Warforged Druid Ironwood Body as 1st feat Issue...

[TechnOkami]

So, my GM is probably being a rule stickler because, well, he's the GM, and this is what he's saying: a Warforged Druid CAN be a Druid, but since you get your 1st level feat only after you take your first class, it would mean that you would have to have armor on as a warforged when you become a Druid, meaning you can't become a druid as a warforged at 1st level. You'd have to take a dip in another class, take the Ironwood Body feat, and only then start your progression into druid...

...I feel as if there's something massively flawed here. If he's correct, then it's simply as he says and I can't be a druid until 2nd level, but is he correct?

[Veyr]

Run away from your DM as fast as you can. Anyone who would be that much of a stickler is likely to have terrible problems in his game (because there are far less nit-picky rules than that that will lead to horrible problems).

But technically, he is correct, choosing your feat comes after choosing your class in character creation.

Of course, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for a racial feat like Ironwood Body.

You choose your feat after you choose your class, but there's nothing saying that you cannot take a Druid level while wearing metal armor. If you wear metal armor while you have a Druid level, you lose your spellcasting and spell-like class features until you have gone 24 hours without it on. Since you've taken the Ironwood Body feat at some point in the past (more than a day ago, since you would have had to have been manufactured with it), you should have all of your class features anyway. And that even if your DM is being terrible.

Also, especially at first level, just because there's a certain mechanical order in which choices are made (and they can impact each other on a mechanical level), does not mean that you were a Druid before you gained the benefits of Ironwood Body on a fluff level. Having that feat means you were built with that body to begin with.

Alternatively:

Bite the DM as hard as you can. This may not solve any of your problems, but it will be highly satisfying.

[olentu]

Wait wait wait where is this weird requirement about not wearing armor to take the class coming from.

[TechnOkami]

Win good sir, win.

[Amnestic]

"A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield
is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spelllike
class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter."

Take your druid level+feat more than 24 gametime hours before game starts=No issues at all?

[TheGeckoKing]

Your DM's arguement boils down to:

"You attuned yourself deeply with nature before you had your skin attached to your body"

HIT HIM. /jk

[The Dark Fiddler]

Don't class levels replace the first racial hit die for creatures that don't have more than one? I know it works that way for humanoids at least.

If so, you take your Ironwood Body feat at Construct 1, then when you take a level in druid it replaces your RHD and you become Druid 1 with Ironwood Body.

Plus, wearing armor doesn't prevent you from taking druid levels anyway.

[Psyren]

Ugh, not this crap again.

I am going to bold this so your DM sees it clearly:

A Warforged's default composite plating does not prevent him from becoming a druid. It does not count as metal armor. Only the feats Adamantine Body and Mithral Body would be violations. Even if you do not take Ironwood Body, you can be a Warforged Druid with no repercussions, so long as you do not take AB or MB.

Ironwood Body is NOT necessary to be a Warforged Druid. It is simply there for you to have an armor boost at first level (like other classes can get) without sacrificing druidism.

Source 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a)
Source 2: Races of Eberron pg. 119 (Ironwood Body feat)

Ergo, even by your DM's reasoning, your Warforged can become a druid at character creation before gaining his feat (this is also silly, but whatever, we'll go with it), and then choose to be made out of Ironwood Body after being created (I feel like I lost brain cells just typing that.)

You are right, he is wrong.

[Leon]

The only thing a Default Warforged Body does to any class is mildly inconvenience Arcane Casters with a 5% Spell failure chance.

[opticalshadow]

clearly your dm should maybe concider reading some of the rules a bit more clearly before hosting games.


the above covers it, but id right now discuss any future things you want to doa nd get it out of the way, he seems like its going to be an uphill battle of ignorence.

[Honest Tiefling]

I don't know Eberron, so I won't argue about that. Through I am pretty sure that Warforged don't wander around without plating very well...Again, I don't know Warforged, but the plating seems to be their skin and skeleton. So how you'd manage to walk, let alone become a druid baffles me.

But your DM is being silly. If you had to gain a class BEFORE any feat, then some feats would be pretty silly. Apparently, if two siblings have slight giant heritage in Forgotten Realms, one might become part giant after the age of 16, while the other, due to a different class might have to wait until he is older to be part giant.

Talk with the other players to see if he's made any other bizarre rulings. It could be a singular case of brain fart or misunderstanding the feat/race, but if he's constantly making nitpicky rulings that go against common sense you might want to reconsider playing.

[TechnOkami]

Ugh, not this crap again.

