Please Abuse This: Runecaster

[Kansaschaser]

I was reading over the Runecaster in the Players Guide to Faerun, and my mind started to tingle with the possibilities of the Inscribe Rune and Improved Runecasting abilities. I've kind of overloaded my brain with the possibilities, so I'm asking you guys/gals what you would do with this ability.

Rune Craft
One Charge Rune = Spell level X caster level X 50gp
Multiple Charge Rune = Spell level X caster level X charges X 50gp
Charges Per Day = Spell level X caster level X charges X 400gp
Permanent = Spell level X caster level X 2000gp

Modifiers
Works when touched = Base cost
Works when read of passed (within 30ft) = Base cost X2

Any item of medium size or smaller can have one rune. That means objects of tiny and diminutive can still have one rune. An object can have one rune per 25 square feet of surface area. So if you had a book that was 1 foot square that had 100 pages, you could inscribe 8 runes into this book.

[Saintheart]

A grey ioun stone for the piddling cost of 25 gp springs to mind as a useful receptacle for a single rune. And I seem to remember you can fit about 6 of them whirling around your head at any given time. Its traditional use has been the hands-free light source when you cast Continual Flame on it, but this sounds interesting.

[InaVegt]

A grey ioun stone for the piddling cost of 25 gp springs to mind as a useful receptacle for a single rune. And I seem to remember you can fit about 6 of them whirling around your head at any given time. Its traditional use has been the hands-free light source when you cast Continual Flame on it, but this sounds interesting.

I'm pretty sure an ioun stone isn't big enough for these runes, sadly.

[Saintheart]

The wording of the feat is "A single object of Medium size or smaller can hold only one rune." If it's the feat only we're looking at, by RAW that sounds like an ioun stone can hold a rune. But I do need to look at the Rune Magic chapter of FRCS to see if there's anything there...

One alternative thought: weapon or shield crystals?

Another is that armour is comprised of many small plates, so you could argue that each plate as a "single object" and thereby have 20+ runes active on your fullplate at any given time?

[erikun]

Permanent 1st level Cure Light Wounds usage for 1x1x2000gp.
Works when touched for base cost.
A rock for +0gp.

So would this give you a stone that heals for 1d8+1 every time you touch it, every round you hold it? Sounds pretty helpful (although maybe not more than a Belt of Battle).

[Saintheart]

Permanent 1st level Cure Light Wounds usage for 1x1x2000gp.
Works when touched for base cost.
A rock for +0gp.

So would this give you a stone that heals for 1d8+1 every time you touch it, every round you hold it? Sounds pretty helpful (although maybe not more than a Belt of Battle).

How 'bout this for crazy stupid: you double the cost of the rock for it to work every time you "read or pass it".

An ioun stone is permanently passing around your head. Every time it passes it front of your eyes you can be regarded as "reading" it. 4000 gp for round-by-round or even second by second healing? It's the kind of thing to get DMGs thrown at you.

Alternatively, you could just get a piece of string and tie the rock to your arm, forehead, or any other bared part of your body. Thus you are always "touching" it.

[Vulaas]

Can you put metamagic'd spells into a rune? Because a persisted Wraithstrike 1/day rune made with the benefit of Divine Metamagic would be be wonderful as a worst case scenario would be CL3, SL8 (24x400=9600) for all your rogue or fighter's attacks to be touch attacks that day. And that's not even all the abuses that could be found, I'm sure.

[Veyr]

Can you put metamagic'd spells into a rune? Because a persisted Wraithstrike 1/day rune made with the benefit of Divine Metamagic would be be wonderful as a worst case scenario would be CL3, SL8 (24x400=9600) for all your rogue or fighter's attacks to be touch attacks that day. And that's not even all the abuses that could be found, I'm sure.
A spell cast from an 8th level spell slot has to be at least CL 15th, I'm fairly certain.

[Moose Man]

Greater celerity, permanent. http://media.moddb.com/images/downloads/1/22/21474/633659400938008540-bullettime.jpg

[Necroticplague]

A spell cast from an 8th level spell slot has to be at least CL 15th, I'm fairly certain.

Divine metamagic (to my knowledge) allows you to apply metamagic to a spell without increasing level by sacrificing turn attempts on a 1:1 ratio.

[Veyr]

Divine metamagic (to my knowledge) allows you to apply metamagic to a spell without increasing level by sacrificing turn attempts on a 1:1 ratio.
Yes, but Vulaas specified this as an 8th level spell.

