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Relecs
2011-06-07, 05:41 PM
I'm creating a town in which to start the pc's in my upcoming almost no magic pathfinder game. It is a frontier town ruled by a feudal lord put in charge of the north eastern border defense. This defensive position is key because it borders the barbarian highlands. The Lord is fair, and cares for his people but his orders come before the welfare of his people because if the barbarians were to invade his people would be in great trouble whether or not they were happy. The town is situated on top of a hill with the lords keep at the top and the other buildings spilling down it stopping at a tall wooden fence. (The town may have more interior walls not sure yet) Most of the buildings are wood except for the Lord's keep which was built from stone and has a stone wall around it. All members of the village are well versed in archery and the finest of the archers become part of the Lord's rangers who patrol the area surrounding the town. In addition to this the town maintains a thriving trade with the elves who reside in a forest just to the southwest of the village trading (need something to trade here) for fine elven bows and arrows.

I need the playgrounds help in coming up with points of interest in and arround the village in order to create the basis for my campaign setting.

In Grenzsoldat

The Lord's Keep
The Market Square (On market Day)
The Blacksmith
The Mead Hall/Travelers Inn
The General Store


Around Grenzsoldat

The Elven Forest to the Southwest
The Barbarian hills to the East


In addition I need adventure ideas both in and out of the city. My eventual plan is to have the Lord recognize the player's value and ask them to swear vassalage to him (both for their utility and to avoid having a powerful uncontrolled force in his city)

Adventure Seeds

Small group of Barbarians make camp across the river, in barbarian lands but still very close.
While in the mead hall the pc's hear a loud noise from outside, looking out a [insert monster hear] has burst out of the ground in the middle of town having dug its way in.
Villagers are going missing ever since a stranger came into town (the stranger could be a red herring in order to test how the players deal with the burden of proof)


Help me playground, you're my only hope.

Relecs

Aux-Ash
2011-06-08, 06:19 AM
Hello, this is an interesting little concept and I think it already looks good. I myself run a campaign for my players taking place in and around a keep (a duke's keep mind).

By the sound of it Grenzsoldat is a stereotypical march (not to be confused with a marsh), an additionally reinforced border province.
The title associated with these kinds of provinces is the marquis (aka. markgraf, markgreve, margrave or marcher lord) so it sounds like your lord should either be a marquis or the vassal of one. The name suggests a german flavour so might I suggest Markgraf (count level, means "count of the march") or Freiherr (baron level, means "free lord")? Just as a flavour thing.

As for practical examples, I found that fleshing out the province and the bordering areas helped a lot. Putting details on the noble household, the town(s) and such can provide if not adventure hooks in themselves, then at least a great deal of help in figureing out how everything reacts to what happens.

The noble household
First of all, in case you don't know this: A noble household is not a family first and formost. But an administrative unit. The family sits at it's core, but every servant, retainer, employee are as much part of the "family" as the children are. And not seldom outrank them.

The Lord is the head of it all. He is essentially the king's governor of the province and has a great deal of responsibilities. He decides over the province and will be surrounded by a group of experts commonly refered to as the retainers. He'll regularly meet with these and they're his advisors, friends and such.
Here we'll have his:
vassals (landed nobles above knight level, usually governing a lesser demesme for him and frequently absent),
his landed knights (taking care of a fortified farm/village each)
his personal knights (his bodyguards, envoys, judges, captains and such).

Some of these, or perhaps a trusted village elder or artisan, will also be in the employed administrative positions (they can also be held by the lord himself):
Chamberlain - Responsible for the lords itenerary. The one you turn to when you want an audience
Steward - Responsible for the finances of the household. Supervises the taxcollectors and tollbooths
Seneschal - Responsible for the Lord's justice and/or the court ceremonies. Supervises the sheriffs and the knights sent out to deal with issues.
The Master of Arms - Responsible for the armoury and training. The quartermaster of sorts.
The Master of Horse - Responsible for the stables

Then we have the knights, who may or may not hold any of the above mentioned offices. These are the lord's agents. If there's a disturbance he sends a knight to check it out. These will often include at least some of the Lord's children. They are his eyes, his ears, his hands and do his will. Their word is often absolute and only their liege can override it (but if he don't trust them he wouldn't have sent them). With them there'll usually be a handful of men at arms, which can be soldiers hoping to prove themselves to be elevated to knights and the rangers you mentioned.

