Dealing with Status Effects

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, I gots me a question for everyone:

I'm looking for inexpensive means of negating status effects. Particularly Save or Lose effects.

Here's the catch: I'm a *BARD*. And I'm not planning on getting a whole lot of spells, either. The GM doesn't like high-end spells, I don't much blame him, so by GM Fiat, there ARE no spells higher than 6th level. So don't bother with the whole 'you should go Sublime Chord', because it's completely worthless to me.

Yes, Remove Curse and Neutralize Poison are Bard spells. However, considering how few spells known I get, and how few spells per day I get, it seems a waste to blow them on that. It still won't counter Disease or negative levels or ability damage or drain or much else like this.

I'm looking at Seeker of the Song for the additional healing, but that won't come on-line until like character level 15 or something. But Subsonics and Dual Song are very attractive.

I dipped a level of Dragon Shaman for Vigor, Power, and Senses auras. The first for free healing up to 1/2 max hp and auto-stabilize, the second for more damage, and the third for untyped bonuses to Initiative. I only dipped one level because I have Dragontouched feat, which means they automatically go up based on character level anyways, and I plan on getting Double Draconic Aura as soon as I meet the prerequisites, so I can have both Power and Senses up most of the time, and using Vigor whenever it is necessary.

Without DMM Persist, Vigor doesn't do me a whole lot of good, I don't think, so if anyone has any ideas for 'topping off' healing, I'm all ears. And I need to find a way to remove status ailments. I don't want more Dragon Shaman, because it's generally made of Fail, and I'm doing some IC optimization with my character (no Exalted, but still up to a +5 at 6th level). Besides, it would take 6 levels of Dragon Shaman for Touch of Vitality, and 11 for it to negate status conditions, which is really NOT worth it.

So... yea. If you have any ideas for healing status conditions, and more healing ability in general, as a Bard, I'm all ears.

[ericgrau]

Easy. Pack lots of scrolls. They're cheap. In fact I'd never learn a spell I don't use every day, get scrolls instead. Delay poison is cheaper than neutralize poison and works almost as well. It buys you time to get into town and hire an NPC to neutralize poison for 5x3x10 = 150 gp. Song of freedom can break curses. If you're not going to take 12 levels of bard then you can likewise buy a scroll or two, since fortunately curses tend to be pretty rare. Don't forget the obligatory cure light wounds wand for between battle healing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Easy. Pack lots of scrolls. They're cheap. In fact I'd never learn a spell I don't use every day, get scrolls instead. Delay poison is cheaper than neutralize poison and works almost as well. It buys you time to get into town and hire an NPC to neutralize poison for 5x3x10 = 150 gp. Song of freedom can break curses. If you're not going to take 12 levels of bard then you can likewise buy a scroll or two, since fortunately curses tend to be pretty rare. Don't forget the obligatory cure light wounds wand for between battle healing.

That's poison and curses... fine. What about the other bajillion status effects? Nauseated, Frightened, Disease, negative levels, stat damage/drain...

And no, I'm not going to go 12 levels of Bard, regardless of whatever else happens.

I've already got a Belt of Healing for between battle healing which is somewhat more efficient on charges, as long as I don't go crazy with it.

[Keld Denar]

Pancea (SpC) is a 4th level spell that is basically Heal, minus the HP gain. It clears like, 99% of all status ailments.

As far as you using it...I'm not sure how you'd finagle that, but you are crafty enough to figure something out, right?

[KoboldCleric]

Combat medic can net you heal as a fifth level spell. I'm afb at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it gets you the ability to cure minor status effects as well in the earlier levels ... I can check when I get home if no one beats me to it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Combat medic can net you heal as a fifth level spell. I'm afb at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it gets you the ability to cure minor status effects as well in the earlier levels ... I can check when I get home if no one beats me to it.

Combat Medic, from Heroes of Battle, most certainly does NOT net you Heal as a 5th level spell. It allows you to spontaneously cast Heal by blowing a 6th level spell slot. The other class abilities are made of complete fail, since my Wisdom bonus is crap, and it requires two feats I don't have, and don't want.

Mind you, even being able to spontaneously cast Heal spells would be pretty nice, don't get me wrong, but I won't be able to get it until like 17th level, which pretty much means 'never' in this campaign.

Pancea is a wonderful spell, I wish I could get access to it. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to do it.

