[3.PF] Monk AC Bonus

[Mr. Zolrane]

Quick question about the Pathfinder Monk. He adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and adds a point of AC. The description, however, does not state what kind of AC bonus we're talking about here. Is it deflection? Dodge? Doesn't say. Does someone know if this has been answered somewhere?

[TroubleBrewing]

If it doesn't state the type, it's an Untyped Bonus, which are as rare as they are useful.

They stack with everything.

[Mr. Zolrane]

If it doesn't state the type, it's an Untyped Bonus, which are as rare as they are useful.

They stack with everything.

Smexy. The more I look into the PF Monk, the more I think he might actually be alright. If nothing else, he looks like fun. Get a couple of pally levels in there to add Charisma to saves... couple that with an already ridiculous reflex save, and spell resistance that gives you, on average a 50% chance to block any (EDIT: Many spells. Orbs and such are still a pain, but when aren't they?) spell, and getting hit by fireballs and other AoE spells becomes statistically insignificant... but I digress.

[TroubleBrewing]

It's marginally better than in 3.5. I still recommend ToB to anyone wanting to play an unarmed character.

Monk is just so, so awful.

[Big Fau]

Smexy. The more I look into the PF Monk, the more I think he might actually be alright. If nothing else, he looks like fun. Get a couple of pally levels in there to add Charisma to saves... couple that with an already ridiculous reflex save, and spell resistance that gives you, on average a 50% chance to block any (EDIT: Many spells. Orbs and such are still a pain, but when aren't they?) spell, and getting hit by fireballs and other AoE spells becomes statistically insignificant... but I digress.

Um, the part about the AC stacking with anything is as old as 3rd Edition.


And Monks are not particularly good. If a Wizard wants to cap you, he'll cap you and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Um, the part about the AC stacking with anything is as old as 3rd Edition.


And Monks are not particularly good. If a Wizard wants to cap you, he'll cap you and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

I didn't know that. I've been playing DnD for less than a year, mind you. Everything's kinda new for me, and I didn't give the 3.5 monk a second look after a friend of mine naively thought it was good (we were newbs, cut us a break).

And I'm well aware of that. My friends and I tend to play fairly low-op games--not that I, or any of us that I'm aware of, have some irrational dislike of optimization, it's just that with the exception of one guy, most of us will go with something less than optimal if we like the flavor enough--and the overwhelming majority of wizards, PCs or otherwise are going to be blaster mages, something the PF monk is quite good at defending against.



It's marginally better than in 3.5. I still recommend ToB to anyone wanting to play an unarmed character.

Monk is just so, so awful.

Honestly, maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it actually seems a lot better, and I plan on adding a number of houserules to basically every class (PF did a good job with many things, but in some cases they could have done more). One such rule with be that monks can flurry as a standard action, which is a fairly common one from what I've heard. Nothing against ToB, I just don't own it, can't really afford to spend the cash right now, and I refuse to use any source I don't legally own.

[acid_ninja]

Honestly, I think a couple of things will improve the monk greatly:

From the SRD: By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack.

Change it to: By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack.

Now you can be mobile and still get off extra attacks, while getting even more of a bonus if you stand toe to toe. Also, don't forget that trip attacks can be made as part of a flurry - trip with the first hit and then pummel away at a gimped AC for the rest + an AoO if you have greater trip.

There are others but they mostly involve bonus feats - weapon finesse and agile manuevers to reduce MAD spring to mind as well as allowing them to use their monk unarmed damage with monk weapons

[Mr. Zolrane]

Honestly, I think a couple of things will improve the monk greatly:

From the SRD: By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack.

Change it to: By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack.

Now you can be mobile and still get off extra attacks, while getting even more of a bonus if you stand toe to toe. Also, don't forget that trip attacks can be made as part of a flurry - trip with the first hit and then pummel away at a gimped AC for the rest + an AoO if you have greater trip.

There are others but they mostly involve bonus feats - weapon finesse and agile manuevers to reduce MAD spring to mind as well as allowing them to use their monk unarmed damage with monk weapons

On the topic of tripping, another way to help with that (and melee in general) is to revert to 3.5 rules (never thought I'd say those words) for Improved Trip. Gimping it was totally unnecessary, and one of the few PF changes that I was categorically unhappy with.

But yeah, I like all of that. To compromise on the extra ki attack/flurry business, I would say maybe let them spend a ki point to flurry on a charge? Or even just as a standard action?

[acid_ninja]

To compromise on the extra ki attack/flurry business, I would say maybe let them spend a ki point to flurry on a charge? Or even just as a standard action?

That's what I was suggesting. I do think that trip was OP in 3.5 - hence every so many melee builds rely on it. Combat manuevers are more balanced in PF - they're not for making your character an unstoppable solo machine, they're for setting up your allies.

Trip: one standard action that 1) reduces AC by 4 against melee attacks and 2) effectively slows the enemy since they have to use a move action to stand up (provoking an AoO against their already gimped AC) and can't full attack or they move away and then stand up with a withdraw or they try to attack from the ground. Oh and you get a free shot to do damage as well.

Now compare that to Disarm: You're still using your action to take away theirs - they have to use a move to pick up their weapon, provoking an AoO but without the gimped AC (instead, they can't make an AoO unless they have IUAS) but no gimped AC, no free damage.

In PF trip is still better for you (you get the rest of your attacks against a weakened AC) but not super powerful (unitl you pick up greater trip)

[Psyren]

You want a really badass PF monk? Do exactly what you'd do in 3.5, and splash in some Psywar. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psychic-warrior) Now you've got Pounce, Reach, massive AC, natural attacks, size increases, the works.

For example, if you take Ascetic Path, the AC bonuses will stack with your Monk AC bonus. And the Brawler path will make you a grappling fiend. Who wouldn't want to arm-wrestle a treant?

[DeMouse]

Pathfinder Monk is DEADLY.

Zen Archer Specialisation: That is all.