Build Semichallenge: The Alfred Sorcerer

[Zaq]

So, at the heart of it, we all know that D&D revolves around combat. This is perfectly fine. I'm OK with this. Sometimes, though, it's fun to try to fight that, if only a little bit.

My challenge, such as it is, is to come up with a Sorcerer who knows no spells that do not have some kind of use in everyday life. Obviously, "everyday life" to a fellow in the D&D universe is rather different from "everyday life" to you and me, but you get what I'm saying. We can say that they're a minor court noble (not high enough up to be involved in the really high-drama political intrigue, say), or a skilled merchant without being a king of industry, or something like that. They might even just be a house mage at a manor . . . perhaps not personal mage to a prince, but someone that the very wealthy might hire to keep things running smoothly around their house. The details aren't important. What is important is that the character doesn't spend much of his or her time crawling around in dungeons, killing things and taking their stuff going on grand adventures for god and country.

The catch? The character must be able to go on adventures and engage in tomb raiding explore dungeons with the best of them. They need to be able to deal with intelligent beings who resent having their homes intruded into slavering monsters who want the party dead. They need to be someone who doesn't have to rely on "comic relief" as an excuse for why they've earned their share of the XP. But if they come home (for they do have a home) and discuss their spell repertoires with their superiors, they need to be able to answer the question "So, um, why do you know THAT spell?" with something other than "Well, it keeps me safe in the dungeon" or "It makes da bad guyz dead/incapacitated."

Remember, of course, that most people who aren't adventurers get really, really pissy when you try to do magical things to them without their knowledge and/or consent. So while I'd absolutely accept "Silent Image is useful for entertaining, illustrating a point, or providing an artist's model," I'd find "Charm Person is useful to get better deals from suppliers and smooth over negotiations" to be really, really sketchy (you can't cover everything up, after all, and would YOU deal with someone who was known to use mind control on folks? I wouldn't).

So, what can we come up with? Can we come up with a Sorcerer who CAN go dungeoneering, but who can also justify every one of their spells as having legitimate everyday (not to say mundane) uses?

The level's not important (this isn't meant to be a specific character in a specific game), but since this is meant to be a challenge, I think that mid-high levels is where it's at (say, 6-10) to be both challenging and interesting. If you can swing 20, I'll be impressed, but that's hardly what I'm expecting just out of the box.

I do have a few good ideas, but I'd be interested in seeing what you folks come up with first.

As for the rest of the build, let's keep it simple and assume that you're a straight-class Sorcerer with no particular feats of mention. If taking a certain feat or feats would make an enormous difference, go ahead and pitch it to me, but I'm trying to keep "well, this could be crafted into a useful item, even if it's not useful in itself" to a minimum.

[Rylis]

Heh, so would this be the "Alfred" Sorcerer to the "Batman" Wizard?
Actually a pretty cool thought experiment. Definitely see this as potential for a butler/majordomo type, supplemented with the appropriate scrolls.

Edit: Real quick thought, might follow this with a further build later, but Animate Rope, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, would be awesome for a craftsman type or just general usefulness (clean all of those hard-to-reach places, large-scale construction, working with fine details).

[Squiggles]

I'd look at spells like

Appraising Touch (SpC)
Spontaneous Search (SpC) for looking around for something you've misplaced
Amanuensis (SpC) so you can scribe easily
Low Light Vision (SpC) in case you're playing something without vision enhancements for working in dark basements/wine cellars
Mage Hand/Greater Mage Hand
Slide (SpC)
Portal Alarm (SpC) and the other alarm/explosive rune style spells
Force Ladder (SpC)
Arcane Lock
Alter Self strictly so you can improve your form for gaining things like burrow, flight, generally for travel related purposes or getting into tight places

This would just be the start considering I didn't make it past level 2 spells and I was only looking in the PHB and SPC

[erikun]

0th level spells:
Detect Magic, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Light, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation

1st level spells:
Grease, Silent Image, Unseen Servant, Enlarge Person, Feather Fall

2nd level spells:
Detect Thoughts, See Invisibility, Continual Flame, Invisibility, Spider Climb

3rd level spells:
Dispel Magic, Stinking Cloud/Tiny Hut, Major Image, Fly, Haste

I got kind of bored after that. It kind of depends on what we consider properly "justified" in the end. Does knowing Stinking Cloud to get the vermin and occasional nosy kid out of your storehouse count as properly justified? What about Otiluke's Resilient Sphere as a way to end fights without violence?

Obviously, some options won't be viable - it's kind of hard to justify Cloudkill, Bestow Curse, or Animate Dead. However, most of the good spells could be useful outside of combat (Enlarge Person to reach higher areas) or have uses that could be non-dangerous (Polymorph, Shadow Conjuration). I don't think that your "hometown" Sorcerer would look that different from a standard Sor/Wiz spell list, although it would probably be lacking the really good spells that allow the Sorcerer to stand out.

