When Captain America throws his mighty shield... (Captain America Film)

[kpenguin]

All those who chose to oppose must yield!
If he’s led to a fight and a duel is due!
Then the red and the white and the blue'll come through!

WHEN CAPTAIN AMERICA THROWS HIS MIGHTY SHIEEEEEELD!


Thought I'd put up a thread discussing the upcoming Captain America film, titled Captain America: The First Avenger. I'll admit, I was skeptical at first at Chris Evan's casting, but I think I could grow to like it. Hugo Weaving as Red Skull? Sweet. The trailer? Pretty cool.

My hope is that it has a very 1940s pulp feel about it, just like X-Men: FC had a 60's James Bond feel about it.

Also, just check out this beautiful limited edition film poster:


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w118/kpenguin222/captain-america-poster-2.jpg (http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w118/kpenguin222/captain-america-poster.jpg)

Magnificent.

So, what do you guys think? Excited? Hopeful? Unimpressed? Disdainful? Not going to be worth the ticket? Discuss!

[Dr.Epic]

Thought I'd put up a thread discussing the upcoming Captain America film, titled Captain America: The First Avenger. I'll admit, I was skeptical at first at Chris Evan's casting, but I think I could grow to like it. Hugo Weaving as Red Skull? Sweet. The trailer? Pretty cool.

I can't help but think what they did to Captain America is kind of like a metaphor for Chris Evans in this. I mean he plays the character and Steve Rogers is initially turned down because he's so weak, but they give a super serum to make him powerful. Like they saw him in Fantastic Four and initially turned him down but then injected him with super serum to give him a better performance.

Still, looks good. Looks better than Thor and I loved Thor. I heard a certain cube plays role in the film.

[comicshorse]

In the trailer when he holds up the Shield and the spunky girl spy shoots it to show how tough it is, did anybody else have to repress the desire to yell " What about the richochets you idiot "

[Dr.Epic]

In the trailer when he holds up the Shield and the spunky girl spy shoots it to show how tough it is, did anybody else have to repress the desire to yell " What about the richochets you idiot "

My thought was actually "Hey, if the shield wasn't bulletproof you just killed the super soldier that's supposed to win this world war for us."

[Traab]

My first thought was, "Then in the next scene, we see captain america beating the bloody hell out of a woman for shooting at him." Chivalry is all well and good, but there are two exceptions. Exception one, if the girl in question tries to nut me. Exception two SHOOTING AT ME!

[Worira]

Or if he hadn't blocked it at all, since regardless of how great his reflexes are in combat, he wasn't expecting his ally to just start shooting him in the face.

[Dr.Epic]

Who wants to bet they pull a Jango Fett and at some point have a little child Tony Stark like run up and meet Captain America? (yeah, I know it's very unlikely as that'd make him a lot older in the Iron Man films)

[MCerberus]

So this is the last piece that needs to fall in line before the Avengers movie right?

[Dr.Epic]

So this is the last piece that needs to fall in line before the Avengers movie right?

Well they still need to decide on Stan Lee's cameo for that film. Considering all the films leading up to the Avengers, it's going to have to be something impressive. Maybe they'll give him an entire paragraph's worth of dialogue to say.

[Traab]

Well they still need to decide on Stan Lee's cameo for that film. Considering all the films leading up to the Avengers, it's going to have to be something impressive. Maybe they'll give him an entire paragraph's worth of dialogue to say.


"Can I take your coat Steve?"

"The meeting is right down that hall."

EPIC! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

"Can I take your coat Steve?"

"The meeting is right down that hall."

EPIC! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Hey, slow it down. I think we have to wait for the sequel for Stan Lee to actually say a proper noun. You start there and you have nowhere left to go.

[Traab]

Hey, slow it down. I think we have to wait for the sequel for Stan Lee to actually say a proper noun. You start there and you have nowhere left to go.

Good point, he wont say that much till the actual avengers movie. "Hi Steve!" There, short, sweet, and too the point. We get a hand wave as stan walks by the young man.

[Soras Teva Gee]

My hope is that it has a very 1940s pulp feel about it, just like X-Men: FC had a 60's James Bond feel about it.