Also, Divine Metamagic allows you to prepare and cast the spell as a lower-level spell, but I'd argue that you cannot reduce the item's cost that way: you have not modified the spell itself (as with a Metamagic feat), you've only modified your ability to cast it. Sure, you'd only be out an 3rd level slot instead of an 8th level slot when you cast it during the item's creation, but the spell in the item would still be 8th level and a minimum CL of 15.

[Kansaschaser]

How 'bout this for crazy stupid: you double the cost of the rock for it to work every time you "read or pass it".

An ioun stone is permanently passing around your head. Every time it passes it front of your eyes you can be regarded as "reading" it. 4000 gp for round-by-round or even second by second healing? It's the kind of thing to get DMGs thrown at you.

Alternatively, you could just get a piece of string and tie the rock to your arm, forehead, or any other bared part of your body. Thus you are always "touching" it.

Ok, that's a pretty good one. I just started laughing thinking of all the spells you could put on an ion stone. I think I would like to add a Permanent Magic Missile to 6 Ion Stones floating around my head and set them to go off any time a person of Evil alignment passes within 30 feet. Level 1 Caster X Level 1 Spell X 2,000 gold = 2,000 gold. If you wanted 5 missiles, then it would cost 18,000 gold. Put that on 6 different Ion Stones and you got yourself 30 Missiles every round for free that can do 150 damage.

I should have also mentioned that as a class feature, you get to add Maximize Spell for free to any run created.

[Ernir]

A spell cast from an 8th level spell slot has to be at least CL 15th, I'm fairly certain.

A lot of specific rules seem to reference a rule like this (these rune mechanics, and Echoing Spell come to mind), but I have never seen anything of the sort.

If you can find it, I'd love to see it.

[erikun]

You know, for 4000gp (permanent, touch-activated) there are a lot of really good things available.

Protection from Evil, for everyone, by touching an object
Shield, for everyone, by touching an object
Mage Armor, for everyone, by touching an object
Grease, on an armor, activating every time your opponent hits you (Greasing their weapon)
Mount, for everyone, by touching an object
Unseen Servant, for however long you want it
True Strike, on an Ioun Stone, for +20 to hit each turn
Shocking Grasp, on a weapon, for a free shocking property
Color Spray, on a weapon, for stunning every round
Chill Touch, on a weapon, for 1 Str damage every swing
Doom, on a weapon, for -2 attack rolls/saves when hitting an enemy
Shield of Faith, +2 AC for anyone interested
Entropic Shield, 20% miss chance against ranged attacks
Entangle, on a weapon, assuming you can get out of it
Faerie Fire, on a weapon, to cancel out most miss chances
Obscuring Mist, on a ranged weapon, just to blind people

Or am I grossly misunderstanding the Runecasting?

[Saintheart]

You know, for 4000gp (permanent, touch-activated) there are a lot of really good things available.
Entangle, on a weapon, assuming you can get out of it


Put a Freedom of Movement rune on your armor, or better yet, your weapon crystal! :smallbiggrin:

[Kansaschaser]

1. Put 8 runes into a 100 page book.
2. Make the outer cover be the Scholar's Touch spell and have it activate by touch.
3. Make all the runes inside the book activate by reading.
4. When someone touches the book, they activate the Scholar's Touch spell, then since they are touching the book, they also just activated the other 7 spells inside the book.

You could be a really good healer by just walking around and having people touch your book.

Scholar's Touch: Caster Level 1 X Spell Level 1 X 2,000gp = 2,000gp
Cure Light Wounds(6): Caster Level 1 X Spell Level 1 X 2,000gp X 2 = 4,000gp
Sanctuary: Caster Level 1 X Spell Level 1 X 2,000gp X 2 = 4,000gp

So for 30,000 gold, you get a book that can heal people (6D8+6 healing) and put Sanctuary on them by just touching the book.

[Saintheart]

Doublechecked the FRCS to be sure. There's nothing on the size of runes in chapter 2 of the Campaign Setting, and MoF just refers the reader back to that chapter. If anything the text supports miniscule runes, since you need a skill involving writing things (which includes gemcutting) on top of the Inscribe Rune feat.

Ergo, by RAW, you can put runes on ioun stones. "Only 1 rune per object of Medium size or smaller" + "Only 1 rune per 25 square feet" =/= "Runes can only be put on objects of Medium size." The upper limits are defined, but not the lower.

[Kansaschaser]

Oooo, you could go for flavor with this stuff too.