[Hiro Protagonest]

0th level spells:
Detect Magic, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Light, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation

1st level spells:
Grease, Silent Image, Unseen Servant, Enlarge Person, Feather Fall

2nd level spells:
Detect Thoughts, See Invisibility, Continual Flame, Invisibility, Spider Climb

3rd level spells:
Dispel Magic, Stinking Cloud/Tiny Hut, Major Image, Fly, Haste

I got kind of bored after that. It kind of depends on what we consider properly "justified" in the end. Does knowing Stinking Cloud to get the vermin and occasional nosy kid out of your storehouse count as properly justified? What about Otiluke's Resilient Sphere as a way to end fights without violence?

Obviously, some options won't be viable - it's kind of hard to justify Cloudkill, Bestow Curse, or Animate Dead. However, most of the good spells could be useful outside of combat (Enlarge Person to reach higher areas) or have uses that could be non-dangerous (Polymorph, Shadow Conjuration). I don't think that your "hometown" Sorcerer would look that different from a standard Sor/Wiz spell list, although it would probably be lacking the really good spells that allow the Sorcerer to stand out.

Expanding on this.

0 level:
Resistance

1st level:
Reduce person

2nd level:
Bull's strength

3rd level:
Heroism

4th level:
Minor creation
Scrying
Locate creature
Mass enlarge person
Mass reduce person
Stone shape
Overland flight

5th level:
Break enchantment
Sending
Dream
Fabricate
Permanency (if the DM allows Guards and Wards to be affected by it)
Teleport

6th level:
Guards and wards
Greater dispel magic
Legend lore
Greater heroism

7th level:
Drawmni's instant summons
Mordenkain's magnificent mansion
Greater teleport
Greater scrying
Control weather

8th level:
Mind blank
Antipathy
Screen

9th level:
Foresight
Shapechange

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... starting with the SRD....

Sorc-20:
0th: 9 spells:
Detect Poison (make sure the food hasn't been messed with)
Detect Magic (likewise)
Read Magic (for assorted utility scrolls)
Dancing Lights (for when you need to light something up but you're not supposed to see it..)
Light (obvious)
Message (quietly let your lord know stuff)
Mage Hand (lift things you don't want to touch)
Mending (minor repairs on stuff)
Prestidgitation (Cleaning, flavoring)

1st: 5 spells:
Alarm (cause issues for petty thieves)
Endure Elements (who doesn't want to stay warm?)
Unseen Servant (obvious)
Enlarge Person (reach the top shelf)
Silent Image (minor entertainments)

2nd: 5 spells:
Resist Energy (for when working in the kitchens, at the forge, and so on)
Locate Object (wait, where did I leave my keys...)
See Invisibility (in case of assassins... and because you'll be using the next on some of the servants)
Invisibility (so your servers don't need to disrupt the meal)
Darkvision (so the servants don't need to wake anyone up by turning on a light)

3rd: 4 spells:
Shrink Item (so you can carry around a larger number of useful items)
Tongues (who needs a translator?)
Tiny Hut (for when you want to warm someone up easily)
Fly (for when the top shelf is very high up)

4th: 4 spells:
Shadow Conjouration (for Phantom Steed, to travel, mostly)
Illusory Wall (Decorations)
Dimension Door (for getting around the manor quickly)
Wall of Ice (for cooling drinks - punch a hole in it, then pass stuff through)

5th: 4 spells:
Mage's Private Sanctum (So your lord can have a bit of privacy)
Wall of Stone (construction)
Shadow Evocation (for Daylight, Continual Flame, and Floating Disk)
Fabricate (construction)

6th: 3 spells:
Shadow Walk (rapid transportation)
Wall of Iron (construction)
Disintegrate (disposal of garbage)

7th: 3 spells:
Limited Wish (for anything I forgot)
Shadow Conjouration, Greater (for Mage's Faithful Hound, Major Creation, and Secure Shelter)
Greater Teleport (for when you really need to get somewhere in a hurry)

8th: 3 spells:
Shadow Evocation, Greater (for Contingency, Wall of Force, and Forceful hand (if someone gets too pushy with your master))
Prying Eyes, Greater (they patrol the manor, of course)
Polymorph Any Object (the right tool for the job, right now, made from whatever you have at hand)

9th: 3 spells:
Shades (for Magnificent Mansion)
Wish (in case I forget something important)
Time Stop (why yes, i *am* the fastest butler you'll ever see)

[Valwyn]

Well, my first piece of advice would be to fire the sorcerer and get yourself a wizard (a generalist, if possible) :smallbiggrin: Failing that, I think this could work for a multipurpose sorcerer:

Level 0: 9 spells
Arcane Mark
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Ghost Sound
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Read Magic