No dice. Its going to be an epic war movie. Expect the obligatory Normandy-Landing/Saving-Private-Ryan ripoff, probably with Cap taking out a bunker single handed or something.

[KnightDisciple]

Who wants to bet they pull a Jango Fett and at some point have a little child Tony Stark like run up and meet Captain America? (yeah, I know it's very unlikely as that'd make him a lot older in the Iron Man films)I dunno. In Iron Man 2, Tony's dad looks to be a decade or more older than he is in the Captain America trailer, and Tony's really young in the home movie. I'd place Tony in his 30's, very early 40's at most. Which means "born in the 60s or 70s". Howard Stark in the CA movie is probably in his early 20's; give him a couple of decades to spawn Tony.

Marvel's running a decently tight ship on these sorts of things; while they may play loose a bit with Howard's age, they wouldn't change Tony's age that much.

[Icewalker]

No dice. Its going to be an epic war movie. Expect the obligatory Normandy-Landing/Saving-Private-Ryan ripoff, probably with Cap taking out a bunker single handed or something.

War comics definitely falls under the heading of pulp. Could totally still work fine.

Honestly, considering how incredible that poster looks, just the right kind of stylized, I have even higher hopes, and I was already expecting a pretty good movie.

[Pronounceable]

Wonder if he'll actually punch Hitler..

[Dienekes]

Wonder if he'll actually punch Hitler..

If he doesn't I will be sorely disappointed.

[WalkingTarget]

Well, there is a reason for that image on the poster - historical precedent.

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/captain-america/1-2.jpg

[Traab]

Why would he PUNCH hitler, when he could shield bash his skull right off the top of his neck instead?

[doliest]

Because he's Captain America. Duh. :smalltongue:

[Traab]

Yeah.,... and its HITLER, duh. If anyone gets a decapitation by shield its him! Certainly more than a PUNCH.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah.,... and its HITLER, duh. If anyone gets a decapitation by shield its him! Certainly more than a PUNCH.

He punches him FIRST. Then decapitates him.

[Dr.Epic]

Good point, he wont say that much till the actual avengers movie. "Hi Steve!" There, short, sweet, and too the point. We get a hand wave as stan walks by the young man.

OMG! If the Avengers do have Eh! Steve that'll be the greatest crossover ever! Could we get Dangeresque also? And Dangeresque Too too?

[Lemonus]

I think Cap's helmet looks kinda stupid in the movie. Just me.

[Dr.Epic]

I think Cap's helmet looks kinda stupid in the movie. Just me.

Well what would you prefer? Yellow spandex? Wait, wrong comics.

[Lemonus]

Well what would you prefer? Yellow spandex? Wait, wrong comics.

I'm not sure. It just looks... odd.

[Traab]

Im not sure why his helmet needs wings. I keep getting this mental image of Cap falling off a cliff, and being dangled by his head as his helmet wings struggle to keep him in the air. :p

[Venom3053000]

kinda weird pretty much the first thing i tought when i heard about this movie was that Captain America's costume would look strange in live action but it's not bad

edit: oh and if Buckey would be in it

[MCerberus]

There's a credit in IMDB for someone playing Bucky, so take that for what you will.

[Nageto004]

edit: oh and if Buckey would be in it

From what I've seen Sebastian Stan is to be playing him.

[KnightDisciple]

Im not sure why his helmet needs wings. I keep getting this mental image of Cap falling off a cliff, and being dangled by his head as his helmet wings struggle to keep him in the air. :pYou can drop the mental image now, because those wings are paint, nothing more (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110315154315/marveldatabase/images/9/9d/Steven_Rogers_%28Earth-199999%29_0002.jpg).

[Traab]

You can drop the mental image now, because those wings are paint, nothing more (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110315154315/marveldatabase/images/9/9d/Steven_Rogers_%28Earth-199999%29_0002.jpg).

Paint or not, the image is there, because the wings are silly looking.Why not give him a cape that randomly fires off roman candles while you are at it, totally ruin any impressive effect his appearance may have.

[KnightDisciple]

Paint or not, the image is there, because the wings are silly looking.Why not give him a cape that randomly fires off roman candles while you are at it, totally ruin any impressive effect his appearance may have.

