Help me usher in an apocalypse of fur (First time OWoD wolf ST, looking for advice)

[Kuma Da]

It started as a "well, I'll show you" reaction to one of my friends calling the system a bunch of adolescent junk-swinging, but I've decided to run a game of Werewolf the Apocalypse for my cousins over skype. They're the sort of gamers where you can just drop them in a city and they'll find their own adventure, which is just about perfect, but they also have a short attention-span for RP and know next to nothing about the system.

I'm not that much better. I've played in a few sessions of woof and know some of the lore, but couldn't tell you the detailed backstory of all the tribes, for example. What I'm looking for here are ideas on how to be a good wolf ST, and on what kinds of things I might throw into the story. I have skimmed the storyteller's guide, but I figure you guys will have your own insights into what can make a wolf game good. So, have at it! Make me a better werewolf st. :smallcool:

(basic setting information: modern day, western massachusetts, postponed apocalypse although it's getting pretty close, weather is all messed up, players starting as a pack but flashing back to first changes, the pups are given a 'soft' territory without major cairns or hostile spillover from nearby combat zones)

[randomhero00]

Actually Werewolf is one system where you need to know practically everything to be a good Storyteller :(

That's why a lot of storytellers admit werewolf is better but run vampire games instead. They don't have to know as much.

You *need* to know the Umbra.

As far as other tips that are good, that you *don't* have to know the backhistory for.... tie in current real life events. Like all those tornadoes recently. Make it part of the end of the world. It will force them to be immersed.

[Eric Tolle]

Just bear in mind that the Delirium is generally interpreted by players as a "we can do whatever we want in public" power. Be sure to enforce indirect consequences after the PCs decide to monster out in public.

For that matter, remember that in most cases the weres will be the toughest critters around. Definitely they overpower any mortal oponnent. Later you can surprise them with a truly tough monster, but for now, let them deal with problems that are mostly investigati corruptionon.

The fact that there is a link between physical and spiritual corruption in the Garou cosmology, and that such corporation can both manifest as banes or be caused by them opens a lot of interesting story potential. Consider what the spirit world appearance of a crack house or a pimp's "recruitment" apartment may look like, and that both may be influenced by a small toxic waste dump nearby, and you can get complex stories that aren't just solved by killing people.

A lot of emphasis of spirit world decay mirroring urban decay and you can give the feeling of losing the war even outside of the battle zones.

Oh yeah- don't let anyone play a Bastet; I've never seen a game with them that didn't rapidly go off the rails.

[Kuma Da]

The umbra is one of my weak points. I'll give that a lot more of a look over.

My major issue with wolf, and the reason the other game I was in flopped (well, one of the reasons,) is that there's so much awesome stuff going on at once in the setting that it's hard to treat any of it with the proper reverence that it's supposed to call for. I'm trying to avoid having things turn into an arcade smash-'em-up (although if that's what the players want, that's what they'll get) because I think wolf can be a lot more than that.

I want just stepping into the umbra for the first time to be an experience, instead of "okay, we're all through? Let's go."

[Kuma Da]

The fact that there is a link between physical and spiritual corruption in the Garou cosmology, and that such corporation can both manifest as banes or be caused by them opens a lot of interesting story potential. Consider what the spirit world appearance of a crack house or a pimp's "recruitment" apartment may look like, and that both may be influenced by a small toxic waste dump nearby, and you can get complex stories that aren't just solved by killing people.

I'm definitely going to be working with this, although my brain hadn't quite made the jump from "pollution causes banes" to "anywhere that causes misery is going to have a negative reflection in the umbra." Even though that's all in the book. I'll see what I can do to make challenges more complex than corporation X is dumping chemical Y in the lake.

edit: yeah. Wolf only. Bastet, Rokea, Anansi etc are all different games as far as I'm concerned.

[randomhero00]

The umbra is one of my weak points. I'll give that a lot more of a look over.

My major issue with wolf, and the reason the other game I was in flopped (well, one of the reasons,) is that there's so much awesome stuff going on at once in the setting that it's hard to treat any of it with the proper reverence that it's supposed to call for. I'm trying to avoid having things turn into an arcade smash-'em-up (although if that's what the players want, that's what they'll get) because I think wolf can be a lot more than that.

