How exactly does Fanged Ring interact with Totemist?

[danzibr]

Suppose I have a character with a natural bite attack and two natural slam attacks. I then slap on a Fanged Ring and throw up Landshark Boots and Girallon Arms and Dragon Tail.

Does anyone know what exactly I'd get with a full attack? I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Fanged Ring is Dragon Magic p. 101.

[Ernir]

The Fanged Ring grants its benefits to unarmed strikes only, not natural attacks in general. So you'd gain nothing.

[Tvtyrant]

The Fanged Ring grants its benefits to unarmed strikes only, not natural attacks in general. So you'd gain nothing.

Unless you choose to make a primary unarmed strike ability; in which case you would gain between 1 and 3 punches.

[Darrin]

Suppose I have a character with a natural bite attack and two natural slam attacks. I then slap on a Fanged Ring and throw up Landshark Boots and Girallon Arms and Dragon Tail.

Does anyone know what exactly I'd get with a full attack? I'm not quite sure.



Fanged Ring gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, which allows you to attack with unarmed strikes as your primary iterative attack without provoking any AoOs.

You'd then get all your natural weapons as secondary attacks with a -5 penalty and 1/2 Str bonus. That would include 4 claw attacks (Girallon Arms). The text says you can only get 3 secondary attacks, but the Rules Compendium specifies that all primary natural weapons can become secondary attacks (if not otherwise occupied).

It's not clear if adding Landshark Boots adds any more claw attacks. Girallon arms has already added claw attacks to your hands, so adding more claw attacks to your hands probably means they just overlap your existing claw attacks. You'd be better off doubling the Lamia Belt with Girallon Arms on your totem chakra, which explicitly adds two secondary claw attacks to your lower body (i.e., not your hands/arms), for a total of six claw attacks.

I'm also not sure if by "Dragon Tail" you mean the soulmeld from Dragon Magic p. 84 or the 1st-level-only feat from Races of the Dragon p. 98. If the latter, no, you can't stack this with any other kind of attack. The dragon tail created by the soulmeld can only be used with a standard action, it doesn't threaten, can't make AoOs, and can't be used in a grapple (which would all be features of natural weapons). None of the binds for Dragon Tail explicitly allows it to be treated as a natural weapon.

If you mean the RotD feat, then yes, you can add that to your full attack as a secondary natural attack. Your full attack progression would look something like:

first iterative +0/second iterative -5/first claw -5/second claw -5/third claw -5/fourth claw -5/fifth claw -5/sixth claw -5/tail -5/third iterative -10

[danzibr]

Fanged Ring gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, which allows you to attack with unarmed strikes as your primary iterative attack without provoking any AoOs.
[...]
first iterative +0/second iterative -5/first claw -5/second claw -5/third claw -5/fourth claw -5/fifth claw -5/sixth claw -5/tail -5/third iterative -10

Well, that was enlightening. Thanks Darrin! Actually I saw your reply here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187568) but didn't see how it worked. I understand the Kobold example now.

But say, for example, I'm going Warforged and I have my 2 slam attacks (1 from a feat) and a bite as my only natural natural weapons (for lack of better words). Then I slap on the Girallon Arms and, as you suggest, Lamia Belt. Oh, and I'm wearing a Fanged Ring. Then my attacks would look like:

fist 1 +0/fist 2 +0/slam 1 -5/slam 2 -5/claw 1 -5/claw 2 -5/claw 3 -5/claw 4 -5/claw 5 -5/claw 6 -5/bite -5.

Or would I get an extra fist 1 -5/fist 1 -10 were my BAB at least 11?

But with Multiattack all of those would be -2's? Basically the Fanged Ring lets me use my fists as attacks and keeps my hands free for the claw attacks. Otherwise, using a weapon, I'd have to give up 1 or 2 claws. And Fanged Ring makes my fists just a bit bigger.

[Hecuba]

If you mean the RotD feat, then yes, you can add that to your full attack as a secondary natural attack. Your full attack progression would look something like:

If you do pick up this, look into tailbands of impact from Dragon Magic.

[Coidzor]

But say, for example, I'm going Warforged and I have my 2 slam attacks (1 from a feat) and a bite as my only natural natural weapons (for lack of better words). Then I slap on the Girallon Arms and, as you suggest, Lamia Belt. Oh, and I'm wearing a Fanged Ring. Then my attacks would look like:

fist 1 +0/fist 2 +0/slam 1 -5/slam 2 -5/claw 1 -5/claw 2 -5/claw 3 -5/claw 4 -5/claw 5 -5/claw 6 -5/bite -5.

Or would I get an extra fist 1 -5/fist 1 -10 were my BAB at least 11?

But with Multiattack all of those would be -2's? Basically the Fanged Ring lets me use my fists as attacks and keeps my hands free for the claw attacks. Otherwise, using a weapon, I'd have to give up 1 or 2 claws. And Fanged Ring makes my fists just a bit bigger.

You'd need to be delivering your Unarmed Strike attacks with a kick or possibly an elbow(depending upon your DM's interpretation) in order to use your slam attacks too.

And since Girallon arms has two of those claws overlap with your regular arms, there'd be competition between two of those claws and the two slams.

Multiattack would make all of those natural weapons have less penalties for being secondary weapons, yes.

[danzibr]

Hmm, thanks. I got a related answer here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196174&page=29).

I think I'll just one of the Girallon claws for my primary attack and everything else as secondary (this works, right). Then spend my money on stuff to buff my attacks.

[Fax Celestis]

I think I'll just one of the Girallon claws for my primary attack and everything else as secondary (this works, right). Then spend my money on stuff to buff my attacks.

All your claws are at the same AB, since they're similar natural attacks from the same source, so you'd be more like Claw +0/Claw +0/Claw +0/Claw +0/Bite -2/Slam -2/Slam -2.

[Greenish]

All your claws are at the same AB, since they're similar natural attacks from the same source, so you'd be more like Claw +0/Claw +0/Claw +0/Claw +0/Bite -2/Slam -2/Slam -2.Except one of those claws is primary, the other three secondaries, as per the soulmeld description.

[Fax Celestis]

Except one of those claws is primary, the other three secondaries, as per the soulmeld description.

Oh, right, the soulmeld breaks standard rules. I always forget that, especially since, afair, the girallon's blessing spell has no such text. (unless that too was a houserule so ingrained into my memory that it has become like unto a real rule)

[danzibr]

So it should be...

claw 1 +0/claw 2 -2/claw 3 -2/claw 4 -2/slam 1 -2/slam 2 -2/bite -2/claw 5 -2/claw 6 -2,

where the last two claws come from Lamia Belt.

So having a high BAB doesn't give any more attacks? Or would I get more claw 1's? Like

claw 1 +0/claw 2 -2/claw 3 -2/claw 4 -2/slam 1 -2/slam 2 -2/bite -2/claw 5 -2/claw 6 -2/claw 1 -5/claw 1 -10.

[Greenish]

So having a high BAB doesn't give any more attacks?Nope, unless you're using unarmed strike.

And slams are sort of grey area on whether they use your hands or not.

[Fax Celestis]

Nope, high BAB never gives extra natural attacks (except when certain feats or features specifically give this out, but most of those are so poorly written people just say "they don't exist").