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Thormag
2011-06-10, 09:30 AM
Hello Playgrounders, I'm making a Pokémon RPG game, inspired by the games and the anime (and the manga, though I haven't actually read it, I have read about it) and I need help creating a system for it.

The thing is, I have cracked my head thinking about a balanced system for it. I tried adopting the White Wolf d10 system, but although it is great for skills and stuff (for the trainers), I haven't found it useful for combat (too many dices).

The combat for Pokémon is, if you know anything about the games, tricky. There are many status changes and attributes changes that are difficult to translate into a RPG system without making it math intensive or extremely complicated. I want to keep it simple, but with the complexity of the original battle system (a true oxymoron).

The hard parts:

- Adopting the ups and downs in stats in battle (including stages, such as +2 attack from a Swords Dance)
- Making stats matter
- Differentiating HP from Defense (and Special Defense)
- The speed factor
- Levels
- Movers power
- Other stuff that can come out in the process of making it.


Thing I have resolved:

- Accuracy
- Move choice
- Skills
- Attributes
- Abilities
- Other stuff that I can't remember

I am stumped so far and I need help desperately.

dsmiles
2011-06-10, 09:54 AM
Defense/Special Defense Ideas:

Well, if you have an 'attack' type stat. Defense and Special Defense can be target numbers, like Armor Class. Each attack does a specified amount of damage (if does damage), or applies a status effect, or whatever the attack does.
Alternatively, make Defense and Special Defense a 'soak' system. The damage roll has to exceed that number, and then inflicts any damage that goes over that, like the ARMOR stat in Warmachine/Hordes.

Speed Ideas:

Make Speed a number that directly affects who attacks first, like an Initiative stat, but have a roll each round, since no one pokemon always goes first.

Ups and Downs in Battle Ideas:

Make stats directly affect combat effectiveness. For instance a +2 to Attack, gives a direct +2 to attack rolls.

Basically, I'm suggesting a Warmachine/Hordes attack-type system. Each unit/solo/model in WarmaHordes has a MELEE ATTACK (MAT) stat and a RANGED ATTACK (RAT) stat. You roll your 2d6 and add that number to the roll. If it meets or exceeds the DEFENSE (DEF) stat of the defender, you hit. Then you roll damage. If it exceeds the ARMOR stat of the defender, you inflict the excess amount in damage.

There's different ways to boost rolls and such, but the easiest way is through static bonuses. A pokemon example would be to give each attack type (fire, electric, grass, whatever) a static bonus to attack and/or damage rolls against the opposed types. Alternatively, you could give them variable bonuses, like an extra die to roll.

As far as levels go, give the pokemon variable rolls to stats and HP, since they never seem to get the same number added at each level-up, if you forget to save and have to start over. (Done that more than once. :smallredface:) Perhaps +1d4 to certain stats each level. Alternatively, give them a number of 'points' each level (either static or random die roll) to assign as the player sees fit.

Personally, I'm not fond of the Storyteller d10 system, I much prefer a "roll + bonuses vs. target number" system. It's easy to use for both skills and combat. I prefer the WarmaHordes "2d6 + stat + bonuses vs. static stat" system. It's simple, and easy to learn. No real learning curve.

Thormag
2011-06-10, 10:37 AM
My problem is the "Blissey and Shuckle factor"

Shuckle has a LOT of Defense and Special Defense, which means that if we take the armor approach, he won't get hit... ever. However he has a meager HP, which means he'll die if he does get hit. Blissey, on the other hand has a really low Defense, which means that virtually any physical attack would hit Blissey, but she would be really hard to kill, because of her immense HP.

Soaking I believe is the best approach.


Another problem, now that you reminded me, are the bonuses to the attack.

So we have a Charizard being hit by a Golem with Rock Slide after two Curses. A critical hit.

So we have several factors: A 4x weakness, a critical hit, an increased attack, attack vs defense, same-type attack bonus:

((((Attack(x2)-Defense)x1.5)x4)x2. Isn't that a little math intensive? How can I simplify this?

dsmiles
2011-06-10, 10:41 AM
Another problem, now that you reminded me, are the bonuses to the attack.

So we have a Charizard being hit by a Golem with Rock Slide after two Curses. A critical hit.

So we have several factors: A 4x weakness, a critical hit, an increased attack, attack vs defense, same-type attack bonus:

((((Attack(x2)-Defense)x1.5)x4)x2. Isn't that a little math intensive? How can I simplify this?

I have no idea what you just said, but let me ask some questions to clarify it for me.

How do critical hits work?
What is the modifier for Curse?
Where does the increased attack come from?
What is the modifier for vulnerability?