I want just stepping into the umbra for the first time to be an experience, instead of "okay, we're all through? Let's go."

Very good. You have the makings of a great storyteller. You seem to understand the problem I was trying to put forth. Keep listening to your instincts and do as much research as possible. And you'll almost certainly have a good game.

One last random tip: Be sure to play mortals smart. Just because they are weak (relatively) doesn't mean they are stupid monkeys to level up on. You can't just give them a club and send them against a were like you might in DnD. Think shotguns for upclose with special ammo, timed explosives, and sniper rifles. Of course don't over do it either, were's are supposed to be the baddest kids on the block (even badder than vamps...altho personally I'd be a lot more scared of a vamp because of all the social influence and nastiness that comes with).

[Kuma Da]

For mortals that don't outright panic or run, absolutely. If they're ridden by spirits, or hopped up on drugs, or trained by hunters, or something, yes. They'll be a threat.

But if all they have is a 9mm and someone goes full crinos on them, they're going to be out the door, down the block, and possibly on the moon before they stop to think "wait, what happened?"

Hmm. Maybe a drug that blocks delerium would make for a good plot-line. I'll give that a shot.

[LibraryOgre]

'Course, you can always cheat around your weakness. "I don't know the Umbra Rules" sounds like an excellent start for campaign whose hook is "For some reason, Garou cannot go into the Umbra in this city. Find out why." Have another team trying to approach the city from the Umbra (i.e. "That's not the player's problem"), and occasionally give them information from that front, while the players get lost in the big city and wind up dealing with all sorts of things in the way that PCs do ("Look! A sidequest!")

I call it "pulling a pre-4e Shadowrun". :smallbiggrin:

[Kuma Da]

Not a bad idea, although I really do like the umbra even if I haven't read up on it a whole ton. It's a wolfier way to get from point A to point B, and it circumvents the problem of just-barely-post-change ahrouns without driver's licenses.

I like the hook, but I'll hold onto it for a different group. My cousins are totally new to wolf. I sorta want to introduce them to the umbra before cutting them off from it.

[Caliphbubba]

Consider running them as Cubs instead of an established pack. Run them through a Rite of Passage, maybe give them a "free" familiar-type spirit that allows you to interject bits and pieces of werewolf lore/tribe lore into the game in a more seemless way. You can introduce things at your own rate that way, rather than having everything thrown in all at once.

I am STing a game that started with this. They all undergo their first change all at the same time in the midst of a Homecoming Pep Rally at their high school, when the star football player freaks out and starts killing cheerleaders. The whole gym freaks out and the Delirium washes over everyone. They all spontaniously change at the revulsion from the Formor, and watch as their Guidence Counsilor goes full Crinos and slaughters the Formor.

[Kuma Da]

Consider running them as Cubs instead of an established pack. Run them through a Rite of Passage, maybe give them a "free" familiar-type spirit that allows you to interject bits and pieces of werewolf lore/tribe lore into the game in a more seemless way. You can introduce things at your own rate that way, rather than having everything thrown in all at once.

I am STing a game that started with this. They all undergo their first change all at the same time in the midst of a Homecoming Pep Rally at their high school, when the star football player freaks out and starts killing cheerleaders. The whole gym freaks out and the Delirium washes over everyone. They all spontaniously change at the revulsion from the Formor, and watch as their Guidence Counsilor goes full Crinos and slaughters the Formor.

That sounds absolutely awesome, but I am a little leery about starting with the rite of passage.

To explain a little, The Game That Nearly Turned Me Off Wolf was a first change game, and our characters were constantly and horribly boned over by how little they knew about the setting. Our rite of passage took us into the scar, and while we were there our silverfang galliard got brainscrewed by a weaver spirit and saddled with a solid eight points of flaws (he botched one roll and got stuck with a three dot compulsion to follow orders, then botched another and had his right arm permanently ripped off by the machine he was forced to work at.) His character concept was headstrong leader.

