Help With Rogue/Scout/Fighter Build

[Mr.Smashy]

Currently 4th level, and I am playing a halfing. I have a few Ideas, primarily focusing on the fact that Dodge bonuses stack. In combat, I plan on being Highly Mobile, and being able to dodge just about anything. I have gone this far:

Halfling
Str: 10
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 12
Cha: 13

Rogue 1 (Halfling sub level in ROtW)/ Scout 1/ Fighter 2

Feats: PBS, Precise Shot, Dodge, Mobility.

Essentially play keep away. I want to find a way to combine Confound the Big Folk with a way to prevent AO's in melee other than Arrow Mind. I plead with the Playground, help me out.

[myancey]

Could you be more specific as to how you want help? Like, purely feats or progression or class ideas? And what sources are you allowed?

First off, can you retrain dodge and mobility? Mobility is cool for AoOs, I suppose...but not worth dodge. My recommendation is pimping out the tumble skill. Check it out.

A DC 25 tumble check lets you:


Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent) as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Check separately for each opponent. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.

A simple DC 15 lets you:


Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks of opportunity normally. Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.

Then you can get rid of those two horrible feats..unless you want spring attack or the Shadowdancer prestige class.

Oh, and I believe tumble still qualifies as movement for the sake of your scout damage...skirmish damage, I think it is called...?

[Mr.Smashy]

I suppose I could. I will talk to the DM. I haven't used the Mobility feat yet, so I don't see why not. I would like to take feats that revolve around increasing land speed, as well as increasing Dodge bonus to AC. I already plan on taking Imp. Init. I have my heart set on being the first to go so that I can always get the SA to start a fight.

Again, I am looking for good feats, mostly focusing on mobility, but any other good ones would be welcomed. I am intimately familiar with Darkstalker, and Craven, PS, IPS.

[Lisselys]

Go Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Scout 18, with Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher.
You don't need anything else.
You just killed pretty much everything in the game.

[Cog]

Go Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Scout 18, with Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher.
You don't need anything else.
You just killed pretty much everything in the game.
Swift Ambusher does extraordinarily little here. It only gives you anything much with a Rogue-favoring build.

[Fineous Orlon]

Go Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Scout 18, with Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher.
You don't need anything else.
You just killed pretty much everything in the game.

This combo cold be really fun. The scout levels will yield some initiative bonuses that you were looking for as well as other class features.

You don't have to go that particular way. As long as you have 3 levels of scout with those 2 feats, you can mix and match the other levels. For instance, you could protect your BAB and get archery feats and some divine casting by taking the other levels in Ranger.

Good Hunting.

[Feytalist]

Added to the fact that he is already Rogue1/Scout1/Fighter2.

[Lisselys]

This combo cold be really fun. The scout levels will yield some initiative bonuses that you were looking for as well as other class features.

You don't have to go that particular way. As long as you have 3 levels of scout with those 2 feats, you can mix and match the other levels. For instance, you could protect your BAB and get archery feats and some divine casting by taking the other levels in Ranger.

Good Hunting.

Yes but the fact is, that you don't continue with your SA progression.
In this way you are just something like:
"I shoot. Do I Hit? Great! It's..Well...
Bow's normal damage... Then 10d6 from sneak attack 'cause I've got a nasty hide... Then 5d6 from Skirmish... Then *Add flavor for every single ability you COULD get*
It's an average 52.5 per arrow, without even counting things like Dead Eye, spells and every other feat you could have.

[Fineous Orlon]

Yes but the fact is, that you don't continue with your SA progression.
In this way you are just something like:
"I shoot. Do I Hit? Great! It's..Well...
Bow's normal damage... Then 10d6 from sneak attack 'cause I've got a nasty hide... Then 5d6 from Skirmish... Then *Add flavor for every single ability you COULD get*
It's an average 52.5 per arrow, without even counting things like Dead Eye, spells and every other feat you could have.

Yes, choose carefully to protect the progressions you want, and plan for how to impliment that damage consistently.

They are a fun pair of feats.

[Cog]

Yes, choose carefully to protect the progressions you want, and plan for how to impliment that damage consistently.
The only set I'm aware of that might stack usefully uses Rogue; with Ascetic Rogue it advances unarmed damage, and with Swift Ambusher it advances skirmish, all on top of sneak attack. You can get that down to just Monk and Rogue, using the halfling monk sub out of Races of the Wild to snag skirmish too, but I doubt it's worth it.

[Gwendol]

Agreed with previous poster: max out tumble to "always" be able to fire your bow without provoking. Add in anklets of translocation or the Boots of the Acrobat for some extra movement when needed.

Why not go ranger 2 instead of fighter? You get rapid shot... might be a better choice than PBS and precise shot? If you are allowed to retrain...

[Greenish]

Agreed with previous poster: max out tumble to "always" be able to fire your bow without provoking.Tumble allows moving without provoking AoO, not shooting/throwing without provoking AoO, which is relevant since OP wants to be in the same square as the target.

[Feytalist]

Tumble allows moving without provoking AoO, not shooting/throwing without provoking AoO, which is relevant since OP wants to be in the same square as the target.

I cannot remember at the moment, but isn't there some sort of Close Combat Shot feat that allows you to fire into melee without provoking AoE?
I know OotBI has it as an ability, but that's it.

[Greenish]

I cannot remember at the moment, but isn't there some sort of Close Combat Shot feat that allows you to fire into melee without provoking AoE?Combat Archery, but that's epic. Might be others.