[DegenPaladin]

Just a suggestion, but what about dipping into Tome of Battle to pick up Iron Heart Surge?

[Gnaeus]

Panacea is a wonderful spell, I wish I could get access to it. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to do it.

UMD a wand of panacea? 25 charges would be good, and 10 would be ok.

What about a wand of Resurgence? Giving party members another save (especially if you can buff their saves first) could fix many of the problems for ongoing spell effects.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Just a suggestion, but what about dipping into Tome of Battle to pick up Iron Heart Surge?

IHS is self-only. I'm not worried about myself. It's the rest of the party I'm worried about.



UMD a wand of panacea? 25 charges would be good, and 10 would be ok.

What about a wand of Resurgence? Giving party members another save (especially if you can buff their saves first) could fix many of the problems for ongoing spell effects.

Skills are already tight, due to a 32 point build and a need to focus on Charisma. I don't have the points to spend on UMD.

Resurgence sounds like a good idea, though. Or it would if it wasn't a Cleric/Paladin/Blackguard only spell...

[dextercorvia]

How does the auto stabilize work if you lose the aura when you fall unconscious?

Favored of the Martyr makes a good spell for this. You'll still need Restoration to handle negative levels.

[cZak]

since my Wisdom bonus is crap
ShneekeyTheLost

This is unfortunate, but can you swap it with maybe Strength (a usually unnecessary bard stat...)?

One suggestion is the UA alt class Divine Bard6 and Prc Paladin3.
Yea, it increases MAD, and would require your DM waving the 'Turn undead' req for PrC Paladin.

- Get paladin spells which Lsr restoration is 1st level.
- Devoted Performer feat (CAdv107) Bard & Paladin levels stack for Music/ day & Smite.
- Lyric spell (CAdv113) allows using bardic music to cast spells; 1+ spell lvl = bardic music uses
- PrC Paladin Lay on Hands (LoH) is (Pal lvl + 3) x Chr mod/ day.
- Caduceus Bracers (MIC) give you the swap of Lay on hands for 'conditional effects'; fatigue, sickened, etc...
- Healing hymn (CChamp ACF Fascinate) boosts all healing spells by your perform ranks.
With a harmonizing weapon (+1 MIC) to take over your bardic music for up to 1 minute, you can start a 2nd bard music effect; Inspire courage, etc...

[dextercorvia]

The Spontaneous Healer feat only requires you to know one Cure Wounds spell, and then you may swap out spells for Cure Wounds spells from your class spell list. Depending on how crappy your Wisdom is, this may not be worthwhile.

[Greenish]

How does the auto stabilize work if you lose the aura when you fall unconscious?It works by someone else doing the falling unconscious bit.

[Gnaeus]

IHS is self-only. I'm not worried about myself. It's the rest of the party I'm worried about.

Resurgence sounds like a good idea, though. Or it would if it wasn't a Cleric/Paladin/Blackguard only spell...

Yeah, I was thinking UMD for it as well. :-(.

How bad exactly is your wisdom? Is retraining feats possible? A Chameleon dip might help you if you could qualify.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How does the auto stabilize work if you lose the aura when you fall unconscious?

It heals allies every round, which stabilizes them. Again, not worried so much about myself as everyone else. And how the hell do I get Favor of the Martyr?


This is unfortunate, but can you swap it with maybe Strength (a usually unnecessary bard stat...)? My Strength is a 10, same as my Wis.


One suggestion is the UA[ alt class Divine Bard6 and Prc Paladin3.
Yea, it increases MAD, and would require your DM waving the 'Turn undead' req for PrC Paladin.Bolded is *NOT* going to happen.


- Get paladin spells which Lsr restoration is 1st level.
- Devoted Performer feat (CAdv107) Bard & Paladin levels stack for Music/ day & Smite.
- PrC Paladin Lay on Hands (LoH) is (Pal lvl + 3) x Chr mod/ day.
- Caduceus Bracers (MIC) give you the swap of Lay on hands for 'conditional effects'; fatigue, sickened, etc...
- Healing hymn (CChamp ACF Fascinate) boosts all healing spells by your perform ranks.
With a harmonizing weapon (+1 MIC) to take over your bardic music for up to 1 minute, you can start a 2nd bard music effect; Inspire courage, etc...If I was going to do that, I'd go into Holy Liberator, which also casts off of the Paladin spell list... but he doesn't get LoH, which means Caduceus Bracers are pointless.