First, this is a comic book movie. If symbolic costumes that "look ridiculous" aren't your thing...Why are you watching such movies? :smalltongue:

Second, of all the stuff on his costume, you're focusing on the wings that are just paint?

Third, it pretty obvious they are trying to call back to his classic outfit.

Fourth, the wings are symbolic of an eagle, which is part of the whole Captain AMERICA thing. Cap is as much a symbol as he is "just" a hero.

[Traab]

First, this is a comic book movie. If symbolic costumes that "look ridiculous" aren't your thing...Why are you watching such movies? :smalltongue:

Second, of all the stuff on his costume, you're focusing on the wings that are just paint?

Third, it pretty obvious they are trying to call back to his classic outfit.

Fourth, the wings are symbolic of an eagle, which is part of the whole Captain AMERICA thing. Cap is as much a symbol as he is "just" a hero.

Hmph, most costumes look appropriate for a super hero out to save the day. Captain America is a SOLDIER. He is fighting in a fricking war, not web slinging around gotham in order to catch von doom. Having fluffy white angel wings on the side of his head just doesnt work right for an outfit of a soldier.

The rest of his costume is clearly the american theme. Its a bit silly, but at least it all fits in a red white and blue theme, not wings, which arent simply painted onto the comic version.


Pfft, they look like angel wings not eagle wings. Eagle wings arent WHITE!
Of course its a call back to his first outfit, its his first appearance. It would be like doing another creation movie for batman and putting him in the terry mcguinnes costume instead.

[smellie_hippie]

Well they still need to decide on Stan Lee's cameo for that film. Considering all the films leading up to the Avengers, it's going to have to be something impressive. Maybe they'll give him an entire paragraph's worth of dialogue to say.

They may pull something with Stan Lee like they did in Mallrats... :smallamused:

[WalkingTarget]

Hmph, most costumes look appropriate for a super hero out to save the day. Captain America is a SOLDIER. He is fighting in a fricking war, [snip]

He is also a walking, talking (shooting, running, shield-throwing, punching, etc.) piece of propaganda. He's not just there to fight in the war, he's there to be a symbol to everyone else who's either fighting alongside him, fighting against him, or even just watching the newsreels back home. Hence the costume in the first place.

Sure the winged helmet is kinda goofy, but including them (painted on) should hopefully at least check the nerdrage that would probably ensue if they left them off entirely because the comics version had them.

Edit - winged helmets weren't just made up for him either. I always first thought of a connection to Mercury, the same way that the Flash's costume (especially Jay Garrick's) utilized it - evoking the idea of speed - not necessarily an eagle.

[Traab]

He is also a walking, talking (shooting, running, shield-throwing, punching, etc.) piece of propaganda. He's not just there to fight in the war, he's there to be a symbol to everyone else who's either fighting alongside him, fighting against him, or even just watching the newsreels back home. Hence the costume in the first place.

Sure the winged helmet is kinda goofy, but including them (painted on) should hopefully at least check the nerdrage that would probably ensue if they left them off entirely because the comics version had them.

Edit - winged helmets weren't just made up for him either. I always first thought of a connection to Mercury, the same way that the Flash's costume (especially Jay Garrick's) utilized it - evoking the idea of speed - not necessarily an eagle.

I get that he is propaganda, thats why I dont object too strenuously to the red white and blue motif. The wings though are just silly. They are superfluous and really have no business being on there. They arent even eagle wings. I get the nerdrage, and I understand why various costumed vigilantes might have wings on their costumes, but it makes no real sense for him to have them.

[Ravens_cry]

Translating a costume from one medium to the next is difficult. A design that is bold and dramatic in the broad, flat colours of Silver and Golden age comics looks flat and simplistic if merely regurgitated on camera.

[Fjolnir]

Here's hoping there's a "Sgt Rock and his howling commandos" throwback with a certain furious soldier with two eyes as well.

Nevermind, I see "also staring the howling commandos" so a young Nick Fury is a guarantee...

[Tyndmyr]

Translating a costume from one medium to the next is difficult. A design that is bold and dramatic in the broad, flat colours of Silver and Golden age comics looks flat and simplistic if merely regurgitated on camera.

