Drawmij's Instant Summoning

[UnholyPenance]

I was flipping through the PHB last night and came across this spell. After reading over a few times, i came to the realization that it's utter crap. You spend a 1000gp sapphire to summon a nonliving item that has your Arcane Mark on it from anywhere, excluding from another creature's possession. It wouldn't be so bad, except that it's a 7th spell. That's a very weak sauce 7th spell. Am i overlooking some big clause or is it just that awful?

[Whammydill]

Good for MacGuffin defense I guess. Though I'm sure if people are capable of turning Prestidigitation into a weapon of mass destruction, they can come up with something for DIS.

You could always be mean and utilize it on the keystone of a massive landslide and threaten the nearby populace and force them to listen to your poetry.

Or your DM can be mean and make you roll a strength check to crush the gem which without assistance would be quite hard I'd imagine.

[Zale]

You could use it to summon a potent magical item that (For whatever reason) you don't want to carry around.

Do constructs count as "Living"?

[Lapak]

I was flipping through the PHB last night and came across this spell. After reading over a few times, i came to the realization that it's utter crap. You spend a 1000gp sapphire to summon a nonliving item that has your Arcane Mark on it from anywhere, excluding from another creature's possession. It wouldn't be so bad, except that it's a 7th spell. That's a very weak sauce 7th spell. Am i overlooking some big clause or is it just that awful?Why it's 7th level: it's a legacy spell from earlier editions. Honestly, that's pretty much why. Both Teleport and extradimensional spaces were less accessible in earlier editions (Teleport was risky, there weren't clear rules for magical items,) so a no-failure spell that brought something to YOU was a pretty potent effect. And critical item destruction was considered closer to fair game generally - a good reason to use the Instant Summons would be to pull your safely-stored backup spellbooks to you after your regular ones got toasted.

It is good for any ace-in-the-hole thing you need to have access to but don't want to carry around for whatever reason. Fragile things, plot-related items that you know the enemy wants but need to get to a certain place without it getting stolen in transit, and so on. So it's nice, but yeah; the reason it's seventh level is the same reason that Ice Storm is 4th level: it was that level before, and no one reassessed its value later.

[Cog]

Do constructs count as "Living"?
They count as "not objects".

[Zale]

Well, crap. :smallannoyed:


So, we have "Summon back-up spellbook" or "Summon plot-important item".

[Psyren]

"Summon phylactery" could be useful.

[NamelessNPC]

Does it have a limit on the size of the object? or you could teleport, say, the moon?

[Fax Celestis]

Well, crap. :smallannoyed:


So, we have "Summon back-up spellbook" or "Summon plot-important item".

Prep for it right, and it's "Summon The Right Scroll". It's basically turning one of your seventh-level slots into an empty slot of "whatever scroll you want", given a little bit of extra time. Plus, you can cast it a bunch during downtime, and then just carry a bag of elfstones pokeballs sapphires around in a handy haversack to get the right thing at the right time.

[IthroZada]

Does a castle count as a single item? Because that would change the dynamics of a siege or invasion quite a bit. You know, for installing a foothold. Or dropping it on their castle.

[Cog]

Target: One object weighing 10 lb. or less whose longest dimension is 6 ft. or less

A very small castle, maybe.

[IthroZada]

A very small castle, maybe.

Pixies everywhere shall be overjoyed.

[Wings of Peace]

Spellbook defense for the extra paranoid?

[imperialspectre]

A very small castle, maybe.

So Shrink Item the castle.

[Cog]

So Shrink Item the castle.

That gets you to not quite 100' on a side. A watchtower, maybe...

[Tvtyrant]

Um.... What about just summoning a cube of Instant Fortress? Then your completely safe until they can break it open.

Also, you can hide things in your genesis plane and summon them hence, making it very good for hiding things you have no intention of ever allowing other people to get to.

[squeekenator]

Um.... What about just summoning a cube of Instant Fortress? Then your completely safe until they can break it open.

Alternatively, just carry the Instant Fortress and save yourself 1000gp and a 7th-level spell slot.

[NNescio]

No, no, no...

You use it to file legal papers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0678.html)

[gbprime]

Dweomerkeeper supercharges this spell, as Supernatural Spell removes the 1000gp component requirement. Armed with that ability, you can essentially cast this spell on all your key possessions during downtime.

Without the ability to ignore the material component, however, this spell is a failure. Get looted, want to summon your backup spellbook from whereever you have it stashed? No problem, just crush that 1000gp gem... oh wait... didn't you get looted and that's the whole reason you need your other spellbook? Bet you don't have that gem on you right now, eh?

[Cog]

Dweomerkeeper supercharges this spell, as Supernatural Spell removes the 1000gp component requirement. Armed with that ability, you can essentially cast this spell on all your key possessions during downtime.
I'm not sure how you're planning to crush a gem that never existed.

[gbprime]

I'm not sure how you're planning to crush a gem that never existed.

Speak the phrase and make a crushing motion. Component not required. :smallbiggrin:

[NNescio]

On a related note, how would a Stilled Instant Summons work? Does the gem just... crush itself?

[John Campbell]

Could be useful for the classic museum heist. Walk in, drop an invisible arcane mark on the target item, walk out with nothing more than you came in with. Later, at your leisure, summon the target item to you in your place of safety hundreds of miles away.