Healing Hymn does not do what you think it does. It boosts healing spells done while my song is going. There's a little problem about casting while singing, and an even bigger problem in that my healing spells suck. The bonus is very minor, and not very combat effective since the song needs to be going for at least 5 rounds before it kicks in...

Harmonizing is on my 'to purchase' list, but out of the WBL of my character currently.

[dextercorvia]

It works by someone else doing the falling unconscious bit.

That makes more sense.

A 1 level Chameleon dip gets you Healing Lorecall or Guidance of the Avatar. The latter would make you auto succeed on a UMD check to activate a wand.

Edit: Not with a 10 in Wisdom though. Nevermind.

[dextercorvia]

And how the hell do I get Favor of the Martyr?

Arcane Preparation + 2 level dip in Wyrm Wizard. Psi analogous reading of Extra Spell feat.



Most of the suggestions have been shot down due to low wisdom. Could you play a Divine Bard and swap Wisdom with Charisma?

[Gnaeus]

That makes more sense.

A 1 level Chameleon dip gets you Healing Lorecall or Guidance of the Avatar. The latter would make you auto succeed on a UMD check to activate a wand.

Edit: Not with a 10 in Wisdom though. Nevermind.

10 wisdom easily becomes 12 wisdom with a +2 wisdom item. That might be enough for what he needs it for.

[Darrin]

So... yea. If you have any ideas for healing status conditions, and more healing ability in general, as a Bard, I'm all ears.

Touchstone feat (Sandstorm version) linked to Shrine at Kahar: aid, calm emotions, cure moderate wounds, lesser restoration, or remove paralysis as a SLA 1/day. Or Healing Waters of Abu-Ima, cure serious wounds or remove disease as a SLA 1/day. (Note: you do not need to visit the site to get the base ability.)

Shape Soulmeld: Lifebond Vestments + Caduceus Bracers (2000 GP, MIC p. 84), removes dazed/fatigued/sickened or ability drain.

True Believer + Cornucopia of the Needful (6000 GP, MIC p. 155): 1d4+1 random fruit every morning, but includes heal, heroe's feast, break enchantment, SR 25, death ward, divine power, or neutralize poison.

The "floating feat" from a Chameleon dip can get any of those for a day... Shape Soulmeld in particular is pretty handy, since the soulmelds are permanent until unshaped. You can shape up to 10 soulmelds on yourself if you have a high enough Con (Con score - 10 = max number of soulmelds shaped). Another possibility...

Hidden Talent (psionic minor creation) or Wild Talent (Adon) can produce:

atramen oil (Planar Handbook, splash weapon nerfs Fort saves)

bitterleaf oil (RotD, doubles natural healing up to 5 HP)

black lotus extract (DMG, removes the "not dead yet" condition)

blackroot oil (Secrets of Xendrik, removes light sensitivity)

bloodflower salve (Serpent Kingdoms, if you can explain to the DM how this non-magical alchemical substance can be activated via command word, you can cure 1 HP of damage from 25' away)

brown mold (DMG, 3d6 nonlethal cold damage)

flour (Dungeonscape, pinpoints invisible creatures and reduces their Hide bonus)

icewild lichen paste (Secrets of Sarlona, removes fatigue)

ipecac (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft p. 209, removes the "swallowed whole" condition)

gray slime (Dungeonscape, acid damage when exposed to light, combine with fire trap, explosive runes, Shalantha's delicate disk, skull talismans, etc.)

greensickness (MM3, inhaled poison DC 33, primary/secondary 2d6 Str + 1d4 Con damage)

green slime (DMG, 1d6 Con damage or 2d6 damage vs. wood/metal)

golden desert honey (Complete Mage, removes the "summon spells take too f***ing long" condition)

healing salve (Tome & Blood, cures 1d8 HP, works on warforged, not sure how many doses are in 1 cubic ft, but weight is "--" so... each dose is an ounce, maybe? 1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons = 960 applications? Yeah, the DM couldn't possibly crush you with the banhammer on that...)

oleum (Sandstorm, cures the "I have absolutely no reason to start singing the Beverly Hillbillies theme song" condition)

phosphorescent fungus (DMG, cures the "it's too dark" or "nobody bought any f***ing torches?!?" condition)

red tidewater (Planar Handbook, Ref save DC 15 vs blindness)

shriek paste (Dragon Compendium, makes some... interesting warning/alarm devices)

sleepweed pod (MoF p. 181, Fort save DC 12 vs sleep for 1 min, check the same page for some other plant-based... substances)

snowflake lichen powder (Frostburn p. 16, contact poison DC 13 vs paralysis, no secondary effect)

Tarmak war paint (Dragonlance Campaign Setting p. 232, +5 natural armor bonus, fast healing 5 up to 20 HP)

yellow mold (DMG, Fort save DC 15 vs 1d6 Con damage, secondary 2d6 Con damage)

[Big Fau]

As for UMDing Wands, if your Cha is decent (anything above +3), you can simply buy a few items to pump your UMD check until you can make a DC20.