And bing, we see one of the problems with the fantastic four.

Im ok with the costume redo, provided I get tie ins to other marvel movies, captain america punching hitler in the face and the world exploding behind him as he rides off toward the horizon to punch the goddamned sunset. And then he gets frozen for a while and becomes a leader of the avengers. Then, everything is right in the world.

[WalkingTarget]

Here's hoping there's a "Sgt Rock and his howling commandos" throwback with a certain furious soldier with two eyes as well.

Nevermind, I see "also staring the howling commandos" so a young Nick Fury is a guarantee...

Figure that they'll get into the Infinity Formula (or something as a research offshoot of the Super Soldier Serum maybe) to keep him around that long?

[Runestar]

What are the chances he will yell "Final Justice!!!" while rushing at the enemies and punching the heck out of them? :smalltongue::smallamused:

[Athaniar]

Maybe I'm just a real optimist, but I think this movie is going to be awesome. Thor didn't disappoint me, nothing indicates that this one is going to. Plus, that vintage poster is awesome.

[kpenguin]

You know, the talk of Captain America's head-wings made me realize what was missing from Thor's outfit in his movie.

Cap and Shellhead get their respective headgears... is Chris Hemsworth really that much prettier than Chris Evans and RDJ to take away Thor's helmet?

[SPoD]

You know, the talk of Captain America's head-wings made me realize what was missing from Thor's outfit in his movie.

Cap and Shellhead get their respective headgears... is Chris Hemsworth really that much prettier than Chris Evans and RDJ to take away Thor's helmet?

It's not their face that's the issue, it's the hair. Thor's long flowing blond hair is actually more iconic than his helmet is. Also, they're partly keying off the Ultimate universe, in which there is no helmet at all.

[Traab]

It's not their face that's the issue, it's the hair. Thor's long flowing blond hair is actually more iconic than his helmet is. Also, they're partly keying off the Ultimate universe, in which there is no helmet at all.

I have to agree here, I dont even READ thor comics and the long flowing blond hair is instantly brought to mind when I think of him. I had to think for a minute to remember thors winged helm.

[grimbold]

i'm really looking forward too it
i think that if they get the 40's aura it will be awesome

[Reverent-One]

New trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlF0A69EIXU&feature=player_embedded). And it's looking pretty sweet. It also confirms that the Nazis do exist, Hydra's just a faction within them.

[Xondoure]

Very excited for this film. Not only does it look awesome but it throws the FFFF (fail F4 films) out of continuity. Two birds. One stone. :smallsmile:

[Ridureyu]

Maybe he has those wings because he's been drinking Red Bull.

[WNxHasoroth]

I won't deny that watching this trailer made me incredibly happy, I can't wait for July 28th

Edit:


HEROES

ARE MADE

IN AMERICA

[TheEmerged]

Maybe I'm just a real optimist, but I think this movie is going to be awesome. Thor didn't disappoint me, nothing indicates that this one is going to. Plus, that vintage poster is awesome.

/optimism on
It's a superhero. Beating up on Nazis. How can you POSSIBLY screw that formula up?
/optimism off

/pessimism on
Dear God, they're going to try and find out, aren't they?
/pessimism off

:smallwink:

[otakuryoga]

will you be going to see it


and are you as puzzled as i am why they didnt release it for the July 4 weekend....would have been such a natural tie-in

[Ravens_cry]

I see your keyboard has something that resembles a period key and at least one capital letter. Please use them.
***
As for Captain America, I might see it. I just hope it doesn't feel completely 'awesome' and nonsensical. You need more then boobs and explosions to make a good movie, better dialogue than 'witty' one liners. Just because you can do anything with CGI, does not mean you should do everything. You don't need to make it brooding and 'dark', but you don't need to make it a farce either.
I have my hopes, but superhero movies are still working out some kinks in my view.

[Friv]

will you be going to see it

hell yes


and are you as puzzled as i am why they didnt release it for the July 4 weekend....would have been such a natural tie-in

Actually, this makes sense to me. The July 4th weekend is generally a weekend when Americans are having family get-togethers and barbeques, going outside, and blowing things up for freedom. It's probably not actually a great time to release a film.