I don't think multipliers are the way to go. Static bonuses or extra dice are much easier to deal with.

Thormag
2011-06-10, 11:09 AM
I have no idea what you just said, but let me ask some questions to clarify it for me.

How do critical hits work?
What is the modifier for Curse?
Where does the increased attack come from?
What is the modifier for vulnerability?


I don't think multipliers are the way to go. Static bonuses or extra dice are much easier to deal with.

- Criticals basically double the total damage inflicted by the attacking Pokémon.
- The modifier of Curse is +1 Attack (1.5 times the base attack), +1 Defense (same) and -1 Speed (0.6667 times the speed)
- The increased attack comes from Curse
- The modifier of vulnerability is double damage if you are weak, or quadruple damage if you are two times weak (Fire and Flying in this case are both weak to Rock)

Stats modifiers are:

+6= 4 times the damage
+5= 3.5 times the damage
+4= 3 times the damage
+3= 2.5 times the damage
+2= 2 times the damage
+1= 1.5 times the damage
0= base damage
-1= 2/3 times the damage
-2= 1/4 times the damage
-3= 2/5 times the damage
-4= 1/3 times the damage
-5= 2/7 times the damage
-6= 1/4 times the damage

As you can see, positive modifiers are easy to translate, but negatives are not.

And Pokemon is complicated.

dsmiles
2011-06-10, 11:20 AM
- Criticals basically double the total damage inflicted by the attacking Pokémon.
- The modifier of Curse is +1 Attack (1.5 times the base attack), +1 Defense (same) and -1 Speed (0.6667 times the speed)
- The increased attack comes from Curse
- The modifier of vulnerability is double damage if you are weak, or quadruple damage if you are two times weak (Fire and Flying in this case are both weak to Rock)

Stats modifiers are:

+6= 4 times the damage
+5= 3.5 times the damage
+4= 3 times the damage
+3= 2.5 times the damage
+2= 2 times the damage
+1= 1.5 times the damage
0= base damage
-1= 2/3 times the damage
-2= 1/4 times the damage
-3= 2/5 times the damage
-4= 1/3 times the damage
-5= 2/7 times the damage
-6= 1/4 times the damage

As you can see, positive modifiers are easy to translate, but negatives are not.

And Pokemon is complicated.

Why not try static modifiers instead of multipliers?

They're easier to deal with, and could simplify your system so that even a totally new player could pick it up.
After all, it's not the mechanics that make the game, it's the flavor.

Thormag
2011-06-10, 11:45 AM
Why not try static modifiers instead of multipliers?

They're easier to deal with, and could simplify your system so that even a totally new player could pick it up.
After all, it's not the mechanics that make the game, it's the flavor.


I might try that but how would they scale with level?

dsmiles
2011-06-10, 12:08 PM
Instead of having bonuses for stats, have the stat be the bonus.

(I'm going to continue advocating the WarmaHordes mechanic of (dice) + (stat) vs. (defender's stat). It's a very simple mechanic, and very easy to learn (IMO).)

For a vulnerability, (if you go with the 'soak' mechanic) you can double the damage above the DEF (or SP DEF) stat of the defender. (Example: DEF 10 with a vulnerability to fire, I roll a 12 for some fire damage. 12 - 10 = 2. Vulnerability to fire = 4 damage. Then for a double vulnerability, triple the damage. x2 vulnerability to fire = 6 damage. (There are certain abilities in WM/H that support doubling the damage that exceeds a model's ARMOR stat.)
For a debuff, you can apply a penalty directly to the defender's stat. Double debuff would apply half of the penalty (minimum of 1) on top of the original debuff. (Again, there are abilities in WM/H that support this type of stat reduction.)
For a buff, you can apply a bonus directly to the attacker's stat.
(To use this system, bonuses and penalties must necessarily be small. Not like DnD bonuses and penalties. For example: The bonus for sacrificing your movement in order to take aim in WM/H is +2. It's a pretty big deal.)
In order to scale with level, give...oh, I dunno...+1d(x) points at each pokemon level-up for the player to assign to his pokemon's stats. Then give...bonus points(?) when the trainer levels up, maybe? (That one could be a static number, and the trainer could apply it to any of his/her pokemon.)


Keep in mind, I'm just throwing ideas out there that sound like a simple system.

The-Mage-King
2011-06-11, 12:06 AM
Dorian, are you set on making the system? Or would you be willing to use a pre-made one? If the latter, here you go (http://s4.zetaboards.com/Pokemon_Tabletop/site/). Pokemon Tabletop Adventures, premade and prepackaged.