1. Put Magic Missile on a weapon or weapon crystal. Caster Level 9 X Spell Level 1 X 2,000 gp = 18,000 gold.
2. Set it to activate each time it strikes an Evil(or any other alignment) creature.
3. Say that you have a "Gun-Blade" and when you swing your weapon to strike an evil creature, it auto hits with Magic Missile.

[Veyr]

Can we get that to work only if you're at full HP?

[Qwertystop]

Can it actually be set by alignment? Also, if it can, would it trigger on stuff with an alignment descriptor, such as a Good lich (still detects as Evil for being undead)? If the first is No, or the second is Yes, many of these fail. A weapon that casts Magic Missile when touched sounds good until you realize you have to touch it to use it. Same goes for if you, a wizard, have your skeleton servant bring your sword to the armorer for repair. A pile of bone dust is found partway down the road the next day.

[Kansaschaser]

Can it actually be set by alignment? Also, if it can, would it trigger on stuff with an alignment descriptor, such as a Good lich (still detects as Evil for being undead)? If the first is No, or the second is Yes, many of these fail. A weapon that casts Magic Missile when touched sounds good until you realize you have to touch it to use it. Same goes for if you, a wizard, have your skeleton servant bring your sword to the armorer for repair. A pile of bone dust is found partway down the road the next day.

Yes, it says in the description that you can have runes that activate by appearance (such as height and/or weight), by race (elves, orcs, undead, oozes, etc...), or even alignment (lawful, evil, good, chaos).

So if you set a rune to activate if within 30 feet of an evil character, then as soon as someone evil gets within 30 feet, the rune activates. It will even activate if the evil person is invisible, but not ethereal.

[Qwertystop]

Yes, it says in the description that you can have runes that activate by appearance (such as height and/or weight), by race (elves, orcs, undead, oozes, etc...), or even alignment (lawful, evil, good, chaos).

So if you set a rune to activate if within 30 feet of an evil character, then as soon as someone evil gets within 30 feet, the rune activates. It will even activate if the evil person is invisible, but not ethereal.

And does it actually say that it will target the triggerer? If not, you have as much chance of being hurt by the Magic Missile as huring the enemy, assuming 1v1. Will it reactivate every round, or will the guy have to leave and come back?

[Kansaschaser]

And does it actually say that it will target the triggerer? If not, you have as much chance of being hurt by the Magic Missile as huring the enemy, assuming 1v1. Will it reactivate every round, or will the guy have to leave and come back?

I'm assuming that if the spell is only triggered by a certain alignment, it will only hit thoes people of that alignment.

As for it activating every round, I'm not sure. For traps they normally reset in a few rounds to be used again. For the Runecaster, it just says "Permanent", which sounds like it would continue to activate as long as the trigger is met.

So if you put Magic Missile on an Ion Stone to activate when within 30 feet of an Undead, then as soon as you get within 30 feet of an Undead, it would fire the Magic Missile. If the Undead was still within 30 feet the next round, I assume it would continue to fire until there was no Undead left.

The question is, does it trigger once for each Undead within 30 feet? Are objects limited by the number of actions per round that a person is? What if there are 10 undead within 30 feet? Do each of them trigger the Magic Missile each round? Or does it only target one random Undead with Magic Missile?

[Bakkan]

Can we get that to work only if you're at full HP?

Veyr, that was awesome.

[Veyr]

Veyr, that was awesome.
I was getting so worried that that would be glossed over in the midst of the rules argument, heh, so thank you, Bakkan.

[Kansaschaser]

I was getting so worried that that would be glossed over in the midst of the rules argument, heh, so thank you, Bakkan.

Hehe, unfortunatly it does not state that you can have a rune trigger based on Hit Points, Hit Dice, or Class.

[Luckmann]

Hehe, unfortunatly it does not state that you can have a rune trigger based on Hit Points, Hit Dice, or Class.I don't think a DM would have a problem with it, though.

Any particular reason there would be one? Am I missing something funny here? :smallannoyed:

[Veyr]

In the older Legend of Zelda games, the Master Sword would shoot a laser if Link swung it while at full health.

[Luckmann]

What about inscribing permanent on-touch runes on persons?

What if I inscribe Dominate Person on a grappled enemy? How about.. the president? :smalltongue:

In the older Legend of Zelda games, the Master Sword would shoot a laser if Link swung it while at full health.Dohoho. Of course. :smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Rune of True Strike, activated whenever you see it, on your weapon. Glance at your weapon between swings. Works even better with a bow. 4k for a flat +20 to attack rolls and ignoring all forms of concealment. Have a nice day.

[Luckmann]

Permanent Haste on a ring, activate on touch.