[Zaq]

What, exactly, do we have to work with? What are you willing to spend? Do you have any levels you'd be willing to lose? Any spare feats? How much gold are you willing to invest in this? You say your skill points are tight . . . just how tight?

Basically, what do we have available to play with?

[Thurbane]

Combat Medic, from Heroes of Battle, most certainly does NOT net you Heal as a 5th level spell. It allows you to spontaneously cast Heal by blowing a 6th level spell slot.
Is there some way to do it using 2 5th level slots and Versatile Spellcaster?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, guys... I'm a Bard5/Dragon Shaman1... and I have already spent all available money (not that it was much, mind you. I got an Echoblade, will eventually Harmonize it when i get the money, got the entire set the Badge is from, to boost my aura as well). This means I will not be able to rely on higher end spell slots period, because Bards don't get many of them.

Skills are tight because I'm supposed to be the Party Face, but only had enough points for an Int of 12. So that's Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive. I got Perform (Stringed) to work with my MW Mandolin. I also picked up Knowledge (Arcana) because I'm the only one in the party who CAN, and because I was thinking strongly about Seeker of the Song. The rest of the points was split up in penny-packets among things like Balance (5 ranks to avoid being flat-footed in Grease), Search (Since I *AM* an Elf), Listen and Move Silently.

I'm also an Elf. Did this for the free Dragontouched the GM gave elves in his game. This means no Chameleon.

Currently, I'm at level 6, and spent all my feats. Next feat is at level 9.

I will, however, look into Incarnum, since this is an Incarnum-heavy game. How does Lifebonded Vestments work with the Lay on Hands bracers? This might be exactly what I need, if they work together!

EDIT: Lifebonded Vestments only works once an hour unless I bind it to Heart chakra, which is not going to be able to happen pre-epic. This makes me a sad panda.

[ericgrau]

That's poison and curses... fine. What about the other bajillion status effects? Nauseated, Frightened, Disease, negative levels, stat damage/drain...

And no, I'm not going to go 12 levels of Bard, regardless of whatever else happens.

I've already got a Belt of Healing for between battle healing which is somewhat more efficient on charges, as long as I don't go crazy with it.
Scroll of remove fear, scroll of remove disease... there's a pattern here. Generally with nauseated you just live with it or move away from the cause. Though a heal spell works. For negative levels you have 24 hours to find an NPC or a few hours for it to run out on its own. Can't do much else without a high level cleric AFAIK.

50 charges lasts a long time. Generally you still want the cure light wounds wand. Maybe use both so you have it after the belt runs out. Not sure but over the campaign it's still probably cheaper than, say, getting enough additional belts to cover the worst possible day.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Scroll of remove fear, scroll of remove disease...

I can't use 'em without UMD because I don't have those on my class list.
Generally with nauseated you just live with it or move away from the cause.I'd rather not allow a TPK to happen if I can avoid it.
Though a heal spell works. And I'm supposed to cast THAT HOW?
For negative levels you have 24 hours to find an NPC or a few hours for it to run out on its own. Can't do much else without a high level cleric AFAIK. Restoration, my friend, if I can find a way to use it.


50 charges lasts a long time. Generally you still want the cure light wounds wand. Maybe use both so you have it after the belt runs out. Not sure but over the campaign it's still probably cheaper than, say, getting additional belts.3/day unlimited number of days generally runs longer, IMO. It also tends to heal more than a wand of CLW.

[TroubleBrewing]

I thought Darrin's suggestion was pretty good. Or are psionics out in your game?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I thought Darrin's suggestion was pretty good. Or are psionics out in your game?

Psionics are in, but my Wis is a 10...

Some of his suggestions made sense, but there are some pretty rough limitations that he doesn't seem to be aware of.

