continuous version gives you the Dark template all the time. Unlike gaining templates, getting the item is something a Wish can legitimately give you, and isn't rediculously out of your price range like a 200,000g rapier would be.

[dextercorvia]

I'd personally ask for a Ring of Blinking. That's in line with what a wish would normally grant in wealth, and it would allow you to Sneak Attack every round against most foes.

The Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis will get you the Dark Template (not the good one, but hey.) That would boost your hiding quite a bit, which in turn would help your Sneak attacking.

Also, listen to what Keld said. I hear he is an oracle of wisdom.

[CTrees]

Been a long time since I've looked for that template, but yeah, Dark was what I was thinking. My group doesn't allow me to take templates anymore as a PC, after one particular character I made...

As a rogue? I'd wish for the Shadow template (at minimum, admittedly, though it's a nice one). It's only a +2LA. Nice and easy to roleplay that, even! Paragon of theify-ness, and all that.

[WebTiefling]

Oh blast it all. Now, you all just makin' me indecisive.

I will run this by the DM beforehand. He might just punch me anyway. :smallsmile:

I think I'll stick with the weapon since I'm trying to overcome my Damage Envy insecurities, but I'll definitely prepare a semi "reasonable" option for him too. Maybe if I show him the ultimately maxed-out weapon, he'll be more amenable to the slightly less ostentatious (though still nuts) weapon option! I'll definitely try to keep on the Blinking part of the weapon, though I'll make sure to get something on there to let me avoid having that 20% miss chance when attacking. (suggestions?)

The Shadow template is really tempting, though. Especially since I'm planning on getting a level or four or Shadowdancer - it works well with my character concept, and as much as I'm trying to nerf a weapon at the moment, I tend to be an in-character player.

Decisions, decisions!

[WebTiefling]

Been a long time since I've looked for that template, but yeah, Dark was what I was thinking. My group doesn't allow me to take templates anymore as a PC, after one particular character I made...

As a rogue? I'd wish for the Shadow template (at minimum, admittedly, though it's a nice one). It's only a +2LA. Nice and easy to roleplay that, even! Paragon of theify-ness, and all that.

So dare I ask what it was that got your PCs banned from templates?

[HalfDragonCube]

So dare I ask what it was that got your PCs banned from templates?

Chances are it was something like me.

[CTrees]

As an ECL 5, bashy sort of full plate fighter, it took a Froghemoth in a lake to take me down, and I still finished it off, from the inside (was swallowed whole). The fact that we were in a lake meant I didn't survive. And actually... if, earlier in the fight, I hadn't rolled a natural one on a swim check* (which enabled me to be eaten), I probably would have killed it and survived. When I brought up templates for my replacement character... it was rather vocally disallowed.

This is the same group that has a (PF) paladin/inquisitor/holy vindicator as its current top damage dealer (I'm playing a buff/debuff wizard now, and everyone but the DM is much more appreciative).

This will come back to bite them when I take over DMing for a campaign, though! There will be an antagonist party, and templates will abound! (lawful good, so they're just antagonists to our generally good party, not villains. Yes, I plan on trying to break the Paladin's brain (defenseless human the party was hired to rescue, whose acts were capital crimes to antagonist party, but not to the PC party... should be fun roleplay))

*If at all possible, I *always* make sure I have positive swim, climb and acrobatics checks, even in full plate.

[WebTiefling]

Daaaang! CTrees, I wanna come game with y'all! My DM rocks, but that sounds like a campaign full of mind-bending goodness!

(I cut my RPing teeth on White Wolf, so I have predilections toward the morally twisted campaigns!)