I thought about a bunch of other possibilities, but yeah, this ability doesn't really need any help.

Permanent Divine Power on a breast plate, on touch.

[Kansaschaser]

The only problem with this ability is that it creates a permanent spell. So it can be dispelled.

Is there a way to prevent your awesome runes from dispelling? Maybe Craft Contingent Spell? If your rune gets targeted by a Dispel Magic, the Contingent Spell activates with a Dispel Magic to counter? Would that work?

[Rizhail]

Two very important things to know about the runecaster:

1) The class is a DIVINE casting class, and the runes use divine spells.
2) You can't put a rune on a weapon with the intention of it activating when you strike (I'll hunt down the page reference when I get home from class). Doesn't necessarily prevent some of the other fun shenanigans ya'll have listed :smalltongue: , but I felt it needed to be pointed out.

Point 1 means that, unless you use tricks with the Archivist to get certain arcane spells as divine, you won't be able to pick up magic missile/shocking grasp/etc. But you can still have fun with cures, flame strikes, and all that. :smallbiggrin:

I personally like the idea of tossing a permanent (or charge/day) Righteous Might or similar cleric specific buff spells (I think runes can be made with 'target: you, range: personal' type spells) on the chest plate of the party fighter or paladin. Heck, with the Archivist you could potentially inscribe a permanent rune of Holy Weapon on the palm of your fighter's gauntlet or a rune of greater magic weapon on the archer's glove. Every arrow you draw is +5, forever? Yes please!

EDIT: As mentioned in this thread on brilliant gameologists (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12011.0), placing a rune on the arrow rest of a bow or crossbow can allow for hilarity; the examples from the link includes using Arrowsplit (from Champions of ruin) to make a bow that always fires FIVE arrows, or Shadow Arrow (same book) to make all your arrows touch attacks that do half a dozen points of Str damage.

And the most abusable note: By increasing your Craft DC by 5 (I think) when making the rune, you can maximize the rune at no spell level increase!

DOUBLE EDIT: Only putting this in because I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but although Runes are made via a magic item creation feat and follow magic item creation rules (they DO cost XP, though you could potentially use the Artisan feats to make them cheaper), a rune only requires 10 minutes plus the casting time of the spell to create.

You know you'll be fighting demons soon, and your fighter has only a mundane sword? Single use Holy Weapon rune!

Suspect a doppelganger of impersonating an important NPC? Invite him over for dinner, and set a rune of whatever trap you prefer keyed to hitting Humanoid (shapechanger) creatures in only a few minutes.

Local village suffering from the plague? Slap a permanent rune of remove disease on whatever object is laying close at hand and the problem is solved as quickly as every infected person can touch it.

The class is openly and easily abusable to the point of your DM banning your character from the game. :smallbiggrin:

[Kansaschaser]

Two very important things to know about the runecaster:

1) The class is a DIVINE casting class, and the runes use divine spells.
2) You can't put a rune on a weapon with the intention of it activating when you strike (I'll hunt down the page reference when I get home from class). Doesn't necessarily prevent some of the other fun shenanigans ya'll have listed :smalltongue: , but I felt it needed to be pointed out.

Point 1 means that, unless you use tricks with the Archivist to get certain arcane spells as divine, you won't be able to pick up magic missile/shocking grasp/etc. But you can still have fun with cures, flame strikes, and all that. :smallbiggrin:

I personally like the idea of tossing a permanent (or charge/day) Righteous Might or similar cleric specific buff spells (I think runes can be made with 'target: you, range: personal' type spells) on the chest plate of the party fighter or paladin. Heck, with the Archivist you could potentially inscribe a permanent rune of Holy Weapon on the palm of your fighter's gauntlet or a rune of greater magic weapon on the archer's glove. Every arrow you draw is +5, forever? Yes please!

With the Archivist, you could get most of the arcane spells you need to be really cheesey.

I know some people have found a way to convert any Arcane spell into a Divine spell for the Archivist to use. I can't remember how they did it, but with that cheese, you could do most everything you needed.

[Luckmann]

Also, don't forget Domains. Domains such as Knowledge or Magic wouldn't just be pretty nice for the build, but is thematically appropriate, imo.

[Necroticplague]

With the Archivist, you could get most of the arcane spells you need to be really cheesey.

I know some people have found a way to convert any Arcane spell inot a Divine spell fo rthe Archivist to use. I can't remember how they did it, but with that cheese, you could do most everything you needed.

I think the trick was as follows (and could also work in reverse):
1: Archivist decides to create scroll of arcane spell, contributing his scribe scroll feat, and paying all of the costs.
2: Arcane spellcaster contributes spell he wants.
3:Since the creator (archivist) was a divine caster, the scroll is then divine. The archivist proceeds to copy it down into his book, thus gaining the arcane spell as a divine spell.
4: Repeat until you have all arcane and divine spells in your book.

[Kansaschaser]

1. Put Fireball(Caster Level 5) on a boomerang. Caster Level 5 X Spell Level 3 X 2,000 gp = 30,000 gold. Edit: X2 for having it activate if within 30 feet of target. So total is really 60,000 gold.
2. Make sure the boomerange is made with Riverine so it's immune to damage from the Fireball.
3. Have the Fireball trigger if it gets withing 30 feet of someone Evil.
4. Hurl the boomerang toward a group of evildooers.
5. The boomerang will hurl a Fireball (5D6 damage maxamized = 30 damage) at each target it passes.

BOOMERANG OF DEATH!!!

[Luckmann]

It's a pity a DM would have to nerf this into oblivion to be usable in a game without breaking it, because the concept itself is pretty cool.

[Kansaschaser]

It's a pity a DM would have to nerf this into oblivion to be usable in a game without breaking it, because the concept itself is pretty cool.

The downside is that if an opponent sees that you've got runes, then he could just do a target dispel magic and the rune would be gone for good (assuming he made his dispel check).

So it's cool to use, but easy to destroy. In fact, breaking the object the rune is put on can effectively destroy the rune. Or if you put a rune on your weapon, your opponent could sunder your weapon.

Yes, this ability has a huge potenial, but a smart DM would know how to keep it in check without nerfing the crud out of the Runecaster.

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For 7,448exp and 61,200 gold, you could make a rune that can cast Awaken Construct 1/day. Set it to activate when a construct touches the run.

Maybe that's how they make Warforged in some worlds.

[Moose Man]

I'm sure the "run" is perfectly fine with being controlled.
You misspelled rune.

[Kansaschaser]

I'm sure the "run" is perfectly fine with being controlled.
You misspelled rune.

Sorry about that. I keep typing rune and the program I'm using keeps auto-correcting it to run. It's fixed now.

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Wishing Rock Rune
Cost to Create: 306,000 gold
Caster Level: 17
Spell Level: 9th
XP Cost: 37,240 xp
Activation: Touch
Abilities: Wish (as the spell) 5 times per day

[faus7rav3n]

So, I'm actually building a Cleric/Runecaster for my current game and one of the caveats to Persist is that it can only affect spells with Personal Range and or Set Ranges. It is also said that you can add Metamagic effects to spells when you craft items. It doesn't say whether or not the Range requirements still apply on crafted items. It also doesn't say whether you can use DMM: Persist when crafting spells, but I would imagine how you make it work doesn't matter b/c you are still using the magic given to you to create an item.

Some Runes I was considering:

Persistent Buff Runes:
Truestrike
Bear's, Boar's, Eagle's
Mass Vigor line
Miracle granting Owl's Insight, persist this spell.
Divine Power

Utilities:
Permanent Multicharged Rune of Hold Person, anyone staring at it will discharge the Rune thus being held.
Explosive Rune Grenades

Items...
Collaborate with a Wizard that has Item Creation...have him make you a bag that focuses an AMF inward. Store your runes inside of it to prevent baddie dispellage, pull them out and activate. That way only the Runes on the outside/visible are susceptible.

[SmokeShadow]

You could be a really good healer by just walking around and having people touch your book.
So for 30,000 gold, you get a book that can heal people (6D8+6 healing) and put Sanctuary on them by just touching the book.

Good for flavor also, give it to the evangelist cleric and have them ask something along the lines of "Do YOU accept the light of Pelor into your life?"

[Wings of Peace]

I'm afb right now but if persisting spells via Runecaster is the same as persisting them regularly it's worth noting that True Strike is a poor choice because it ends after you make the attack so unless you just want your first orb spell to be a guaranteed hit there's better spells to play with.

[Icewraith]

Even if you can't get the activation right on your ioun stone due to DM disagreeing at what rate they orbit, you could still get your spell off 6x a round by specifying an evil opponent, and then using a standard move to cross the 30-35" barrier six times. More if you have faster movement or are willing to blow more than your move action.

Edit: You just need to come up with an activation condition that you can refresh before each attack instead of trying to persist True Strike.

[Phelix-Mu]

Awesome thread, even with the thread necromancy thing going. What is the limit for commenting to old threads, anyway?

I totally lol'd at some of the suggestions from that brilliantgameologists link.