Level 1: 5 spells
Animate Rope
Feather Fall
Floating Disk
Mage Armor
Mount

Level 2: 5 spells
Arcane Lock
Knock
Minor Image
Rope Trick
See Invisibility

Level 3: 4 spells
Deep Slumber
Haste
Heroism
Tongues

Level 4: 4 spells
Invisibility, Greater
Polymorph
Stoneskin
Dimensional Anchor

Level 5: 4 spells
Overland Flight
Mage’s Faithful Hound
Telekinesis
Telepathic Bond

Level 6: 3 spells
Dispel Magic, Greater
Contingency
Antimagic Field

Level 7: 3 spells
Mage’s Magnificent Mansion
Teleport, Greater
Shadow Conjuration, Greater

Level 8: 3 spells
Antipathy
Mind Blank
Polymorph Any Object

Level 9: 3 spells
Refuge
Shapechange
Wish

(note that I've never actually played the game, so this are just spells that sound useful)

[Zaq]

Heh, so would this be the "Alfred" Sorcerer to the "Batman" Wizard?
Actually a pretty cool thought experiment. Definitely see this as potential for a butler/majordomo type, supplemented with the appropriate scrolls.

Edit: Real quick thought, might follow this with a further build later, but Animate Rope, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, would be awesome for a craftsman type or just general usefulness (clean all of those hard-to-reach places, large-scale construction, working with fine details).

I totally approve of this name. The Alfred Sorcerer. I love it.

I like the lists that everyone's tossed together. I don't agree with every single one of the choices, but I've seen enough to believe that this is a viable concept. Nifty. Maybe I'll add it to my list of "characters to play eventually."

I wonder what feats and PrCs would fit thematically? I mean, if we're a Sorcerer, then we could take Toughness for every feat and still be a useful and functional party member, but . . . hmm. Not many of the good feats really have too much use around the manor. Extend Spell, perhaps . . . kind of drawing a blank for much else. Maybe our feats would have to go in a totally different direction.

[Jack_Simth]

I totally approve of this name. The Alfred Sorcerer. I love it.

I like the lists that everyone's tossed together. I don't agree with every single one of the choices, but I've seen enough to believe that this is a viable concept. Nifty. Maybe I'll add it to my list of "characters to play eventually."

I wonder what feats and PrCs would fit thematically? I mean, if we're a Sorcerer, then we could take Toughness for every feat and still be a useful and functional party member, but . . . hmm. Not many of the good feats really have too much use around the manor. Extend Spell, perhaps . . . kind of drawing a blank for much else. Maybe our feats would have to go in a totally different direction.
Feats: Extend Spell, any of the item crafting feats, Quicken Spell (with the meta-magic specialist alternate class feature, the Arcane Preparation feat, or the ... what was it called, Rapid Metamagic feat that removes the extra time cost?), the non-offensive reserve feats (Summon Elemental is great for a handy servant, for instance, if you also pick up the elemental languages).

PrC's: Mage of the Arcane Order: Now you can pull any other Core Sor/Wiz spell, too.

[erikun]

I like the lists that everyone's tossed together. I don't agree with every single one of the choices, but I've seen enough to believe that this is a viable concept. Nifty. Maybe I'll add it to my list of "characters to play eventually."
Well, it depends on if you wanted a combat sorcerer with spells that could be used around the house, or a household sorcerer with spells that could be used around combat. Jack Smith has put together a really good list.

As for feats, are we still considering the Alfred Butler? I'd also recommend Silent Spell for not disturbing anyone while working. Nobody wants a butler that constantly mutters to himself. It works well with Extended Invisibility to ensure that you stay out of the way - or handy for "watching" troublesome guests.

[Squiggles]

I would also consider Invisible Spell so you can use your magic in front of guests without distracting everyone with a puff of smoke

[Hecuba]

Feats: Extend Spell, any of the item crafting feats, Quicken Spell (with the meta-magic specialist alternate class feature, the Arcane Preparation feat, or the ... what was it called, Rapid Metamagic feat that removes the extra time cost?), the non-offensive reserve feats (Summon Elemental is great for a handy servant, for instance, if you also pick up the elemental languages).

PrC's: Mage of the Arcane Order: Now you can pull any other Core Sor/Wiz spell, too.

Potential feat options:

Item Crafting Feats to consider:

Craft Wonderous Item
Bind Elemental
Craft Construct
Craft Magical Arms and Armor
Craft Rune Circle
Forge Ring
Portal Master
Brew Potion


I would generally avoid item creation feats that create items only usable by casters/ with UMD: the character is making things for their patron, not their peers.

For metamagic, I would look at feats that deal with range, duration, and VSM components. All of those are sufficiently general to be useful on a wide range of spells that aren't explicitly combat oriented.

[Jack_Simth]

I would generally avoid item creation feats that create items only usable by casters/ with UMD: the character is making things for their patron, not their peers.Not necessarily. The caster could also be making items for himself to use on days where he's going to need to cast a rather lot in rapid succession (Craft Wand, Craft Staff). But yeah, Scribe Scroll is probably out.