Knowledge skills

[Morquard]

Hi

One thing that I don't really like in the 3.5 system is the huge skill-list, especially all those knowledge skills.
Combine that with the fact that you usually don't get a high number of skillpoints unless you're a skillmonkey, that means that you probably have 1 knowledge skill you invest a few points in, but most probably find other things to keep their points.

So I was thinking about changing the knowledge skills a bit.

You can spend 1, 2 or 3 points into a skill.
At 3 points the skill is considered the maximum rank (level+3 for classkills, half that for CC).
At 2 points its considered 2/3 of that (rounded down)
And at 1 point it's 1/3 (also rounded down)

So a 6th level Sorcerer with 3 points in Knowledge Arcana counts as having 9 ranks, but his 2 points in Knowledge Nature are only a 3 (9*2/3 = 6; for CC: 6/2 = 3). +Int modifier of course still

I dunno, it was just an idea thats been going through my head for a while now, because I really think the knowledge skills are bit unattractive, but I do see that this might go too far and make them too good?


Another idea was to make Knowledge some sort of Meta-skill. This is a tad more complicated though, so bear with me.

You put points into knowledge itself, not the specialised things.
Then you can assign those points to the different areas.
3 points mean "full score in the knowledge skill", 2 is 2/3, and 1 is 1/3.
If the particular sub-area is CC for you, each point costs 2, but you can still raise it to 3.

So a sorcerer with +4 Int (don't ask) has put 5 additional ranks into Knowledge.
He now has 9 points to distribute, he puts 3 in Arcana, which now counts as having 9 ranks (because he has 9 ranks total in Knowledge).
2 go into nature which since its CC cost him 4 of his 6 remaining points, but now nature counts as having 6 ranks.
Then he puts 1 point into two other areas so he has basic knowledge (3 ranks) there.

In this scenario he only gets additional knowledge for actually spending a skillpoint in Knowledge, and not just by leveling up, but all his knowledge-areas that he has invested points in get better.


As I said, I'm looking for opinions on what you guys think? Good idea, horrible idea, decent idea but needs working?

[PirateLizard]

Ranks in Knowledge/Perform, taking one point in any of these skills gives you one Knowledge/Perform as usual. However for every four ranks your character has, you gain a bonus additional Knowledge/Perform type.

Ranks raising Craft confers a new bonus Craft skill every six ranks.

Ranks raising Profession confers a new bonus Profession every ten ranks. Example: 4 Ranks in Knowledge would give 1 Knowledge as normal + 1 Bonus from Ranks or 10 Ranks in Profession would give 1 Normal + 1 Bonus

When you take a Knowledge/Profession/Craft or Perform skill, you must designate one of the skills as your main specialty. When this skill reaches the appropriate rank, you gain one bonus skill at full ranks.

That's how we play, and I like it.

[Morquard]

Ah, also interesting.
But not sure exactly how that works.

I declare Arcana my prime knowledge skill, and at 4 Arcana, I can choose "nature" that now counts as 4 as well? At 8, I now choose Dungeneering, and all 3 are at 8 now?

[Zeikstraal]

Making decisions. You can not be good at EVERYTHING. As a Wizard you easily have 6 skill points a level. Arcana, Nature, Planes and Religion are the primary one. Concentration and Spellcraft and you have the basics covered. If you want to have Tumble for the fluff, well just ask your GM for a bonus an tumble to fit your concept.

In your way the Barbarian easily can max knowledge Arcana. And I know that there are probibly players out there who would do that. I know I have one in my group.

But then again, in Pathfinder you can do it probably easier.

[Asheram]

Ranks in Knowledge/Perform, taking one point in any of these skills gives you one Knowledge/Perform as usual. However for every four ranks your character has, you gain a bonus additional Knowledge/Perform type.

Ranks raising Craft confers a new bonus Craft skill every six ranks.

Ranks raising Profession confers a new bonus Profession every ten ranks. Example: 4 Ranks in Knowledge would give 1 Knowledge as normal + 1 Bonus from Ranks or 10 Ranks in Profession would give 1 Normal + 1 Bonus

When you take a Knowledge/Profession/Craft or Perform skill, you must designate one of the skills as your main specialty. When this skill reaches the appropriate rank, you gain one bonus skill at full ranks.

That's how we play, and I like it.

Just see if I've got this correct.

You take, for example, four skills in knowledge Arcana. And due to the wide area of study, you get a +1 for all the other knowledge checks?

[HalfDragonCube]

A third-level 18 Int Wizard/Archivist (like mine) with max ranks in Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Dungeoneering) would have one helluva lot of free skills with that.

[Rejakor]

The skill system should give more skillpoints than it does. That said, I don't think the 'at 4 ranks you get another knowledge skill' method is very good, as it doesn't allow the ranger who knows EVERYTHING about nature and nothing about magic to exist, or the loremaster who knows a lot about a wide variety of topics.