Touchstone feats... yea, they borderline cheese, and i'm not sure if my GM would let those fly.

Lifebond Vestments are good, but they've got a couple of problems. First, the amount of healing they provide is minimal since I'm not an Incarnum user, which means the bracers won't activate for all abilities. I'd need to be level 10 for it to activate, since Shape Soulmeld uses a Meldshaper level equal to 1/2 character level, and I have no essence to invest in it. The other problem is that without the Heart chakra (unable to be attained pre-epic at this point), it may only be used once per hour.

[TroubleBrewing]

Well, sure, but for Hidden Talent, that shouldn't matter, right?

Unless I'm thinking of a different feat... :smallconfused:

I'm AFB, so I could also be TOB (totally off base).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, sure, but for Hidden Talent, that shouldn't matter, right?

Unless I'm thinking of a different feat... :smallconfused:

I'm AFB, so I could also be TOB (totally off base).

It'll give you a 1st level Power, sure. But you still need a manifesting stat high enough to manifest the ability.

[TroubleBrewing]

Ah. Can you grab an item of +2 Wis, as previously suggested?

[ericgrau]

I can't use 'em without UMD because I don't have those on my class list.

Remove fear is, remove disease isn't. Fear is more common and debilitating anyway.


And I'm supposed to cast THAT HOW?
Someone suggested a way to get heal.



3/day unlimited number of days generally runs longer, IMO. It also tends to heal more than a wand of CLW.
Most groups have something like 3-4 game sessions per level. It takes 10 gaming sessions to break even on the belt compared to a wand. Ok fine 3 levels is reasonable. But what if the whole party needs more than a measly 27 HP after a big fight? Only some of the time? Now to use the 2nd belt for 10 days might take a dozen levels and it'd be way more practical to use a wand. In fact 27 HP is fairly piddly after a terrible fight. You'd easily break your bank if you got enough healing belts to handle the worst for the entire party. Basically you get enough healing belts to handle your typical healing, then grab a wand for the rest. Heck make it a wand of lesser vigor if you want to be twice as efficient. Now we're talking 5-6 levels to break even on the belt. Perhaps not even worth it any more, at least not for between battle healing. Only a single belt for faster in-battle healing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Remove fear is, remove disease isn't. Fear is more common and debilitating anyway. And is mind-affecting, and easier to make my allies immune to. Besides, IC gives bonuses against it anyways. I'm more worried about a mummy and a bad Fort save.


Someone suggested a way to get heal. Which I can't get pre-epic, because of the massive feat investment...


Most groups have something like 3-4 game sessions per level. It takes 10 gaming sessions to break even on the belt compared to a wand. Ok fine 3 levels is reasonable. But what if the whole party needs more than a measly 27 HP after a big fight? Only some of the time? Now to use the 2nd belt for 10 days might take a dozen levels and it'd be way more practical to use a wand. In fact 27 HP is fairly piddly after a terrible fight. You'd easily break your bank if you got enough healing belts to handle the worst for the entire party. Basically you get enough healing belts to handle your typical healing, then grab a wand for the rest. Heck make it a wand of lesser vigor if you want to be twice as efficient. Now we're talking 5-6 levels to break even on the belt. Perhaps not even worth it any more, at least not for between battle healing. Only a single belt for faster in-battle healing.

This isn't 'most games'. Also, healing belt is *FAR* more efficient to use out of combat. 3x 2d8 is better than 1x 4d8. And also remember I have a Vigor aura, which lets me heal allies up to 1/2 max hp for free. This is for topping off, not for 'ZOMG HEALZ NAO!'.

[TroubleBrewing]

This is for topping off, not for 'ZOMG HEALZ NAO!'.


Emphasis mine. This part is hardly ever needed, but out-of-combat heals are ALWAYS useful.

Still nothing on the +2 Wis item?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Emphasis mine. This part is hardly ever needed, but out-of-combat heals are ALWAYS useful.

Still nothing on the +2 Wis item?

If I can get my hands on one, that'd be nice. Right now, we're kind of 'fighting the MAN', so magic items may not be very prevalent. Before that, however, I want a Vest of Legends and Harmonizing on my Crystal Echoblade so I can do my primary job.

I think the best bet is to dip Incarnate so I can invest my essentia into Lifebond Vestments and get the Caduceus Bracers. It'd save me a feat and give me essence to put into it. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than anything else I can get my hands on.