I am going to bold this so your DM sees it clearly:

A Warforged's default composite plating does not prevent him from becoming a druid. It does not count as metal armor. Only the feats Adamantine Body and Mithral Body would be violations. Even if you do not take Ironwood Body, you can be a Warforged Druid with no repercussions, so long as you do not take AB or MB.

Ironwood Body is NOT necessary to be a Warforged Druid. It is simply there for you to have an armor boost at first level (like other classes can get) without sacrificing druidism.

Source 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a)
Source 2: Races of Eberron pg. 119 (Ironwood Body feat)

Ergo, even by your DM's reasoning, your Warforged can become a druid at character creation before gaining his feat (this is also silly, but whatever, we'll go with it), and then choose to be made out of Ironwood Body after being created (I feel like I lost brain cells just typing that.)

You are right, he is wrong.

I never knew this, now I don't have to waste a feat if I don't want to, thank you.

[MeeposFire]

The body feats are the most questioned part of playing a warforged.

Just for clarity their default plating does not hinder in any way druids or monks.

[Psyren]

I never knew this, now I don't have to waste a feat if I don't want to, thank you.

You're welcome! You're also free to print my post and (gently) rub it on his face. Reinforcement is key to learning :smallwink:


The body feats are the most questioned part of playing a warforged.

It boggles me as to why. If Warforged somehow couldn't be Druids, it would have been spelled out in ECS, rather than waiting for RoE to "fix the problem" with a generous feat tax.

Personally I think it's just innate bias against "robo-druids."

[Coidzor]

It's been said before, but it really does bear repeating.


Bite the DM as hard as you can. This may not solve any of your problems, but it will be highlybeary satisfying.

[Greenish]

Again, I don't know Warforged, but the plating seems to be their skin and skeleton.Nah, it's just armour plating on the top. They'll do fine without it, only losing the AC and minor fortification (that's actually a result of the plating protecting their vulnerables, not of their construct nature).


So how you'd manage to walk, let alone become a druid baffles me.Who says you have to be able to walk to become a druid?

Heck, the Great Druid Oalian can at best lurch about at the speed of 10', and rarely if ever bothers.

[Veyr]

Nah, it's just armour plating on the top. They'll do fine without it, only losing the AC and minor fortification (that's actually a result of the plating protecting their vulnerables, not of their construct nature).
The average Warforged could not have their armor plating removed. It's a part of how they were manufactured. The Adamantine Body, Ironwood Body, Mithral Body, Psiforged, and similar feats all represent different models of Warforged: they were originally crafted with those features. That's why they can only be taken at 1st.

Note how much effort Reforged have to go through to remove their armor plating after the fact.

[Honest Tiefling]

Do they have an endoskeleten or other support systems? Through I think that while it is difficult to get the armor off, the point of the post was that it is not how Warforged are structurally supported.

[Veyr]

I'd guess they probably have an endoskeleton, but I'd also guess that a fair few of their circulatory systems have routes that go through the plating, which means you can't simply remove it. Remember, they feel through the plating.

[Stone Heart]

Doesn't one of the warforged body feats allow you to have not the base composite, and not adamantine, mithral or ironwood, so you basically just wear armor as normal? I vaguely recall that, but I could be wrong.

[Greenish]

Doesn't one of the warforged body feats allow you to have not the base composite, and not adamantine, mithral or ironwood, so you basically just wear armor as normal?Yeah, Unarmored Body.

[Veyr]

Unarmored Body; it's been mentioned a few times in the thread.

EDIT: Stupid 60-second timer...

[Marnath]

I'd guess they probably have an endoskeleton, but I'd also guess that a fair few of their circulatory systems have routes that go through the plating, which means you can't simply remove it. Remember, they feel through the plating.

Actually, they've got a metal/wood framework inside them, surrounded by a bunch of some sort of fibrous bundles under the plating. I'm pretty sure they don't have any blood/blood equivilant or a sense of touch.

Here's (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a) the article where they describe them.

[Psyren]

Actually, they've got a metal/wood framework inside them, surrounded by a bunch of some sort of fibrous bundles under the plating. I'm pretty sure they don't have any blood/blood equivilant or a sense of touch.

Here's (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a) the article where they describe them.

Incorrect - they most definitely have a sense of touch. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050711a)

They don't have a circulatory system per se - the living wood components to their construction facilitate things like drinking potions or Heroes Feast.

[Fax Celestis]

I don't know Eberron, so I won't argue about that. Through I am pretty sure that Warforged don't wander around without plating very well...Again, I don't know Warforged, but the plating seems to be their skin and skeleton. So how you'd manage to walk, let alone become a druid baffles me.