Personally, I'd ask Arrow Mind's effect to be rolled into Point-Blank Shot.

[Mad Gene Vane]

If you are going to be primarily fighting with a bow, as opposed to melee, I'd drop the Dodge -> Mobility -> Spring Attack chain of feats.

It'd make more sense to take Shot on the Run, which is like Spring Attack for ranged weapons, where you can shoot and move in the same turn.

Being a half-ling, I'd suggest taking enough levels in Scout to increase your base move.

The Scout gets a total of +20 feet of move. I think the first +10 comes at 3rd level and the next +10 comes at 10th level, so you'd be up there with medium sized creatures for movement in a couple of levels.

Doesn't make sense to be a character that prizes mobility and being all over the battlefield, when your character has a base movement of only 20 feet, versus other characters with base movements of 30 feet.

[Feytalist]

Doesn't make sense to be a character that prizes mobility and being all over the battlefield, when your character has a base movement of only 20 feet, versus other characters with base movements of 30 feet.

There are very many items, spells, abilities and feats that increase base movement. Some of them even stack.

[Gwendol]

Still, increasing base movement for a mobile archer/skirmisher makes a lot of sense.

Oh, and why aiming for firing bow at adjacent targets? Bows are ridiculously easy to sunder, unless you're a ranger and under the effect of Arrow Mind since you don't threaten any squares (or wield an elvencourt bow), so no AoO's for the sunder attempt. Better focus on thrown weapons in that case (daggers) since the range of the bow isn't important.

[Feytalist]

I think it's more a "would like to have that option if/when I get into melee" than "wade into battle with my trusty whack-a-bow".

In the case of the latter; elvencraft bows.

[Greenish]

Oh, and why aiming for firing bow at adjacent targets?He's not. He's aiming for throwing weapons at targets whose space he shares.

[Thespianus]

Swift Ambusher does extraordinarily little here. It only gives you anything much with a Rogue-favoring build.

Seems to be better to swap Swift Ambusher for Craven in this build. Craven will net you a better damage output in all those yummy Sneak Attack situations.

[Mr.Smashy]

He's not. He's aiming for throwing weapons at targets whose space he shares.

Greenish is right. I Know that it is not optimized. I don't care. I wanted a little one that can run around the battlefield faster than a quickling(60 ft movement) and was really nasty using thrown weapons. Was doing to be a Kobold, but after a buddy showed me Halfling with the racial sub levels I was sold. My goal is to get under foot with Underfoot Combatant and CtBF, and Skeak Attack (combining the term Skirmish/Sneak attack to Skeak) the H**L out of everything.

[Gwendol]

Sounds like a lot of fun: go for it!

[Greenish]

Halfling rogue sub levels are pretty poor, I recommend being a kobold.

[Darrin]

Personally, I'd ask Arrow Mind's effect to be rolled into Point-Blank Shot.

You can get the equivalent of a permanent arrow mind effect with an Elvencraft bow (+300 GP, Races of the Wild) and a 1-level dip into Exotic Weapon Master (to pick up Close-Quarters Ranged Combat). However, this costs at least two feats, EWP (any exotic) and Weapon Focus (any exotic). Still, might be worth it if you can convince your DM to let you swap/retrain Dodge and Mobility.

I recommend an elvencraft Bone Bow from Frostburn, same damage as a composite greatbow, but it auto-adjusts to your Str bonus.

[Greenish]

You can get the equivalent of a permanent arrow mind effect with an Elvencraft bow (+300 GP, Races of the Wild) and a 1-level dip into Exotic Weapon Master (to pick up Close-Quarters Ranged Combat). However, this costs at least two feats, EWP (any exotic) and Weapon Focus (any exotic).Right, I'd forgotten EWM. Still, that doesn't allow you to make the AoO with your ranged weapon.

[Edit]: And also, he wants thrown weapons, not bows. :smallamused:

[veven]

Instead of spending 2 feats to get to shot on the run I would recommend taking Travel Devotion. It's only 1/day for 1 minute but its immensely better. It gives you an extra move action each turn so you can move and full attack at the same time.

If you can't retrain dodge and mobility then I also highly recommend taking Elusive Target from complete warrior. It doesn't directly effect your mobility/archery but it shuts down your dodge targets power attacks. If you get caught in a flank you can trick your dodge target into hitting his flanking buddy.

[Brian_Gishlover]

Greenish is right. I Know that it is not optimized. I don't care. I wanted a little one that can run around the battlefield faster than a quickling(60 ft movement) and was really nasty using thrown weapons. Was doing to be a Kobold, but after a buddy showed me Halfling with the racial sub levels I was sold. My goal is to get under foot with Underfoot Combatant and CtBF, and Skeak Attack (combining the term Skirmish/Sneak attack to Skeak) the H**L out of everything.

I have 2 thoughts: is you want a class feature called "Defensive Throwing" (which is only available to halflings via racial paragon in Unearthed Arcana or Wisper Dagger in Races of the Wild). That would go well with underfoot combat.

Secondly, there is a feat that gives you +5 to speed but I can't remember the name right now. Also, one of the lvl 1 tiger claw maneuver (though swordsage or warblade) lets you make 2 attacks as a standard action. Also Psychic Warrior has Hussle at lvl 2 which gives you an extra move action for free.

[kpenguin]

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