There were a handful of other things about that game that I didn't care for (rolling too many successes on a jump check meant overshooting. We had people crash through walls into burning buildings this way,) but the major one was how unable we were to deal with how much the world wanted to kill us. I want my wolf to be fun, not grindcore brutal, so I'm thinking it's safer to start with savvy PCs, and then fill in the players on what their characters would know in a situation.

edit: I know I was really negative with the things I just said there, so let me repeat what I said at the start of the post. Your game sounds freaking awesome. Werewolf+high school melodrama? Hell yes.

[LibraryOgre]

That sounds absolutely awesome, but I am a little leery about starting with the rite of passage.

To explain a little, The Game That Nearly Turned Me Off Wolf was a first change game, and our characters were constantly and horribly boned over by how little they knew about the setting.

<snip>

edit: I know I was really negative with the things I just said there, so let me repeat what I said at the start of the post. Your game sounds freaking awesome. Werewolf+high school melodrama? Hell yes.

So, you're looking at playing Scruffy the Fomori Slayer, but you're unwilling to, pardon the pun, leave them to the wolves. To me, it sounds like you need a Giles... someone who cannot effectively help them in a fight, but who can provide them with key information. To me, that bespeaks a Kinfolk shaman... someone who knows Garou life and culture, but is not, themselves, Garou (and so can't overshadow them in a fight). There must be a reason the rest of the Garou can't come meet them (maybe they're "behind enemy lines" in some place that's run by the Wyrm), but this relatively unimportant person can.

[Caliphbubba]

That sounds absolutely awesome, but I am a little leery about starting with the rite of passage.

To explain a little, The Game That Nearly Turned Me Off Wolf was a first change game, and our characters were constantly and horribly boned over by how little they knew about the setting. Our rite of passage took us into the scar, and while we were there our silverfang galliard got brainscrewed by a weaver spirit and saddled with a solid eight points of flaws (he botched one roll and got stuck with a three dot compulsion to follow orders, then botched another and had his right arm permanently ripped off by the machine he was forced to work at.) His character concept was headstrong leader.

There were a handful of other things about that game that I didn't care for (rolling too many successes on a jump check meant overshooting. We had people crash through walls into burning buildings this way,) but the major one was how unable we were to deal with how much the world wanted to kill us. I want my wolf to be fun, not grindcore brutal, so I'm thinking it's safer to start with savvy PCs, and then fill in the players on what their characters would know in a situation.

edit: I know I was really negative with the things I just said there, so let me repeat what I said at the start of the post. Your game sounds freaking awesome. Werewolf+high school melodrama? Hell yes.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :-) my players seem to enjoy it. They are gearing up to assult the Magadon Inc packing/shipping facility that is responsible for the poison.

as for your concerns about things regarding a first change game, I only have this to say: YOU are running it. not some knucklehead ST out to get you. How much, or how little you bone the players for not knowing about the setting is entirely up to you. And in my mind, it is much more plausible that brand new players that don't have a firm grasp on the setting would make more faux pas if they WERE playing an established pack. Cubs are much more likely to be forgiven for missteps.

Also, as always @Mark Hall has good suggestions as well. I'll just stay this in regards to the "being overshadowed by Elders" line of thinking....
Don't be afraid to make the PCs the Stars of the game. If that means they are children of destiny, or they revive an ancient Totem (my favorite is an aspect of Turtle), or what-have-you... Elders, protective and otherwise, are going to be eager to let the new Pups prove they are what they seem to be.

If you do decide to run an established pack, I recommend pre-generating characters with strong backgrounds and letting the players choose between them. I think I'd probably give them all the "Common Sense" Merit for free or something equvilatant so you, as the ST, can interject parts of the Werewolf Tribe/Litany/Auspice Lore to the characters that the PLAYERS might not be aware of. This is even more important if you intend on playing with Sept dynamics.

[Kuma Da]

Caliph and Mark, that's good advice on both fronts. I think I can keep the elders' interventions minimal, simply because they have better things to do than bother with the issues of pups, but a mentor of some sort wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll certainly suggest that someone invest a few dots in it. That way, it isn't exactly a DM PC. The player decides mechanically how important the mentor is to their story, and I get a great source of plot hooks and advice.

