Multiattack

[Rhaegar14]

Is there an easy, LA +0 way to qualify for it?

[NeoSeraphi]

Absolutely. Be a razorclaw shifter (Eberron) with the Extra Shifter Trait (longtooth) feat. Thats two claws and one bite.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

permanent girallon blessing.

[NineThePuma]

Kobold with the web enhancement.

[Rhaegar14]

Kobold with the web enhancement.

Since I don't think Shifter actually works by RAW, is there any other way? Because honestly, a Kobold could not possibly work any less with the fluff for this character. XD

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Totemist, with the right melds.

[GodGoblin]

Unless its so not fitting it actually comes full circle to be perfect? :smalltongue: Out of curiousity what is the concept?

Im thought shifter did work but if it doesnt you could always take the bite attack one and build a twf character with it, not exactly what you are looking for but kinda works

[Rhaegar14]

I'm building a Wild Shape Ranger 5 / Nature's Warrior 3 / Warshaper 1-2 (only 1 if I have to take LA +1) / Master of Many Shapes 10. Not necessarily in that order.

The fluff is that he grew up as a son of a Druid. His sister also ended up becoming a Druid, and fell in love with and later became engaged to another member of the local order. One day, while he and his sister were walking through the woods (or other environment), they were attacked by a Dire Tiger (again, subject to change). He tried to fend it off, but he was beaten down and his sister was killed. Help arrived before it killed him too. Long story short, her fiancée lost his faith in nature, fell, and became a Blighter, so now the character is basically chasing him around.

The reason this doesn't work for Kobolds? Romantic love doesn't exist for them.

[GodGoblin]

So it doesnt work because Kobolds cant love? :smallconfused:

If you think about it they are Dragon kin and we all know Dragons love everything :smallwink:

[Rhaegar14]

Kobolds only rarely engage in any activity resembling romantic love. Most find their communal life among tribe members satisfying enough. A kobold can live her whole life without forming a bond to any sort of significant other...

Kobolds who form an emotional attachment to another kobold are drawn to that one out of mutual respect and increased productivity. The potential partners often meet because of having to work with one another, and then find that they work better jointly than they did alone.

Not exactly what I was thinking. :-P

[GodGoblin]

Haha good point, I think Shifter is the way to go personally. Im sure there is a way to get the multi attack to work but may take some effort on your part.

[Rhaegar14]

The reason Shifter doesn't work is because of group-accepted rules interpretation... natural weapons gained only while shifting are too temporary, so to speak, to allow one to qualify for a feat.

[GodGoblin]

Oh I see! In that case Im ratehr stumped, this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19546874/Master_Player_Race_List_Version_2.0)may help you however. Maybe the Anthro animals will have natural attacks.

EDIT- Oh Skarn from the Incarnum books! they are pretty much humans but have natural spines to attack with!

DOUBLE EDIT- This may be silly but a Warforged with Jaws of death and its natural slam would work, could be an adopted brother? :smalltongue:

[kenjigoku]

The reason Shifter doesn't work is because of group-accepted rules interpretation... natural weapons gained only while shifting are too temporary, so to speak, to allow one to qualify for a feat.

There is a feat called Shifter Multiattack. ECS page 60.

Natural attack rules state.


d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons)
Natural Weapons
Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

Unless otherwise noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 20.

When a creature has more than one natural weapon, one of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. All the creature’s remaining natural weapons are secondary.

The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.

Natural weapons have types just as other weapons do. The most common are summarized below.

Bite
The creature attacks with its mouth, dealing piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage.

Claw or Talon
The creature rips with a sharp appendage, dealing piercing and slashing damage.

Gore
The creature spears the opponent with an antler, horn, or similar appendage, dealing piercing damage.

Slap or Slam
The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

Sting
The creature stabs with a stinger, dealing piercing damage. Sting attacks usually deal damage from poison in addition to hit point damage.

Tentacle
The creature flails at opponents with a powerful tentacle, dealing bludgeoning (and sometimes slashing) damage.



Sample Shifter

STR 13
DEX 14 + 2 = 16
CON 15 +1 (LV4) = 16
INT 12 - 2 = 10
WIS 10
CHA 8 - 2 = 6

Razorclaw Trait

Flaw
Foggy-Eye: -1 on Ranged Attacks

Class Fighter

Feat
1: Healing Factor
Flaw1: Shifter Magnetism (PGEB)
F2: Weapon Focus (Claw)
3: Extra Shifter Trait (Longtooth)
F4: Weapon Specialization (Claw)
6: Shifter Multiattack
F6: Weapon Focus (Bite)

Net result at Level 6

Shift (3/day) for 10 round each time.
+2 STR while Shifting.