What will this add? Atmosphere. Don't let the players deal with the Lord. Have them deal with the master of arms, chamberlain or a knight. They're the questgivers of sorts. And one of the highest promised rewards would be a promise to mention the PC's names to the lord (which might prompt him to later make them knights). Making the noblehousehold a "massive" will actually make it seem a lot more impressive (my players love my very detailed noble household).

Beyond the knights/retainers the household will have a lot of servants. A cook with kitchen staff. Stablehands. Personal attendees for every noble (knights have the pages and their squire. The lord and lady a dozen or so people each). The keep will often have a weapon- and an armoursmith if rather large. Especially in a march. Whom will make items on the master of arm's request.
All servants live with their family's (if any. The lady's staff usually came with her from her homeprovince) inside the keep.
There'll also be taxcollectors, falconeers, park-keepers, sheriffs, mayors and such who work for the household but do not live there.

This I think will help the keep come alive to an extent. And provide some hooks. Is there a barbarian spy or assassin among the servants? Is a knight abusing his position? Is the steward embezzling money? Does one trusted knight plain dislike the PC's (but otherwise does no wrong) and make their life as miserable as he can? Maybe a knight "employs" the PC's to help him investigate some dissapearances of cattle or even people?

Note all landed nobles have landed knights in their employ (they oversee his villages) but only real high nobility have vassals. Essentially only count-level and higher.

Grenzsoldat
Right the town/village itself.

First of all. How big is it? A village (up to 1000 inhabitants), a town (up to 5000 inhabitants) or a city (bigger)? If it is just the castle village, the chances are the inhabitants will just retrat into the keep if threatened (and it'd be built to accomodate this). All major storages would also be inside the keep.
A town will most likely have it's own wall. And a city will have several (rule of thumb: one walled section of town for every 10k inhabitants). This will determine a lot. Remember... the walls primary purpose is not to keep enemies out so much as to be able to collect a toll from everyone who wants in.

Now, a village will be controlled by the village elders who convene with the knight put in charge of it. In this case they'd probably report directly to the lord, steward and/or seneschal though.
A town will be controlled by a mayor who regularly meets with the elders and/or masters (people owning their own workshops) to determine it's fate.
Cities are run by large councils consisting of all the guildmasters and the heads of the trade houses.

Villages will mostly just have one or two workshops. In this case one is a blacksmith. The other might be a barrelbinder, a ropeswain or somesuch. Something regular people needs made that require a skill. One thing to note however is this: A blacksmith gets their name from making things out of black iron, which is to say unpolished and therefore -not- weapons. They make nails, horseshoes, hoes, and stuff like that. Not swords.
Also, artisans make their items upon demand. They don't keep stocks they sell (way too expensive).
A typical workshop is owned by a master, fully trained. With him is a few employed journeymen, teens from far and wide that essentially run the place. They train the apprentices and take the orders. Everything needs to pass the masters approval, but they're essentially his overseers.
The apprentices make most of the work. They'll range from 5 years old to their later teens. Some will be the masters' own children, the rest people he has taken in.
Most workshops consist of 1 master (and his wife, who helps), 2-3 journeymen and 5-6 apprentices spread evenly age-wise.
A masterwork item means: made by the master him/herself (Yes. Herself. Female masters existed)

Towns have usually many more workshops, sometimes more than one of every craft. Maybe even a small guild. Cities have guilds for all represented trades. A guild is a mix between a union, a cartel and a crime syndicate. They protect their own, keep prices and quality level and run every competitor out of town/breaks their legs. Do not mess with a guild.

Beyond the craftsmen, most people in a city/town will be farmers, merchants and day labourers. The farmers will live near/outside the walls. Merchants will be both the lowranking ones selling stuff in booths, mediumranking one keeping storehouses and rich ones who handle caravans/shipping.
The day labourers are a mix of people carrying stuff for the merchants and seasonal workers who live in the town when they're not logging/mining/working in a quarry. There'll also be a lot of taverns if there's frequent merchant traffic. Inns will still be rare though.

There will be a lot of barbarians here for trading and/or looking for work. The barbarian languages will be a second language to everyone in town. You'll primarily find them selling stuff to the medium-ranked merchants (furs, metals, bone, food. Amber perhaps?), looking for work in quarries/mines or logging camps and... unfortunantely... selling themselves (mercenaries, thugs and ladies of negotiable affection).
There'll also be elves and people from the rest of the kingdom/duchy. Border towns tend to see much merchants traffic, not because of what they produce themselves as to what people bring there (to sell to one another).
People will come far and wide to buy elven and barbarian goods, who come there in the first place to buy goods produced in the kingdom and beyond.
Depending on level of wealth, many elves and/or people from the kingdom will be in the same positions as the barbarians will.