[Tyrant]

Actually, this makes sense to me. The July 4th weekend is generally a weekend when Americans are having family get-togethers and barbeques, going outside, and blowing things up for freedom. It's probably not actually a great time to release a film.
It's usually a pretty solid weekend to release a movie, actually. So long as you are big summer movie type movie. The reason this one didn't is because they didn't want it to be steamrolled by Transformers 3 like everything else at the box office. Also, it and Transformers 3 are being released by Paramount so they wouldn't release 2 movies the same weekend.

As for the movie, yes I will be going to see it.

[nyarlathotep]

Actually, this makes sense to me. The July 4th weekend is generally a weekend when Americans are having family get-togethers and barbeques, going outside, and blowing things up for freedom. It's probably not actually a great time to release a film.

Kind of, for a lot of people I know part of their family get-togethers include going to the movies and everyone has vacation time, but I think Tyrant is right in that the same company was already releasing a different movie.

[Dr.Otaku]

now, see, to me since its the same company it makes even LESS sense...they coulda easily swapped the dates on these 2 movies and had capt america come out for july 4 and transformers on the later date

[KillianHawkeye]

now, see, to me since its the same company it makes even LESS sense...they coulda easily swapped the dates on these 2 movies and had capt america come out for july 4 and transformers on the later date

Except that Transformers is a proven box office smash hit, whereas Captain America isn't.



That being said, the movie looks like it will be awesome and I am definitely going to see it.

[Tyrant]

now, see, to me since its the same company it makes even LESS sense...they coulda easily swapped the dates on these 2 movies and had capt america come out for july 4 and transformers on the later date
I understand why it seems like it would make sense to do that. But, July 4th weekend and memorial day weekend are the big summer weekends at the box office. If a studio has 2 properties and one of them has a proven track record, for that general time frame no less, they are going to open that movie on the big summer weekend and not take any chances. If it weren't the big summer weekend, I agree they should've switched them. Here (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/july-4th.htm) is a listing of the top 12 (no clue why it's 12) July 4th opening weekends to give you an idea of how big the box office opening can be for this weekend.

[TheEmerged]

I have my hopes, but superhero movies are still working out some kinks in my view.

I've been joking for a while now that the Captain America movie almost had to be good due to the decision to make it a period piece. "It's a superhero. Beating up on Nazis. How the <expletive> can you mess that formula up?" Then one of my pessimistic coworkers responded "This is Hollywood, they're going to try..."

Comedy aside, as someone who sees most of the superhero movies (I skipped Thor, planning to see it on video) and is old enough to have seen the original Superman on the screen, I think I can identify several of the kinks.

1> The people producing the movies are locked into what these characters were -- more than two decades ago. This was very noticeable in Superman Returns, for example, and figured heavily into why "Batman & Robin" stunk.

2> In many cases (Green Lantern being a recent example but Daredevil, Elektra, and the Hulk also suffered from this) it seems that the people producing the films don't understand these characters and what makes us care about them after all these years.

3> Sometimes... it's just bad film-making. The reason the first Hulk movie was horrible had nothing specific to the superhero genre at fault -- it was just a bad movie that forgot to give us a likable/sympathic character. Simiarly, the disjointedness of the Green Lantern movie had nothing to do with the fact he was wearing tights.

4> In a few of the worst case scenarios (Catwoman) the issue is that the movie has no meaningful relationship to the established character. So the people that should be the target audience are turned away.

5> Some of the superhero movies that have made it to the screen have done so not because they're superhero movies, but because they're convenient parables. This one is tough to talk about with this board's prohibitions on discussing those issues though, but I think it's enough to say that if you're pandering to one side you turn away the other.

6> There has been at least one case (Phantom) that hit just about every button on the screen it could -- but was horrifically marketted. Thankfully with the intertubes a film has the potential to recover from something like this.

7> And finally, a big one. Let's face it, there are some absurdities with the genre. The movie makers seem to swing wildly between homaging those absurdities and mocking them. Some of the best examples of the genre in print are such good examples because they manage to to walk the line (Astro City & PS238 being examples worth naming of this). This hurt Green Hornet, for example: there was a good movie here that kept trying to sneak out, and then we'd get jokes about the main character being in adult diapers.