[TroubleBrewing]

Yeah. Being shoehorned into the healer role is always challenging outside of the usual options.

And with no high-level magic, it gets a lot harder.

[Darrin]

It'll give you a 1st level Power, sure. But you still need a manifesting stat high enough to manifest the ability.

From the Hidden Talent feat:

"If you have no psionic class levels, use Charisma to determine how powerful a power you can manifest and how hard those powers are to resist."

Also, psionic minor creation is a Psion (Shaper) power. Psions use Int as their manifesting stat. You have a 12 in Int, so a 1-level Psion dip wouldn't be a completely terrible idea. You get 5 PP, a psionic bonus feat, and three 1st level powers, which could include:

astral construct (a.k.a. "summon trapfinder")
call to mind (ask your DM if you can add this to bardic knowledge checks)
dimension hop (via Expanded Knowledge)
entangling ectoplasm (ranged touch attack, debuff)
psionic endure elements (counters the "its too hot/cold outside" condition)
psionic grease (counters the "I have a Dex bonus" condition)
psionic minor creation (already mentioned)
psionic protection from evil (via Expanded Knowledge, counters mind-control)
synesthete (counters blindness/deafness)
telempathic projection (+4 on all your "party face" rolls)
touch of health (via Expanded Knowledge)

If you follow up an Incarnate dip with a Psion dip, you could take Psycarnum Infusion as your psionic bonus feat. This lets you expend your psionic focus to max out the essentia capacity of any of your soulmelds for 1 round (Lifebond Vestments could heal up to 11 HP, or remove two conditions via Caduceus Bracers).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

From the Hidden Talent feat:

"If you have no psionic class levels, use Charisma to determine how powerful a power you can manifest and how hard those powers are to resist."

Also, psionic minor creation is a Psion (Shaper) power. Psions use Int as their manifesting stat. You have a 12 in Int, so a 1-level Psion dip wouldn't be a completely terrible idea. You get 5 PP, a psionic bonus feat, and three 1st level powers, which could include:

astral construct (a.k.a. "summon trapfinder") Got a Summoner in the party who can summon disposable minions much easier for much less effort.

call to mind (ask your DM if you can add this to bardic knowledge checks) Not according to the way it is written

dimension hop (via Expanded Knowledge)Expanded Knowledge only gives you access to one power of a level lower than the highest you can manifest. Would require too much investment in psionics.

entangling ectoplasm (ranged touch attack, debuff)I already have Grease and Glitterdust as bard spells.

psionic endure elements (counters the "its too hot/cold outside" condition)Endure Elements is one of the easiest things to get.

psionic grease (counters the "I have a Dex bonus" condition) I already have this as a bard spell.

psionic minor creation (already mentioned)Most of the uses you mentioned are either outright 'MORBO SAYS IT NOT WORK THAT WAY' or useless.

psionic protection from evil (via Expanded Knowledge, counters mind-control)Or, yanno, I could just cast the spell. If I wanted to waste time with it, since I'm buffing my allies Will saves to heck and back already.

synesthete (counters blindness/deafness)Self only. I already have means of doing so for myself. I'm wanting to help the party as a whole.

telempathic projection (+4 on all your "party face" rolls)I already have a +30 to Bluff checks with Glibness. Do I really *NEED* any more?

touch of health (via Expanded Knowledge)Which, again, requires too much investment in psionics.


If you follow up an Incarnate dip with a Psion dip, you could take Psycarnum Infusion as your psionic bonus feat. This lets you expend your psionic focus to max out the essentia capacity of any of your soulmelds for 1 round (Lifebond Vestments could heal up to 11 HP, or remove two conditions via Caduceus Bracers).No. I'm not blowing yet another level, plus an additional feat, to duplicate what I would get out of Incarnate2.

[Darrin]

Expanded Knowledge only gives you access to one power of a level lower than the highest you can manifest. Would require too much investment in psionics.


Ack! Sorry, missed that. Psionics is one of my weak areas.



No. I'm not blowing yet another level, plus an additional feat, to duplicate what I would get out of Incarnate2.

Sounds good. What are the other two soulmelds you want to pick up? Crown bind has:

Shedu Crown for telepathy, so you can take Mindsight at ECL 9
Crystal Helm for +2 deflection bonus and [force] on all your melee attacks (i.e., free Ghost Touch for all your weapons)

[dextercorvia]

Is there any reason why you can't take 1 rank of UMD? If you are dipping incarnum anyway, they have the Mage's Spectacles, which you could switch essentia to between combats to pump your check. Combine with Improvisation or something, and you ought to be able to have a pretty good chance of UMD'ing a wand or scroll of what you want.