I saw you suggested a general store. I'd say that's very unlikely with a major market (and general stores tend to be a whole lot more modern than people think). There'll be plenty of stalls of minor merchants specialising themselves. You might have several hundred of them. But probably not a single general store. (and villages who lack minor merchants will simply travel to the local market or produce what they need). At it's height, major markets can have several thousand people visiting every day on market days.

But above all. The village must have a church/temple. The priest will probably be a community figure at least on par with the mayor/elder. Towns might even have several. Cities definantely have at least one for every district. In unorganised religions each temple will be on it's own and funded by donations/sacrefice, the priests tending to the small shrine and performing services for people coming there.
Organised religions tend to have a huge supporting structure and serve as part of the administration (performing censuses for instance). People are generally requested to attend service and the priests primarily assist the congregation with various things.

Oh... cities are mazes. Villages and towns tend to be somewhat organised around a central road, square or the surrounding farms. Paved roads are rare and so are bridges.

Rivers and lakes tend also to serve as the primary tradelanes if present.

As for plothooks:
Tensions rising between the locals and the barbarian residents, open quarrels in the streets, fistfights. Need the PC's step in to protect innocents (particularly barbarian innocents) and how will this be taken (never let a good deed go unpunished :smallwink: ). Someone stealing from merchants? People go missing? Jealousy and relationship-drama! Is the priest up to no good? Bandits attacking the tradelanes and hurting the trade? FIRE! Who started it? Food getting seriously overpriced? Does perhaps the city need a town guard? Maybe the PC's will have to organise one. Plague! Cholera! The Sweat!

Surroundings
How wild are these lands? How explored are they? A typical mediveal province consisted of 50-90 % farmland, the rest completely untouched wilderness. Is there a river? Hills? Forests (big and scary, people will stay out of them. Except hiding bandits)?
Holy sites? Shrines? Roads? Where are the lord's landed knight's farmholds?

Also... I'd suggest making several barbarian tribes. Some peaceful. Some less so. Some a bit mixed. Each of them well over a thousand if not tens of thousand people (spread out over hundreds of camps). The lord will spend a lot of time keeping them apart, buying peace and disposing of troublesome individuals. United they could easily crush the keep... so making sure they aren't is a priority.

Making them nomads keeping animals is suggested. Fits with a raiding mentality. Those kind of peoples tend to be very dependant on good fortunes and contineous expansion of their herds (and the easiest way to do this: raid. Either each others for animals or civilisation for wealth to buy animals with. Often leads to a grab what you desire mentality against non-members of the tribe).
No one unified leader. Appease one and you'll no doubt only learn that there's three more you have to appease.

Remember: Blood begets blood. If the PC's start killing tribesmen the tribes will unite and defend themselves. Go to war with the lord to stop the attacks.
Their primary motivation will be to keep their tribes safe and happy. Not destroy civilisation as we know it. Make sure in case of conflict that both sides do plenty of provoking (meaning PC's trying to achieve peace will have to step on the toes of some people thar are best buds with the lord :smallbiggrin:. People they can't publically touch.)

Oh... fearsome warriors seeking death in glorious battle? Living to raid and such. Maybe 1 % of the population. 10 % tops.

As for ploothooks:
Warlord uniting one or more tribes! Raids for animals, wealth or wives. Either big or just a handful of youths. Shamans predicting frightening portents. Bandits, barbarian or civilised (or both). Civilised men raiding barbarians (because they're not "real people"). A known camp vanishes? Everyone concerned and wants to know why, fearing the other side did it (could lead to war). Local free farmer murdered? Who did it? Tribe chased off monster... ended up in province.

Hope that helps a bit :smallsmile:

Omeganaut
2011-06-08, 08:27 AM
^what he said. Seriously, if I ever need help I am definitely asking you Aux-Ash. That was impressive.