=============

As for the Captain America movie itself? I declared it my annual exception to the "Thou Shalt Not See Movies on Premiere Weekend" rule early on.

[veven]

I am excited for the movie and will certainly see it. I only started reading comics a few years ago but once I got my hands on Civil war Cap became one of my favorites. I think I am more excited for the Avengers movie though, for two reasons. Number One, Joss Whedon writing & directing. 'Nuff said. Number two, I love Jeremy Renner and I love Hawkeye so I'm happy to see he made it into the film. Hopefully he has more the four lines.

[kpenguin]

MARVEL has released some clips from the film. One of the whole "grenade" scene, one of the transformation sequence, one of Howard Stark explaining the shield, and a fight sequence with some Ratzis.

What strikes me most is the soundtrack here. It sounds just about right, I think.

[Falconer]

I'm actually pretty interested in seeing the movie. Never really been interested in comic books at all, and as a rule I avoid "superhero" movies because 1) I'm neither all that familiar with nor interested in the genre and 2) I find that they usually look stupid.

But this? I admit it: this looks friggin' awesome.

[Fjolnir]

My minor nitpick is that the black guy shown in the Howlin' Commandos is NOT Nick Fury...

[kpenguin]

My minor nitpick is that the black guy shown in the Howlin' Commandos is NOT Nick Fury...

I think he's supposed to be Derek Luke, who's the token black member of the Holwin' Commandos in the comics.

[Fjolnir]

True, but when you have a Howlin' Commando who is black, and recruiting Avengers in the future (in this universe) you really need to connect the two...

[KnightDisciple]

I think he's supposed to be Derek Luke, who's the token black member of the Holwin' Commandos in the comics.To be fair, the Holwin' Commandoes were basically a group of token members. Which, all things considered for the time, wasn't that bad of a thing.

[Dvandemon]

Wasn't there already a thread for this?

[Dr.Epic]

and are you as puzzled as i am why they didnt release it for the July 4 weekend....would have been such a natural tie-in

Actually yeah. This was my first thought when I say the July 22 release date. Maybe they thought releasing it then would interfere with holiday plans or it was too close to Thor's release date. Not sure.

My question is this: do they plan on doing sequels if it does well? Because I think I saw in one trailer Cap' getting thawed out of ice.

[Seonor]

My question is this: do they plan on doing sequels if it does well? Because I think I saw in one trailer Cap' getting thawed out of ice.

Not a Captain America 2 as a direct sequel, but he will be in the Avengers film(s) they make which will combine some of the current film heros into one team. Thor, Captain America, Iron Man and the Hulk will show up. Basicly all films that have Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury have the same continuity.

[Dr.Epic]

Not a Captain America 2 as a direct sequel, but he will be in the Avengers film(s) they make which will combine some of the current film heros into one team. Thor, Captain America, Iron Man and the Hulk will show up. Basicly all films that have Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury have the same continuity.

Thank you for telling me something me and everyone else has known for like 4-5 years now.

What I meant was is there going to be a sequel based solely around Captain America since Iron Man and Thor both seem to be getting their own sequels that's not the Avengers.

[Tyndmyr]

I would assume that as long as Avengers is a hit...and frankly, they'd have to really screw the pooch for it not to be...more will be made. Both direct sequels to the avengers film as well as to the individual heroes(where actors, etc can be gotten).

Marvel is on a roll right now with movies, they'd be crazy not to ride it as long as they can, and if there's one thing hollywood loves, it's putting out sequels.

[Dr.Epic]

I would assume that as long as Avengers is a hit...and frankly, they'd have to really screw the pooch for it not to be...more will be made. Both direct sequels to the avengers film as well as to the individual heroes(where actors, etc can be gotten).

Marvel is on a roll right now with movies, they'd be crazy not to ride it as long as they can, and if there's one thing hollywood loves, it's putting out sequels.

Yeah, how could anyone mess up something so good?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X3lNYc1hcaE/TGsIJJpY3NI/AAAAAAAAAxU/_eQ28v8s8_U/s1600/232980-jar_jar_binks_large.jpeg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/The_Last_Airbender_Poster.png

I'm scared now!:smalleek:

[Reverent-One]

Meh, I'm not worried. Marvel's done a solid job with their movies so far, and I have faith in Joss Whedon as well (as I'd guess you do, Dr. Epic).