I'm giving out common sense for free, although players can choose not to take it if that fits their character better. I'll probably toss them a free dot in exchange.

[Caliphbubba]

I just thought about this one, tracking Moonphase...

Here is a website that I find very useful while running my werewolf game

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml

[TheCountAlucard]

I just thought about this one, tracking Moonphase...

Here is a website that I find very useful while running my werewolf game

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtmlEh, I always just assume that the phase shifts over by one day for each lunar month, and that each phase lasts for about three days. Still, whatever works.

[comicshorse]

Caliph and Mark, that's good advice on both fronts. I think I can keep the elders' interventions minimal, simply because they have better things to do than bother with the issues of pups, but a mentor of some sort wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll certainly suggest that someone invest a few dots in it. That way, it isn't exactly a DM PC. The player decides mechanically how important the mentor is to their story, and I get a great source of plot hooks and advice.

I'm giving out common sense for free, although players can choose not to take it if that fits their character better. I'll probably toss them a free dot in exchange.

I forget the exact name for it but there is a merit where the werewolf can be able to speak to the spirit of an honoured ancestor. This would seem to fit your needs as its a wise advisor with knowledge of the world but can take absolutely no physical action and so won't overshadow the PCs

[Caliphbubba]

Eh, I always just assume that the phase shifts over by one day for each lunar month, and that each phase lasts for about three days. Still, whatever works.

that certainly works, but if you're like me, and can't remember what you started the cycle on from week to week and neglect to write it down,(as strange as it seems its a minor detail for my planing as an ST, but is understanbly important from the PC side of things) something like this can be useful.


I forget the exact name for it but there is a merit where the werewolf can be able to speak to the spirit of an honoured ancestor. This would seem to fit your needs as its a wise advisor with knowledge of the world but can take absolutely no physical action and so won't overshadow the PCs

that is sort of a function of the Ancestors and/or Past Lives background depending on which edition of the game you are playing. I would probably let them take the Spirit Mentor Merit for an especially potent Ancestor as well. you could be right saying that there is an specific merit that otherwise does this too.

[LibraryOgre]

Caliph and Mark, that's good advice on both fronts. I think I can keep the elders' interventions minimal, simply because they have better things to do than bother with the issues of pups, but a mentor of some sort wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll certainly suggest that someone invest a few dots in it. That way, it isn't exactly a DM PC. The player decides mechanically how important the mentor is to their story, and I get a great source of plot hooks and advice.

I'm giving out common sense for free, although players can choose not to take it if that fits their character better. I'll probably toss them a free dot in exchange.

One option is to make Mentor a "group" advantage, like Totem. Instead of putting it on the standard 5 point scale, put it on a 10 point scale, but any point spent by one of the pups goes towards their collective mentor. If everyone can squeeze out a point or two of Mentor, that leads to someone who knows a lot, even if they're not terribly strong.

[LemuneSD]

...rolling too many successes on a jump check meant overshooting. We had people crash through walls into burning buildings this way...

Is that a house rule? House rules definitely overrule anything in the book.

But in the standard rule set of WoD, more successes are rewarded, not punished. You can't possibly have too many succeses! Its a measurement of how difficult the task is (Difficulty for an average task is 6) compared to how successful you are at completing the task (Only 1 success is needed to accomplish it). Also remember, each 1 that is rolled subtracts a success.

Example:
One success: You were able to fix the car so it starts, but you may want to get it to a mechanic as soon as possible.
Two successes: Its not the prettiest fix, but the car runs decently now.
Three successes: You fix it good as new!
Four successes: Not only did you fix it, but you increased its efficiency in the process.
Five (+) successes: Its not only completely fixed, but the improvements you made are incredible!
No successes: You can't seem to get it working.
No successes and at least one 1 (Botch): You never liked that car anyways. You're glad when it catches on fire.

Also as a standard, if you are in a non-stressful or non-combat situation (where you could take 10 in D&D) and you have more dice in your pool than the Difficulty number is, then you really don't even need to roll. You are considered capable of handling the task with ease from past experience. This can save time on quite a few activities your characters need to do.