[OracleofWuffing]

Got a Summoner in the party who can summon disposable minions much easier for much less effort.
Speaking of, what does the rest of your party look like? I mean, with your levels, gold, and abilities already sat in stone, there's only so much one can do for just one character, maybe some of the other members can give a little bit to contribute to healing?

[lesser_minion]

It heals allies every round, which stabilizes them. Again, not worried so much about myself as everyone else.

Check the description. It provides them with Fast Healing, which doesn't actually have that effect -- even if it comes from a spell or the equivalent, Fast Healing works "just like natural healing", which simply doesn't apply unless the recipient is already stable.

It's hardly unbalanced, so your DM might let it slide, but it's not RAW.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Speaking of, what does the rest of your party look like? I mean, with your levels, gold, and abilities already sat in stone, there's only so much one can do for just one character, maybe some of the other members can give a little bit to contribute to healing?

Summoner, fixed Soulknife, and another TWF ginsu guy. So two who have no casting ability whatsoever, and an arcane caster.

As far as other soulmelds, I'm looking at Impulse Boots for Uncanny Dodge (since Dex is tied for my highest stat) and either Crystal Helm or Enigma Helm. If I ever unlock the feet chakra, Impulse Boots also give me Evasion without needing to spend a whole ton of cash on the ring.

[Fineous Orlon]

It heals allies every round, which stabilizes them. Again, not worried so much about myself as everyone else.


Check the description. It provides them with Fast Healing, which doesn't actually have that effect -- even if it comes from a spell or the equivalent, Fast Healing works "just like natural healing", which simply doesn't apply unless the recipient is already stable.

It's hardly unbalanced, so your DM might let it slide, but it's not RAW.



Fast Healing (Ex): A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptionally fast rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature’s entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, and it does not allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached.

Natural healing does not allow healing those things underlined, either, IIRC. So, those are not ways in which Fast Healing differs from Natural Healing.

'Except where noted here'
It is noted in the definition that 'A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptionally fast rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature’s entry.'

The speed, and that it happens every round, are really the only differences from natural healing, and those are differences listed in the entry, or 'noted here.'

The DMG can be helpful here as well, but it is not the primary source for Su and Ex abilities.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Check the description. It provides them with Fast Healing, which doesn't actually have that effect -- even if it comes from a spell or the equivalent, Fast Healing works "just like natural healing", which simply doesn't apply unless the recipient is already stable.

It's hardly unbalanced, so your DM might let it slide, but it's not RAW.

Check the description for normal healing...
Healing

After taking damage, you can recover hit points through natural healing or through magical healing. In any case, you can’t regain hit points past your full normal hit point total.
Natural Healing

With a full night’s rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.

If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points. No where does it state that you cannot heal naturally while dying. Therefore, it heals at least 1 hit point, and therefore stabilizes the targets.

[Douglas]

No where does it state that you cannot heal naturally while dying. Therefore, it heals at least 1 hit point, and therefore stabilizes the targets.
No, that rule is under Stable Characters and Recovery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#stableCharactersandRecovery). Technically this applies to stable people and not dying people, and you could rule on that basis that Fast Healing does work for dying people, but that's splitting hairs in a way that's almost certainly not intended. Then again, it's not obvious that Fast Healing is intended to not work for unconscious people in the first place, as the rule in question is sufficiently obscure and non-obvious that it's highly plausible that the writer for Fast Healing never realized that he might need to specify an overruling clause for it.

[Ajadea]

Summoner, fixed Soulknife, and another TWF ginsu guy. So two who have no casting ability whatsoever, and an arcane caster.

You forgot Frog Dragon's Shaper Psion.


From the Hidden Talent feat:

Also, psionic minor creation is a Psion (Shaper) power. Psions use Int as their manifesting stat. You have a 12 in Int, so a 1-level Psion dip wouldn't be a completely terrible idea. You get 5 PP, a psionic bonus feat, and three 1st level powers, which could include:

astral construct (a.k.a. "summon trapfinder")
psionic minor creation (already mentioned)

Our shaper has both of these powers.

I'm the Summoner, just FYI. No, I don't have any spells capable of removing status effects.