Let me point you at the Unarmored Body feat from Races of Eberron.

[Veyr]

Actually, they've got a metal/wood framework inside them, surrounded by a bunch of some sort of fibrous bundles under the plating. I'm pretty sure they don't have any blood/blood equivilant or a sense of touch.

Here's (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a) the article where they describe them.
Sigh, I knew I should have followed my instincts and been more verbose there.

I said "circulatory systems" — I was not referring to "the circulatory system" of animals (i.e. heart -> lungs -> heart -> body -> heart again), but to the concept of any "circulatory system", that is, any system that circulates material or information throughout the body. I was basically referring to the circulatory, endocrine, and nervous systems, and probably a few more I'm forgetting.

Warforged would basically require analogues of each of these systems in order to function as they do, though they may not have a mirror to each system (for instance, it's likely that many of the functions of the endocrine system would be largely handled by their version of the nervous system).


EDIT: Heh, I do like the Ghulra, though. Nice homage to the Golem.

[Sdonourg]

Warforged Druid with Ironwood Body reminds me of this.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100506032012/megaman/images/thumb/1/11/CW-16-WoodMan-Art.jpg/270px-CW-16-WoodMan-Art.jpg

I think, that 24 in-game hours without spellcasting is not a problem.

[Psyren]

Warforged Druid with Ironwood Body reminds me of this.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100506032012/megaman/images/thumb/1/11/CW-16-WoodMan-Art.jpg/270px-CW-16-WoodMan-Art.jpg


Or this:

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/wooden-bender-28332.jpg?1173381524

:smalltongue:

[Greenish]

Warforged would basically require analogues of each of these systems in order to function as they doWarforged don't eat or breathe, so what would they circulate?

They'd need some form of nerves, probably, yeah (though I'm not certain they feel through the plating, it's not like they're covered head to toe in it). Or maybe they're creatures of magic that defy natural laws. :smalltongue:

[Veyr]

Magical conduits seem a likely replacement.

As for the circulation system, just because they have stores of energy that do not require external resources does not necessarily mean that that energy is automatically where it needs to be. Presumably something would be required to move it from where it is produced or stored to where it is needed.

[Psyren]

Warforged don't eat or breathe, so what would they circulate?

Not needing to is not quite the same as never doing it.

As I said before, a warforged can benefit from potions, as well as Heroes' Feast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroesFeast.htm) and similar effects. If they had no means to circulate these once ingested, they would have to, for instance, pour a healing potion directly onto a wound rather than drink it.

The fibrous network of living wood that is part of every Warforged's construction does run throughout their entire body and facilitate this transmission. The only thing they don't have is an engine pumping any kind of medium throughout. Effectively, they have a system of veins, but no heart or blood.

[MeeposFire]

Well they have something analogous to blood since if I recall most/all abilities based on blood drain work on warforged and they do lose something.

[TechnOkami]

So, I just want to clarify something. Warforged don't need the Ironwood Body feat to become a Druid, that is clear, but they lose the transition of their innate armor bonus to their wildshapes?

[Coidzor]

So, I just want to clarify something. Warforged don't need the Ironwood Body feat to become a Druid, that is clear, but they lose the transition of their innate armor bonus to their wildshapes?

I believe so. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules)

[TechnOkami]

That.... ...sucks... :smallfrown:

[MeeposFire]

That.... ...sucks... :smallfrown:

Why is that?

[Cog]

So, I just want to clarify something. Warforged don't need the Ironwood Body feat to become a Druid, that is clear, but they lose the transition of their innate armor bonus to their wildshapes?
That is correct. However, if you do take one of the various armor feats, that does carry over into Wild Shape.

[TechnOkami]

That is correct. However, if you do take one of the various armor feats, that does carry over into Wild Shape.

Aaha... >:D

[nick3464]

I realize that this is an old thread, but I thought I'd address some Wild Shape issues in regard to a Warforged Druid. A Warforged loses his Slam attack when he Wild Shapes, but that's it. You don't lose your Composite Plating with or without a feat, because it's not natural armor. You keep all extraordinary qualities of your original form. So you keep your Composite Plating, and your immunities, but you lose your slam attack. Which you probably don't want anyway.

[Zaq]

I realize that this is an old thread,

If you realize that, you shouldn't reply to it. That's against the rules here. Sorry.

[TechnOkami]

Inb4 Mod comes in to lock the thread. :smallamused:

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Ind33d. Thread necromancy is bad, mmmmk.