Attacks look something like

Claw (+9/+9 1d4+4) and Bite (+7 1d6+1)

Not an amazing build but a flavorful one :)

[Cog]

The reason Shifter doesn't work is because of group-accepted rules interpretation... natural weapons gained only while shifting are too temporary, so to speak, to allow one to qualify for a feat.
If that's your group's interpretation, that's alright, but it isn't RAW. If you can wait to get it, though, Wild Shape is far less temporary and so your group might let you qualify with that ability; note that this one is officially approved, as Weapon Focus: Claw has been a suggested feat for Druids who have no claws in their natural forms [citation needed].

Warforged can get the extra attacks with a couple feats out of Races of Eberron (Second Slam and Jaws of Death).

[FMArthur]

Warforged probably doesn't work for the story for similar reasons to kobolds, but with the aforementioned adopted-family approach, I think that a lack of understanding of the human Blighter's emotions could actually just add to the story. He needs to find out why as much as anything else. There is potential for the story to work using a race's lack of proper empathy, not despite it.

Anyway, more on-topic, I did find one other LA +0 race with natural attacks: Skarn (Magic of Incarnum). These are humans with kinda-ridiculous-looking toothy spines sticking out of their backs, forearms and calves. There doesn't seem to be anything in them that conflicts with your story, but I haven't read their whole section.

There's also Hengeyokai. Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures are a race of shapeshifting animals. In animal form, Cat, Crab and Badger Hengeyokai possess 2 or more natural attacks. They can stay in animal form indefinitely. The 3.5 update changed their type to humanoid (shapechanger) and removed their level adjustment.

[Darrin]

Kenku Monk 1 should work... medium size with two claw attacks, and unarmed strike counts as a "third" natural weapon. I think you pick your class before you pick feats, or at least that's what the PHB says on p. 58-59. Silverbrow Human Monk 1 with Shape Soulmeld: Dragon Claws might also work.

[GodGoblin]

I think Skarn are a good fit mechanically but the reason a family of them are druids would seem a little forced IMO. Ooh I do like that extra level added to the Warforged idea!

On a side note if it helps Ive always had an idea for a Warforged Druid who was a burnt out Warforged husk dumped in the forest but eventually someone repaired it using mainly wooden pieces (Iron wood body) But those pieces were actually Live wood that contained the spirit of a Dryad. The Dryads spirit gave life back to the Warforged and the Druidic powers. Could play them as 2 minds in one body, a combo of both, just the dryads mind with a new Warforged body or my personal favorite is that the Dryad uses the Warforged as its Spirtual tree and sleeps inside it :smallbiggrin:

To fit your idea the person who repaired the Warforged could have been the girls father.

[Nidogg]

I would get Shape Soulmeld: Dragon Tail and be a Skarn. Or any other race if the DM accepts that two fists makes two natural attacks. The beauty of dragon tail is that it does not need to be bound in order to get the natural attack. Also I dont know about this but would a Druid, who is wildshaped, retain shaped soulmelds?

[dextercorvia]

I would get Shape Soulmeld: Dragon Tail and be a Skarn. Or any other race if the DM accepts that two fists makes two natural attacks. The beauty of dragon tail is that it does not need to be bound in order to get the natural attack. Also I dont know about this but would a Druid, who is wildshaped, retain shaped soulmelds?

The problem with the Dragon Tail soulmeld is that it isn't a natural attack. It can only be used as a standard action.

[Cog]

The problem with the Dragon Tail soulmeld is that it isn't a natural attack. It can only be used as a standard action.
I'm not so sure about this. One sentence describes giving you the weapon; another describes how you "can" attack with it as a standard action, not that you must. There are other restrictions on its use, and I suspect the standard-action-only might be the intent, but if so they neglected to say that you "must" use a standard action to attack with it.

[dextercorvia]

It never gives you a "weapon" it describes the shape of the soulmeld. Compare that to what it says in MoI. "You can use your two claws as natural weapons that deal 1d6 points of damage plus your Strength modifier."

[Cog]

"A draconic tail that can strike foes, dealing 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage + your Strength modifier," isn't a weapon? 1d8+Str sounds a whole lot more like a weapon description than an aesthetic description to me.

[dextercorvia]

It then goes on to tell you exactly how you can use it. It doesn't tell you that you can use it as part of a full attack. The wording for Dragon Tail is much closer to Manticore Belt than Kruthik Claws. Or would you say that you can make a Manticore volley with each attack in a full attack, because it doesn't say you can't?

[Cog]

No, I wouldn't. Manticore Belt says, "You can do X as a standard action. Here's what happens when you do X," and nothing else. Dragon Tail says, "You have X. As a standard action, you can do Y."