I think the best bet is to dip Incarnate so I can invest my essentia into Lifebond Vestments and get the Caduceus Bracers. It'd save me a feat and give me essence to put into it. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than anything else I can get my hands on.

My eidolon can shape Lifebond Vestments, she's got the feat and stuff. How do these Caduceus Bracers work now? I don't mind losing my bracers slot, considering I've got the ability to wear light armor.

[lesser_minion]

Yeah, looking at it, it is RAW, in that while stable characters don't benefit from natural healing, dying ones do. That is not the kind of argument I'd be happy putting forward to a DM though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You forgot Frog Dragon's Shaper Psion. Probably because he's posted a grand total of twice the whole time...

My eidolon can shape Lifebond Vestments, she's got the feat and stuff. How do these Caduceus Bracers work now? I don't mind losing my bracers slot, considering I've got the ability to wear light armor.

Basically, Caduceus Bracers, from the Magic Item Compendium lets you trade off healing for removal of minor status effects or negative levels. Lifebonded Vestments gives you some healing ability. Binding it to arm chakra lets you do it at range. But you need the Heart chakra to do it unlimited. Otherwise it's once an hour per target.

[cZak]

If I was going to do that, I'd go into Holy Liberator...

It was about getting you LoH's...
The point was PrC Paladin would give you LoH's AND advance your bard casting levels while INCLUDING the paladin spell list as options; Lsr restoration as a 1st level spell.
But its moot if your DM won't wave the turn undead req...


Healing Hymn does not do what you think it does...

...the song needs to be going for at least 5 rounds before it kicks in

I think you may have misread. The only thing I see about '5 rounds' is the effects duration after you stop singing. The effect happens basically immediately after you start singing.



There's a little problem about casting while singing...

Harmonizing is on my 'to purchase' list...

Melodic casting feat (CMg44) allows bard music effect and cast spells or spell completion (scrolls)/ command word.
This also removes the need to put ranks in concentration as you use perform checks instead.


It seems you may be try'n to do too many things; being the face, healer, combatant... The first is easy for a bard ut tacking on the others does make it much more difficult.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It was about getting you LoH's...
The point was PrC Paladin would give you LoH's AND advance your bard casting levels while INCLUDING the paladin spell list as options; Lsr restoration as a 1st level spell.
But its moot if your DM won't wave the turn undead req... And it most certainly won't advance bard casting, since it only advances Divine spells, and does NOT grant access to Paladin spells, which I would then have to purchase with Spells Known, even if it did.


I think you may have misread. The only thing I see about '5 rounds' is the effects duration after you stop singing. The effect happens basically immediately after you start singing. Then perhaps you need to go back and re-read it yourself.


It seems you may be try'n to do too many things; being the face, healer, combatant... The first is easy for a bard ut tacking on the others does make it much more difficult.Yea, it's certainly a challenge.

Unfortunately, the GM got banned from the forum, so the whole exercise is moot.

[cZak]

...since it only advances Divine spells

If your base class is DIVINE Bard then it certainly will advance your bard casting.


... NOT grant access to Paladin spells

You're a Paladin from a casting class...
I suppose a DM could say no to access to the Paladin spell list, but I can't really see that as reasonable.


Then perhaps you need to go back and re-read it yourself.

In its entirety:
Healing Hymn
When you play your healing hymn, your allies can cast curative spells more effectively. Furthermore, everyone around you feels rejuvenated and more fully rested when your hymn becomes a lullaby.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: This benefit replaces the fascinate bardic music ability.
Benefit: If you have 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill, you can use your music or poetics to create an area conducive to healing.
To be affected, an ally must be able to see and hear you perform. The effect lasts as long as you continue performing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally who casts any conjuration (healing) spell gains a +1 sacred (if you’re good or neutral) or profane (if you’re evil) bonus on the roll for each rank you have in the Perform skill. This ability has no effect on spells cast from wands, scrolls, or other magic items.
In addition, if you use this ability for 1 full minute before you and your allies retire for the night, everyone in the group heals naturally as if he had completed 24 hours of bed rest (thus recovering twice his character level in
hit points). If the music is interrupted, the magic of the song is lost.
Either use of healing hymn counts as one daily use of your bardic music ability. This is a spell-like ability.

No mention of requiring any 'warm up/ practice' singing...



Unfortunately, the GM got banned from the forum, so the whole exercise is moot.

Sorry to hear