[Vacant]

I think it'll be more of a "fun" movie than a "good" movie. That is to say that I think it'll be entertaining, but I don't imagine I'll be much different when I walk out at the end from when I walked into the movie. There's nothing wrong with that, though, and I'm excited to see it.

[Dr.Epic]

Meh, I'm not worried. Marvel's done a solid job with their movies so far, and I have faith in Joss Whedon as well (as I'd guess you do, Dr. Epic).

Why would you guess that?:smallconfused:

[Tyrant]

About the Avengers/Captain America... Apparently the post credit scene in Captain America is an Avengers trailer. You can find (for now) a not great version of it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMRctX7fZe4&) on youtube that appears to be recorded by some guy with a video camera. My sound isn't working on my computer for some reason right now so I have no idea what is said during this preview and I can't see half of it because it's poor quality, but it is out there and next week we can all* see it

*By all, I mean everyone who lives in a part of the world where the movie is releasing or who has the patience for a better youtube video.
I guess that's a spoiler.

Dr. Epic, I can't see why they wouldn't make a sequel if this one does well. Depending on how this movie is structured*, they could make more movies set during WWII or make them that move back and forth between then and now. Or set them entirely in the present I suppose. Iron Man and Thor are both getting sequels, so I take that as a pretty good sign.

*What I mean is if this movie has time skips in it. If it shows that several months (or a few years) pass here and there. That way you can work in a series of flashbacks to a mission involving Barons Zemo, Von Strucker, or Blood to set up a modern day plot involving them. Or in the case of Baron Zemo, his son.

Honestly what I am most interested in, in terms of the overall plot, is the fate of the Red Skull. There are ways that he can "die" and be brought back later and they may be better than trying to get the audience to believe that he is also conveniently put into some type of suspended animation. If they go with the version where he is killed by the exploding Cosmic Cube (minus the exploding bit since it's still in one piece later) then he can be reused later as a much more powerful villain when he returns having merged with the Cube.

[Vacant]

@Dr. Horrible: I believe the assumption comes from your avatar; Dr. Horrible is a Whedon project.

Personally, I find Whedon's only reliability in the fact that his worse efforts at least cycle around to accidental hilarity. It probably can't get worse than later-seasons Buffy, which was, accidentally, one of the funniest programs I've had the pleasure of watching.

Edited to make sense post-ninjaing.

[otakuryoga]

that was awesome dr epic

[hamlet]

My first thought was, "Then in the next scene, we see captain america beating the bloody hell out of a woman for shooting at him." Chivalry is all well and good, but there are two exceptions. Exception one, if the girl in question tries to nut me. Exception two SHOOTING AT ME!

Hailey Atwell can shoot at me any time she likes.:smallbiggrin:

Looking forward to this film. Planning on catching a matinee on Friday to escape the 100+ degree weather before game night.

[Friv]

True, but when you have a Howlin' Commando who is black, and recruiting Avengers in the future (in this universe) you really need to connect the two...

Captain America takes place 65 years before the movies in which Nick Fury has appeared. Nick Fury does not look 85+ years old. Therefore...

(Even Howard Stark's presence is stretching it a little bit, given that if he's in his twenties in 1940, he would have to be in his fifties by the time Tony was born. But that's at least doable.)

[Fjolnir]

I completely understand it's unrealistic,but the connection still was made in the ultimate's universe as well (Sam Jackson as Fury puts the continuity there, to some degree) as the main continuity...

[Dr.Epic]

@Dr. Horrible: I believe the assumption comes from your avatar; Dr. Horrible is a Whedon project.

What? My avatar is based of a character from Alan Moore's Watchmen: Dr. Epic.

Anyway, anyone else getting in on the groundbreaking abbreviation: CATFA(Captain America: The First Avenger)

[The Glyphstone]

I completely understand it's unrealistic,but the connection still was made in the ultimate's universe as well (Sam Jackson as Fury puts the continuity there, to some degree) as the main continuity...