It's not clear to me from the 3.5 description whether the item has to be present for the instant summons casting, or if you can do it on any object you've ever arcane marked. You did need to be able to touch it in AD&D, but the arcane mark wasn't required... though could be used to do... not really anything, as far as I can tell. They're both just really badly written spell descriptions.

[Fax Celestis]

On a related note, how would a Stilled Instant Summons work? Does the gem just... crush itself?
Crushing the gem is not a function of the casting, so it wouldn't do anything.

[blazingshadow]

shadowcraft mages can use it without components as well. otherwise just use shades (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shades.htm) to replicate the spell in an emergency

[Whammydill]

Could be useful for the classic museum heist. Walk in, drop an invisible arcane mark on the target item, walk out with nothing more than you came in with. Later, at your leisure, summon the target item to you in your place of safety hundreds of miles away.

It's not clear to me from the 3.5 description whether the item has to be present for the instant summons casting, or if you can do it on any object you've ever arcane marked. You did need to be able to touch it in AD&D, but the arcane mark wasn't required... though could be used to do... not really anything, as far as I can tell. They're both just really badly written spell descriptions.


I like this.

[Amnestic]

As if a Museum wouldn't have constant detection and anti-theft spells active on it, especially with items that you're willing to blow 1000gp+7th level spell slot on.

And of course, you also have to deal with what exactly constitutes as "possession" of an item and how abstract you want it to be.

Disregarding shadowcraft mages/dweomerkeepers though, how would people fix it to make it a decent spell to know and cast? Would it be as simple as removing the expensive component?

[blazingshadow]

summon components is a cantrip i think. lowering the level of the spell (at least to 5th) might be good

[Zale]

Even so, anything you could summon by the spell would be small enough to just carry around.

[Fax Celestis]

And of course, you also have to deal with what exactly constitutes as "possession" of an item and how abstract you want it to be.

"Possession" is pretty clearly defined by the game as "on the person of or in the hands of a creature".

[Amnestic]

"Possession" is pretty clearly defined by the game as "on the person of or in the hands of a creature".

Links? Not doubting you, just want to see it in writing for future reference.

[Whammydill]

Yeah, pretty sure I'd throw a book at anyone who tried to rules lawyer that "possession" in that sense, meant anything other than the way Fax Celestis put it...

I'm all for a good debate about RAI/RAW but some of the "well technically..." stuff goes too far.

[Fax Celestis]

Links? Not doubting you, just want to see it in writing for future reference.

It's in a weird spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm), but:


Use-Activated

This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word, usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.

[John Campbell]

Note also the distinction between "in the possession of" (same plane) and "has claimed ownership of" (different planes) right in the instant summons description.

[Ernir]

This spell is never going to be good enough to, say, have Sorcerers take it.

Which really sucks. I've been trying to write the nukes and traps out of the core Sor/Wiz list lately, and this spell is just infuriating. I have lowered its level by 2, removed the material component, and added an option to summon heavier items, and you know what?
It's still crap.

[Lapak]

This spell is never going to be good enough to, say, have Sorcerers take it.

Which really sucks. I've been trying to write the nukes and traps out of the core Sor/Wiz list lately, and this spell is just infuriating. I have lowered its level by 2, removed the material component, and added an option to summon heavier items, and you know what?
It's still crap.Actually, that sounds a lot more attractive. Think of it as a post-combat loot extractor that can pull around way more than a Handy Haversack ever could.

- Get yourself a big box or three, in various sizes, ranging from 'really big trunk' to 'room-sized.' Put a strong lock and an Arcane Mark on each.
- Go adventuring.
- When you've got a great big pile of loot that's too unwieldy to get back to civilization without casting Teleport over and over and over again, Summon the box.
- Put the dragon's hoard / king's treasury / solid gold sarcophagus in the box.
- Go home, Teleporting or otherwise.
- Summon the box again.

When the spell is free, this becomes a pretty good deal. Actually, now that I think about it, this makes Teleport-based trade routes available WAY before any other solution like permanent teleport gates or whatnot; a wizard could make absurd money for casting Teleport (to target city) and Summons (bring the wagon of goods along after.)

[Taelas]

Remove the material component and it is an entirely reasonable spell purely for the ability to pull whatever handy object you wish to you at a moment's notice.

7th level is a bit high, though.

[Qwertystop]

Even better if you say that if you are fairly familiar with it, you don't need the Arcane Mark. That way you would be able to summon anything you have seen/touched fairly often, without having to plan ahead of time that you might need it. It becomes a "get my stuff back" spell, as well as "get me the stuff that I had the foresight ahead of time to prepare for this spell but still didn't bother to use something like an (extended) Secret Chest (will get up to 11 cubic feet of stuff at the level you can first cast Instant Summons) or just put it in one of the extradimensional spaces I will probably have by level 11."

[Zale]

When the spell is free, this becomes a pretty good deal. Actually, now that I think about it, this makes Teleport-based trade routes available WAY before any other solution like permanent teleport gates or whatnot; a wizard could make absurd money for casting Teleport (to target city) and Summons (bring the wagon of goods along after.)

That could work. Have two different wizards from different cities both cast Arcane Mark & Instant Summons on the large box/trunk/wagon.

Then goods could be loaded in one city, summoned by the wizard in the other city. Then the wizard in the first city just summons it back afterwards.

Cheap magical transport and trading.

[navar100]

On a related note, how would a Stilled Instant Summons work? Does the gem just... crush itself?

The same way Silent Power Word spells and Silent Holy Word work.

:smallsmile: