Help me build a Sonokineticist.

[Otherworld Odd]

So in the spirit of the Mortal Kombat ninjas (Scorpion-fire, Sub-zero-ice, Reptile-acid, etc) I've decided that I wanted to build a Sonokineticist (the variant Pyrokineticist prestige class) flavored as a MK-type ninja. So basically I'm trying to decide how to get into the prestige class most effectively among feats choices, etc. Any ideas?

[Lateral]

Generally, the best entry is as a psionic race with a nonpsionic class. Either that or Soulknife, but Soulknife sucks.

[Otherworld Odd]

Generally, the best entry is as a psionic race with a nonpsionic class. Either that or Soulknife, but Soulknife sucks.

Oh, hrm... I didn't even think about just doing it with a psionic race. I won't do Soulknife though, because yes, soullknife sucks. >.>. What class would be good?

[Zaq]

Your entry class depends on what you want to actually do once you hit Sonokineticist. Their abilities are nifty, but they don't really lend themselves to a single strategy to such a degree that you can forget your roots, so to speak.

[Otherworld Odd]

Ah, gotchya. Well I'm not too familiar with the class as I've never used it (pyro or otherwise) and never actually seen it in play. I skimmed over the character and just loved it's flavor, plus i'm a huge psionic fan anyways. Any suggestions? Is it better in melee with the abilites or just stand back shooting people with the 2d6 blasts and control using spells? Other?


Edit: I guess it might be worth it to note that is for an Xcrawl game.

[Lateral]

Well, it doesn't progress psionics at all, so it's not really good for entering with a psionic power progression; that's why you enter with a nonpsionic class. Monk/Factotum can be a good entry into it; the lash is fun for tripping builds even though you don't threaten, and you have sonic fists.

[Otherworld Odd]

Well, it doesn't progress psionics at all, so it's not really good for entering with a psionic power progression; that's why you enter with a nonpsionic class. Monk/Factotum can be a good entry into it; the lash is fun for tripping builds even though you don't threaten, and you have sonic fists.

Ooo... I was honestly planning on playing a Factotum before I found this class and thought I had to decide between the two...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your energy lash can be used with any feat that could be applied to a standard whip, including Power Attack. As far as I know nothing prevents you from using it two-handed, either. Get Point-Blank Shot (+1 attack and damage all the time!), Precise Shot, Power Attack, and start with some full BAB class such as Warblade. Get one to four levels in Sonokineticist and then continue taking full BAB class(es). Note that any bonus damage you get such as via Power Attack or Sneak Attack is the same type of damage as the weapon's base damage, so in this case those would add additional sonic damage. Sneak Attack would suffer the -1 damage per die penalty, and would be extremely difficult to enable with no possibility of flanking, but Power Attack is where it's at.

[Otherworld Odd]

Your energy lash can be used with any feat that could be applied to a standard whip, including Power Attack. As far as I know nothing prevents you from using it two-handed, either. Get Point-Blank Shot (+1 attack and damage all the time!), Precise Shot, Power Attack, and start with some full BAB class such as Warblade. Get one to four levels in Sonokineticist and then continue taking full BAB class(es). Note that any bonus damage you get such as via Power Attack or Sneak Attack is the same type of damage as the weapon's base damage, so in this case those would add additional sonic damage. Sneak Attack would suffer the -1 damage per die penalty, and would be extremely difficult to enable with no possibility of flanking, but Power Attack is where it's at.

You can use point blank shot and precise shot with a whip? O.o

[Kylarra]

Technically no, but the energy whip created by the -kineticist isn't strictly a whip, it's a ranged touch attack that can apply whip-based feats to itself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can use point blank shot and precise shot with a whip? O.o

The energy lash makes a ranged touch attack, so you can use any feats that could apply to a ranged attack with it. You actually need Precise Shot to not suffer a -4 for attacking someone who's already in melee, Point Blank Shot always applying since you'll always be within 30 ft. is a nice benefit.

[Otherworld Odd]

Oh, whoa. I didn't even realize it was a ranged touch attack. I just thought it was altogether like a whip but with energy damage.


ToB is a banned source for this game however. What's another option instead of warblade? Just straight fighter?

[Grendus]

Fighter might be good anyways, you'll want a good number of feats.

[Psyren]

Knight can work well. For one, you can use a shield and heavy armor just fine with the whip, and for two you have Cha synergy thanks to abilities like Nimbus and Heat Sound Death.

[Greenish]

"Sub-zero ice" is probably one of the most comical attempts of making up a term that sounds really lethal/dangerous/cool.

"Super-zero ice", now, that'd sound pretty lethal, due to high pressures involved.

[Otherworld Odd]

Also, besides a general build idea which I already think I have from all the info here (thanks!) I also need a good name for my character. Being x-crawl, a stage name is suitable.

I'm trying to avoid Sonic due to a particular hedgehog but it is a really good name for a sound-based character.

I also thought of Treble, Scream, and Echo but other than that...errr, braindead. Any thoughts?

[Divide by Zero]

"Sub-zero ice" is probably one of the most comical attempts of making up a term that sounds really lethal/dangerous/cool.

"Super-zero ice", now, that'd sound pretty lethal, due to high pressures involved.

I read that as more along the lines of "ice in the style of the character Sub-Zero."

[Otherworld Odd]

"Sub-zero ice" is probably one of the most comical attempts of making up a term that sounds really lethal/dangerous/cool.

"Super-zero ice", now, that'd sound pretty lethal, due to high pressures involved.

Oh, I was just linking the character Sub zero to the element ice. I realize now that the way that is formatted makes it look really funny. o.o... *fix*

[Greenish]

I read that as more along the lines of "ice in the style of the character Sub-Zero."

Oh, I was just linking the character Sub zero to the element ice.Well, that makes more sense.

[Psyren]

Also, besides a general build idea which I already think I have from all the info here (thanks!) I also need a good name for my character. Being x-crawl, a stage name is suitable.

I'm trying to avoid Sonic due to a particular hedgehog but it is a really good name for a sound-based character.

I also thought of Treble, Scream, and Echo but other than that...errr, braindead. Any thoughts?

What race are you? Don't forget it has to be psionic (or take Hidden Talent at least.)

For a "superhero"-ish name based on sound, I'd go with Resonance, Vibro, Pitch, Amp...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You could also go the other way and call him something like 'Silence'.

There's several ways to go about doing this. The most obvious, since your inspiration is already Mortal Kombat, is to start off as Monk, for as many attacks as possible to add your sonic damage to. Preferably with some method of getting Pounce.

If MoI is on the table, you can't go wrong with Totemist for Sphinx Claws and Gorrilian Arms.

[Psyren]

You could also go the other way and call him something like 'Silence'.

Hush? Whisper? Interesting.



There's several ways to go about doing this. The most obvious, since your inspiration is already Mortal Kombat, is to start off as Monk, for as many attacks as possible to add your sonic damage to. Preferably with some method of getting Pounce.

If MoI is on the table, you can't go wrong with Totemist for Sphinx Claws and Gorrilian Arms.

I don't think you can flurry with the whip though. It's not a monk weapon and even if it was, it's a ranged attack anyway. I'm not sure Totemist would get you extra hits with it either.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hush? Whisper? Interesting.



I don't think you can flurry with the whip though. It's not a monk weapon and even if it was, it's a ranged attack anyway. I'm not sure Totemist would get you extra hits with it either.

Not the whip, the Sonic Fists ability. +2d6 Sonic damage per attack. More hits = more applications of 2d6 Sonic damage.

The whip is just a way to trip someone at range

[Godskook]

Unarmed swordsage seems perfect for this, combined with the "throw your fists" trick. Specifically, buy a necklace of natural attacks form Savage Species. Make the enhancement +1 throwing(+2 equivalent). Then buy greater crystals of returning(4kgp) and get a permanent Greater magic fang(8050gp + 360...600gp) on yourself(last one needed to use the crystals). You now have throwing fists that'll return to you automatically. Combine with the sonic damage you're already doing and a DM who's willing to allow a certain amount of attack fluffing, and you're set.

[Ernir]

I'm AFB, but doesn't the SpC have a spell called Creaking Cacophony that you need to get?

[mootoall]

I kinda want to recommend Bard entry ...

[Psyren]

Not the whip, the Sonic Fists ability. +2d6 Sonic damage per attack. More hits = more applications of 2d6 Sonic damage.

The whip is just a way to trip someone at range

Ahh, I see - reading fail on my part.

Actually, Battle Dancer would be perfect for this. You get strong Cha synergy again, full BAB (so no need to flurry - with the right build you can nab 16 too), and you can even fluff the sonic attacks as ground-stomping vibrations a la Hung Gar/Earthbending dance-battle style.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh jeez, could you use Lyric Thaumaturge's sonic-amping ability to ramp up the damage on your sonic whip, or is that spells only and I'm barking up a nonexistent tree?

[Cog]

Sonic Might is spells-only.

[Fax Celestis]

It's a shaky interpretation, but it might fly.

Well, check with your DM? It could be a great way to build a BUKKIT O DICE kind of character.

[The Shadowmind]

Bardfire inspiration bard, could also get you several more dice of Sonic, but it is kind of feat intensive.

[Otherworld Odd]

Wow, lots of suggestions since last night. O.O... well, i did wake up at 3 so I guess that could be a reason. -.-. Anyways this is awesome. Tons of suggestions. I particularly like the monk/unarmed swordsage suggestions.

I think I'm going to do Maenad. They get 2 pp and don't seem like too bad of a race. They have that scream thing too which synergizes pretty well fluff wise.

[Zonugal]

Another option, because the sonic whip still allows you to use power attack, is to dip some levels into a dungeon-crasher fighter and fling people ten-fifteen feet away from you with each strike.

[Psyren]

I think I'm going to do Maenad. They get 2 pp and don't seem like too bad of a race. They have that scream thing too which synergizes pretty well fluff wise.

If you could do Pathfinder Maenad they'd be perfect. They get +1 DC to anything Sonic.

[Otherworld Odd]

If you could do Pathfinder Maenad they'd be perfect. They get +1 DC to anything Sonic.

Oh, nice. I haven't looked over the pathfinder psionic races but that's really cool. That PA whip thing sounds awesome. How does dungeon crasher work? I know if you fling them into a wall it's massive damage but other than that, not sure. It's a bull rush right?


edit: I'm really digging the punches and the whip. This Dungeon crasher thing sounds really cool especially. Is there a build I could do that could effectively put fists and sonic lash together and make it effective? I think if we could find out a good way to do that, I could get a really good MK-themed character going.

P.S: The game is quite un-optimized so we don't have to worry about making it absolute pwn-sauce.

[Zonugal]

That PA whip thing sounds awesome. How does dungeon crasher work? I know if you fling them into a wall it's massive damage but other than that, not sure. It's a bull rush right?

Well you're going to need Goliath as a race to really make it work but here is the run-down (anyone correct me if I'm wrong).

So you get to use power attack with your sonic whip, just as if it was any ordinary whip. So you pick up power attack and improved bull rush as feats. Now the real combo begins once you get Knock-Back from Races of Stone which states every time you land an attack fueled by power attack you also initiate a free bull rush against them (without having to follow them as you push them away). This, in conjunction with Dungeon Crasher (from Dungeonscape) means that you'll be dealing +4d6 & x2 your strength score on top of the sonic whip's basic damage.

So in the end your attack & damage routine should look something like this (using an example model of a Goliath Psychic Warrior 3/Fighter 2/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Sonickineticist 1 with a Strength score of 20 & Dex of 14).

Attack: +4 BaB +2 Dexterity -1 Power Attack = +5 to land the strike. Should you hit (and it's a touch attack so you have a pretty good shot), you'll now roll for the bull-rush which is: +4 BaB +5 Strength -1 Power Attack +4 Powerful Build +4 Step of the Wind stance = +16 to initiate the bull-rush.

Now for the bull-rush to push them back at all you'll have to roll opposing strength checks which you'll have of: +5 Strength +4 Improved Bull-rush +4 Powerful Build) +18 which means you have a solid chance of pushing them back ten to fifteen feet without having to follow them.

Damage: 1d6 (average of 4) sonic whip +1 power attack = 5 damage which seems pretty lame but let us consider if you have whipped an opponent back ten to fifteen feet and they should hit any obstacle (wall, door, ect...) they'll now have to deal with +4d6 (average of 16) +10 = 31 damage per strike.

And that is without figuring in expansion (which you'll more than likely use).

[Otherworld Odd]

Aw, Goliath isn't an option sadly. =[.

[Zonugal]

Any large race will work for it (or you could see if the DM will allow a human with the Jotubrud regional feat to qualify as powerful build).

[Fax Celestis]

Or Half-Giant from XPH could work in a pinch.

[Ernir]

Or Half-Giant from XPH could work in a pinch.

In a pinch? Works better, I'd say. Takes care of the power point, too.

Biggest problem is how people tend to stereotypical-ize anything that has "giant" in its name, IMO. :smallsigh:

[Otherworld Odd]

Alright, so I'm going to need to decide and make this guy up by Sunday. Let's assume for now that I won't be able to access any large races for the dungeon crasher variant so I'll be going with Maenad.

Here's what I've got to work with:

Stats: 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 14 (I rolled crazy ridiculous stats, I know)

Starting at level 3.

I'm interested in a fist-fighter, perhaps with the whip lash thing as well but I clearly won't be high enough level to take advantage of that yet. So I need some roots that will be sturdy enough and also get me to -kineticist.

Options? Monk, fighter, factotum I guess. No ToB so sadly so unarmed swordsage =[. What would be my best bet right now?

[Psyren]

Oh, nice. I haven't looked over the pathfinder psionic races but that's really cool. That PA whip thing sounds awesome.

PF Maenad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/maenad)

Note: The PF races are much stronger (in general) than their 3.5 versions.



Options? Monk, fighter, factotum I guess. No ToB so sadly so unarmed swordsage =[. What would be my best bet right now?

Do you have Dragon Compendium? Battle Dancer gets you the Monk's unarmed bonus, full BAB, and a Cha basis instead of Wis to power both your AC and your SK moves.

[Otherworld Odd]

PF Maenad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/maenad)

Note: The PF races are much stronger (in general) than their 3.5 versions.



Do you have Dragon Compendium? Battle Dancer gets you the Monk's unarmed bonus, full BAB, and a Cha basis instead of Wis to power both your AC and your SK moves.

Oooh, that would be perfect... I'll definitely look into this class, its perfect for -kineticist.