Ghaele?

[Oudthrinn]

Trying to optimize a Ghaele (Savage Species monster class) for Ray of Light awesomeness. I've taken Vow of Poverty already, so I have a bunch of exalted feats to take, but if anyone has any ideas for what to do about upping the damage of her Rays of Light, I'm all ears.

Thus far I have Improved Natural Attack and Sanctify Natural Attack. Also incorporated Nimbus of Light and Holy Radiance for added oomph against undead.

[Runestar]

Rapid shot should work, though you likely won't have enough feat slots, barring chaos shuffling tricks.

Haste may work as well, but this depends on your DM's interpretation (the spell technically states weapons wielded only).

I don't see the point of sanctify natural attack, since the rays already ignore dr...? :smallconfused:

[Dylaer]

Improved Natural Attack and Sanctify Natural Attack don't apply to the rays, they apply to your, well, natural attacks. As in, claw, bite, or what have you. Unless you're planning on taking levels in monk, those things won't actually apply to you.

Since the light ray is an Ex, I'm not sure of anything that allows you to improve it. Maybe take "Sanctify Spell-like Ability" - it doesn't help your light rays, but it'll boost your, you guessed it, spell-like abilities.

[Darth Stabber]

Supernatural abilities are rather under supported. Spells are really well supported, and to a lesser extent SLAs are as well, but (su) is a very stand-alone tag. You might see if your GM will let you apply SLA affecting feats to it, effectively making you a celestial warlock, but ultimately, that is really only good as a side arm. The big money is on your free cleric castin, good STR, greater invis and greater teleport (eventually at will). You probably don't get a free +4 holy greatsword, but you might want to consider focusing on big PA damage.

[Oudthrinn]

Rapid shot should work, though you likely won't have enough feat slots, barring chaos shuffling tricks.

Haste may work as well, but this depends on your DM's interpretation (the spell technically states weapons wielded only).

I don't see the point of sanctify natural attack, since the rays already ignore dr...? :smallconfused:

I like the Rapid Shot idea. Full Round action to gain another 1 or 2 rays. The sanctify natural attack bit adds additional damage against evil/undead enemies. Decent bonus, but not as good as having additional rays altogether.

Far as I'm aware, since the descriptor is that the attacks are (Ex), they are a "natural" part of the creature, and thus should work with improved natural attack. It was also explained further as RAW in another post as such. With the limited feats available I'll probably be trading the sanctify for rapid shot and taking point blank shot somewhere prior to this. Thanks for the tips guys :)

[Oudthrinn]

Actually, as it turns out I get to keep Sanctify Natural Attack, since it was one of my exalted feats. I got rid of Magic of the Land instead. Now I just need a bunch of Exalted feats. Is there another source for Exalted feats elsewhere? I've already taken everything that can affect my rays.

[Fax Celestis]

Try Champions of Valor.

[Oudthrinn]

Try Champions of Valor.

I'm liking the Knight of Tyr's Merciful Sword feat. It seems out of both books the number of Exalted feats is still really limited. I don't even think I can take any more, and I have 3 slots open.

[NecroRick]

I like the Rapid Shot idea. Full Round action to gain another 1 or 2 rays. The sanctify natural attack bit adds additional damage against evil/undead enemies. Decent bonus, but not as good as having additional rays altogether.

Far as I'm aware, since the descriptor is that the attacks are (Ex), they are a "natural" part of the creature, and thus should work with improved natural attack. It was also explained further as RAW in another post as such. With the limited feats available I'll probably be trading the sanctify for rapid shot and taking point blank shot somewhere prior to this. Thanks for the tips guys :)

Split Ray might work, but the version of Rapid Shot I'm looking at (PHB) definitely doesn't. Since it requires a Ranged Weapon. You might say "but what about the weapon-like thingy from Complete Arcane?"



Ranged Spells: Ranged spells include those that require ranged touch attack rolls, such as rays or hurled missile effects (examples include Melf’s acid arrow and lesser orb of acid, described on page 115). This category also includes spells that generate effects that act as ranged weapons and require ranged attack rolls (but not ranged touch attack rolls), such as decapitating scarf or fire shuriken (described on pages 102 and
107 respectively).


Note especially the bit about decapitating scarf and fire shuriken.

I find that a good rule of thumb to use here is that if you are making a ranged touch attack you are not actually using a ranged weapon, and hence do not qualify for weapon or ranged weapon feats. Whereas if you are rolling against full AC then it is more likely that whatever you are doing is sufficiently 'weapony' to to qualify for those feats.

There is also a list of all the eligible feats that are retrofitted to work with weapon-like spells:

Improved Critical
*Improved Unarmed Strike
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
*Stunning Fist
*Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus

Feats marked * are for touch based weapon-like spells only. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot will mean that you can actually hit with the rays when firing into melee, and that is a good thing.

Any other feats published before Complete Arcane would have been considered for that list and rejected. Any feats published after Complete Arcane should explicitly mention they work with weapon-like spells or else they don't (see Ranged Spell Specialization p82 Complete Arcane).

Now Split Ray says it works with rays, which is good, but it requires a spell slot two levels higher, which is bad (since your ray isn't actually coming from spell slots). You could try to whip up an equivalent feat similar to the quicken and empower spell-like abilities... but then why don't Beholders all have that feat??? Extra save or die attacks... no thanks.

---

Improved Natural Attack is also quite the stretch.



Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)
Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.

These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field.

Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are standard actions unless otherwise noted.


I don't see the word natural anywhere in there. You could argue that they are non-magical... but there's vast quantities of non-magical things that wouldn't qualify as natural attacks.

I suspect that whoever it was that said that extraordinary abilities also count as natural was using high ranks in bluff rather than actual ranks in rules lawyering. Or, as the FAQ puts it, slicing the baloney particularly thinly.