Example:
You sit down, coffee in hand, to hack into the Hard Drive that your Pack "acquired" from the local Pentex office. Security on the Drive is set at Diff 7. With your Intelligence and Computers scores both at 4 (total 8 dice pool), your computer genius self can access the data as easily as checking your E-mail.

Hacking into an access terminal (Diff 9) to shut down the Pentex Security Defense Grid while your pack is desperately trying to buy you time by fighting off the Black Spiral Dancers, definitely requires you to make that suspenseful roll. You might even need multiple successes!

[TheCountAlucard]

Well, TECHNICALLY, if you get too many successes when you're fighting someone in combat, you could kill them when you only meant to knock them out. :smallamused:

Of course, that's somewhat-unlikely. :smalltongue:

[LemuneSD]

Of course, that's somewhat-unlikely. :smalltongue:

>=D

Oh, another item of related relevance is frustration levels. Garou are, by nature, aggressive and angry creatures. As a character tries and fails at a task, he may show signs of frustration, which may add to his difficulty. This can be a fun (or annoying) way of adding depth to the interaction. Other times, it may ruin the player's mood, so use your best judgement!

Example:
"It's midnight. A waning Crescent Moon hangs in the air. Cart-Chaser is at the front door of his target's house. The low lighting allows him to go unseen. Using the lockpick set, he attempts to open the door (Diff 6 for the simple lock)."

Cart: No successes.
GM: "Nothing happens."
Cart: <Obviously annoyed> "Dammit! I try again..."
GM: "Okay. +1 Diff now for the frustration you are experiencing."
Cart: Botch (no successes, one 1).
GM: "Your lockpick set snaps inside the lock."
Cart: "F@ck! Stupid friggin door!"
GM: "Are you mad? You sound kinda mad..."
Cart: "Heck yeah I'm mad!"
GM: "Make a Frenzy Check."

[Kuma Da]

Is that a house rule? House rules definitely overrule anything in the book.

It was a very literal interpretation of the "one success equals five feet" jump rules in the book. We could roll less dice than our maximum if we wanted to, but all that usually meant was that we were tempting the botch gods. In order to successfully jump, we had to roll exactly the number of successes required.

I do like the idea of using the characters' Garou nature to add drama, by the way. Part of the mood I'm going to be trying to reinforce is how Garou culture is different than mundane human. It's a little too easy in some groups to just think of characters as people in magical wolfsuits.

[Fox Box Socks]

Very basic thing you can do right off the bat: ban Red Talons.

They don't play well with others, they're inherently disruptive to any sort of game where the PCs try to maintain at least a rudimentary relationship with wither Kin or mortals, and they can't regain Gnosis in cities (where your game will most likely be set).

Red Talons are like the Chaotic Evil Rogue of Garou Tribes: while it's possible to play one smartly and "correctly" and in a way that both plays well with others and doesn't disrupt the the framework of the chronicle, it's much, much easier to play one that's a jerk. And nobody likes jerks at the table.

Red Talons can have a part in the cosmology, and there can be friendly (or unfriendly) Red Talon NPCs, but I've found that Red Talon PCs are simply more trouble than they're worth.

[Kuma Da]

New and old world of darkness, just as systems alone, can produce lots and lots of (totally rules-acceptable) gameplay disasters. I'm keeping character creation very open for this reason, encouraging people to collaborate and directly give feedback on ideas and concepts. Otherwise, it's way too easy to get That One Guy Who Puts All His Dots Into Rank 1 Contacts And Gives Them All Elaborate Backstories. I like well thought-out characters, but not when they come with a background that's so beastly huge or unfeasible that it's practically it's own game. I want a solid pack of wolves, not four solid totally independent characters.

[LemuneSD]

...I want a solid pack of wolves, not four solid totally independent characters.

I agree, and that's actually one of the major benefits (and possibly drawbacks) of the Pack. Unlike other RPGs, Werewolf stresses the Alpha position. Everyone can have their own opinions and objectives, but must ultimately answer to the Alpha if they wish to remain part of the pack. For better or worse, the Alpha is responsible for the Pack's actions. =D