One thing that he didn't mention is possible racial discrimination. Are the elves treated badly by everyone, by some of the population, or by very few of the population? How do they get along with the barbarians? Do the barbarians have any defining characteristics that set them apart from the townsfolk or each other? With the way you describe it, it sounds like elves are important trade partners, but may not be respected in the city proper, forcing them to go through intermediaries. The elves may not mind, as they do not enjoy being in such a smelly, ugly city. With barbarian tribes in close contact, they would intermarry, keeping most physical differences the same in each tribe, but some may have special practices like the Flatheads who bound their heads in such a way as to make their skulls grow flat on top, or the Chinese who believed tiny feet were beautiful, and bound the feet of little girls.

hydroplatypus
2011-06-08, 02:47 PM
On the elves trading with the village

It sounds like the elves live in a forest. Generally speaking forests do not support large populations, so perhaps the elven population has gotten too large and they trade bows etc. for the town's excess food production.

Also if the elves live in a forest they probably don't have access to mines, so anything metallic is likely to be traded to the elves.

just some ideas.

Szilard
2011-06-08, 06:38 PM
Grenzsoldat... is that Hungarian, some other language, or just randomness?

Relecs
2011-06-13, 02:44 AM
Hello, this is an interesting little concept and I think it already looks good. I myself run a campaign for my players taking place in and around a keep (a duke's keep mind)...


...Hope that helps a bit :smallsmile:

Ok first of all, yes it helped. I have been attempting to work on fleshing out my noble house since you sent this post. I have names and a few ideas for some of the more important figures around the castle, my use of the titles varies a little from your own due to the fact that I'm going off of a 2nd edition reference book for titles.

• Lord Heinrich von Casinaus ruler of Grenzsoldat and all that lands of the north eastern province
o Sworn Executioner Karl Leudigar
• Sir Caelius Morcant Lord High Ranger (Knight)
• Sir Valerian Otmar Lord High Justice to the north eastern province
• Lady Octavia Morgana Master at Arms to Grenzsoldat castle and champion of the North Eastern Province (Knight)
• Lord High Chamberlain Godwin Adolphus (Knight)
• Sir Wilhelm Berengar Lord High Chancellor of the eastern province (Noble)
• Sir Alaric Lovis Lord High Marshal (Knight)
o Chief Porter Pontius Wolf
• Lady Lucina Pax, High Inquisitor of the north eastern province (Noble)
• Marshal of the Stables Ulrich Terentius

What I'm thinking of for other npc's that I can predict the players will interact with is...

• Vassals
• Knights
• Squires
• Mayor
• Tavern Owner
o Employees of the Tavern
• Blacksmith
• Some Guards

Clearly I need to flesh these npc's out more this is just the names and positions of a few. for the other positions I was wondering what people thought of the technique whereby you have a number of names and personalities and you attach them to npc's as the players interact with them in order to avoid fleshing everyone out prior to the game?

It just seems a bit daunting to create every npc even in just the castle because after every squire, servant, and guard there would have to be near 50 or more people. A number which I can see myself naming for a large city, or fleshing out fully for a large chunk of a campaign but not doing either just for a single castle.

As far as whether Grenzsoldat is a town/village/city/ etc. I'm not 100% sure yet, my current thought is that it is a rather small population (a small town at most) but it is one of the only settlements in the province and so serves as a center for a very large amount of farming population.

I'm still trying to decide how exactly Grenzsoldat will be ruled, Possibly a elder of group of elders, or possibly a elected mayor who reports to the chancellor who in turn reports to the lord.

With it being so small I'm going to follow your advice and scrap the general store, there will be a monthly market day and most of the craftsmen will sell things out of their workshop during the rest of the month.

As far as barbarians in the town I'm not sure yet. My original plan was to have the Barbarians avoid the society but I can see room for interesting role playing if I included them as members of the city on occasion, in any case this is something to consider

@Szilard it's german it translates to border guard not exactly original but my players don't need to know that :smalltongue:

Additional fact about the campaign world
Magic
Magic is mostly believed to be just stories and fantasy, the unnatural long lives of elves and dwarves isn't seen as magic it just is. Legend tells of magical weapons etc. but nobody puts much stock in it.
Religion
There is no religion although there is a general consensus among the civilized races that there is some sort of peaceful afterlife which I am considering calling the Silver Fields

Further Plot hooks which need more fleshing
A representative of the Monarch is visiting/inspecting and something happens to/because of him. This would allow players to gain some influence/enemies outside of the town so that future threats or good fortunes don't always have to come from inside the village.

Anyways this still requires a lot of work and I would appreciate all the advice/help I can get. I special thanks goes out to Aux-Ash who provided me with tons of places to start at.