[Thurbane]

1 level dip of Duskblade (or other spont. arcanist), plus 2 levels of Dragon Disciple. Yeah, not a great option, but it will get you claws and a bite with no LA.

Otherwise, Kenku with Willing Deformity (teeth) would also work (unless the DM rules Kenku ineligible, having a beak instead of teeth). Though it does mean locking in your race, taking 2 vile feats, and being evil. You can get the feats by worshipping an Elder Evil...

[Coidzor]

Not exactly what I was thinking. :-P

Well, simply by being a druidically raised kobold you'd no longer be going by Races of the Dragon fluff for a kobold raised in stereotypical kobold society in the first place. :smalltongue:


Warforged probably doesn't work for the story for similar reasons to kobolds, but with the aforementioned adopted-family approach, I think that a lack of understanding of the human Blighter's emotions could actually just add to the story. He needs to find out why as much as anything else. There is potential for the story to work using a race's lack of proper empathy, not despite it.

It would explain why he dumped CHA and their combined wild empathy was ineffective and why he wasn't et too....

[Rhaegar14]

Actually, the Shifter Multiattack mentioned by kenjigoku suits my needs perfectly, but thanks to all of you anyway.

Edit: on a somewhat related note, how would I equip this character?

[Coidzor]

Edit: on a somewhat related note, how would I equip this character?

What books can you use?

[Rhaegar14]

Pretty much anything is fair game, since PDFs are allowed. I know Beastskin armor and the improved DMG version, but after that I'm stumped. VoP was one thought I had, since the bonuses would still apply while wild shaped.

[Coidzor]

NO DON'T TAKE VOP EVER, NO NOT EVEN THEN!

*ahem*

Now that it's out of the way, there's a nifty little item called a wilding clasp. Combined with the magic item compendium's stacking rules you can get a lot of bang for your buck by having a really sweet necklace of natural attacks that also boosts your wisdom and natural armor.

edit: and you keep it when wildshaping. Which is the main draw. The stacking just means that one wilding clasp goes all the further.

[NineThePuma]

If you're allowed Homebrew, Drolyt's VoP is 'better' than the original, in the sense that you aren't horribly gimped by taking it. The boosts scale slightly better, and you still get about 50 GP worth the wiggle room to have equipment.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Actually, the Shifter Multiattack mentioned by kenjigoku suits my needs perfectly, but thanks to all of you anyway.

Edit: on a somewhat related note, how would I equip this character?

Amulet of Mighty fists, followed by Strength-boosting items. You may also want something to boost your movement speed, I've found that full attacks are hard to make very often in D&D.

[Rhaegar14]

Amulet of Mighty fists, followed by Strength-boosting items. You may also want something to boost your movement speed, I've found that full attacks are hard to make very often in D&D.

Don't like 90% of magic items just become useless when you Wild Shape? Thus why I can't figure out what items to get lol.

[Coidzor]

Amulet of Mighty fists, followed by Strength-boosting items. You may also want something to boost your movement speed, I've found that full attacks are hard to make very often in D&D.

He can select forms that allow pounce and have good movement speeds due to the wildshaping+MOMF, so if he's not adjacent, not within a five-foot step, and not-within charge range for a creature with a 40-70 foot move speed, he's not going to be making a melee attack anyway.


Don't like 90% of magic items just become useless when you Wild Shape? Thus why I can't figure out what items to get lol.

Wilding clasps(Magic of Faerun), as I mentioned when combined with Magic Item Compendium stacking rules, help mitigate this by making whatever they're attached to come over with you. Also, many items you can take off and then put back on when you wildshape in advance.

Some good reading material on the subject of master of many forms and wildshaping in general. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules)


If you're allowed Homebrew, Drolyt's VoP is 'better' than the original, in the sense that you aren't horribly gimped by taking it. The boosts scale slightly better, and you still get about 50 GP worth the wiggle room to have equipment.

Which means it's still bad enough that people who aren't deadset on VoP should be discouraged from taking it rather than encouraged.

[olentu]

He can select forms that allow pounce and have good movement speeds due to the wildshaping+MOMF, so if he's not adjacent, not within a five-foot step, and not-within charge range for a creature with a 40-70 foot move speed, he's not going to be making a melee attack anyway.



Wilding clasps(Magic of Faerun), as I mentioned when combined with Magic Item Compendium stacking rules, help mitigate this by making whatever they're attached to come over with you. Also, many items you can take off and then put back on when you wildshape in advance.

Some good reading material on the subject of master of many forms and wildshaping in general. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules)

Actually as I recall the clasps appear in the magic item compendium as well. Er probably masters of the wild also.

[Coidzor]

Actually as I recall the clasps appear in the magic item compendium as well.

So they do. Silly Master of Many Forms Bible.