Not that it being Nick Fury would be terribly unrealistic - Death is just too scared of him to get too close, so he stops aging after a certain point.

[GenericFighter]

I think he's supposed to be Derek Luke, who's the token black member of the Holwin' Commandos in the comics.

The character is Gabe Jones and I don't think he could be considered a 'token' anything as he not only predates any affirmative action-like idea, but also the actual civil rights act.

[Mauve Shirt]

That was a good super hero movie! Not as good as Iron Man, but better than Thor, which was also a good super hero movie!

[Devonix]

Good not great. Overly cheesy in parts and a little too much Slow mo.

All around a fun movie that I'm too tired at the moment to anilize

[veven]

I thought it was awful to be honest and I love Cap more than any other marvel hero.

[Mauve Shirt]

His computer-animated tiny body was very silly-looking. And the Cthulunazis must have had an Indiana Jones checklist, I swear I heard the evil nazi theme from Raiders every time Elrond showed up. And their salute was ridiculous and I laughed every time they did it.

[Devonix]

His computer-animated tiny body was very silly-looking. And the Cthulunazis must have had an Indiana Jones checklist, I swear I heard the evil nazi theme from Raiders every time Elrond showed up. And their salute was ridiculous and I laughed every time they did it.



Yeah the salute was...

[Mauve Shirt]

Our salute is better than the Nazi salute because it's TWO hands and in FISTS!

[Mutant Sheep]

Our salute is better than the Nazi salute because it's TWO hands and in FISTS!

I kept hearing Hail Cobra :smalltongue:. I like the shout-out to Indiana Jones, that was hilarious. Favorite part was him knocking out Hitler 200 times, the montage was perfect.

[Tyrant]

I saw it earlier today and I liked it. A few things with Hydra were a little silly (like the salute). There was more overlap with the info from Thor than I was expecting. I thought there were some decent humor moments in the movie, mostly from Tommy Lee Jones.

Spoiler type comments:
-I liked the way the Red Skull's "death" went down. There is enough room there for him to reappear. I also liked how it got all cosmic looking when he directly interacted with the Cube. I think he got sucked into Asgard or one of the other realms.

-Likewise, Bucky's "death" has plenty of wiggle room to bring him back.

-The timeline of events seems to be loose enough and they gloss over details enough that they could use flashbacks of Cap and the team taking out Hydra facilities to feature other Nazi villains like Baron Zemo and Baron Von Strucker.

[Jayngfet]

His computer-animated tiny body was very silly-looking. And the Cthulunazis must have had an Indiana Jones checklist, I swear I heard the evil nazi theme from Raiders every time Elrond showed up. And their salute was ridiculous and I laughed every time they did it.

Yes, I must concur. Nothing is sillier than being evil via double fist pump.

They tried so hard to be like that too. With their gogo action battle tanks and their pump action supersoaker lasers and their plastic ghost masks they wear for no reason. Red skull even insists on shooting a modified Nazi used gun instead of the guns everyone else has. Somehow though, it worked.


Also, anyone else catch the cameo by golden age Human Torch in the worlds fair?

I suppose that makes The Avengers roster Cap-Tony-Hulk-Thor-War Machine-Hawkeye-Human Torch

[pyrefiend]

I saw it and thought it was pretty darn good. Better than Thor, for sure, and I'm not among those who really hated that movie. The romance was far more believable than the ones in the other recent marvel movies, there was plenty of action, and the characters were mostly likable. Steve himself, especially, was very well acted in my opinion.

And the Avengers preview was awesome.

[Tyrant]

Yes, I must concur. Nothing is sillier than being evil via double fist pump.

They tried so hard to be like that too. With their gogo action battle tanks and their pump action supersoaker lasers and their plastic ghost masks they wear for no reason. Red skull even insists on shooting a modified Nazi used gun instead of the guns everyone else has. Somehow though, it worked.


Also, anyone else catch the cameo by golden age Human Torch in the worlds fair?

I suppose that makes The Avengers roster Cap-Tony-Hulk-Thor-War Machine-Hawkeye-Human Torch

I liked that the Red Skull was using a gun that looked like what I come to expect a Nazi to be using combined with a lazer gun.

As for your spoilered comment,Yeah I saw him there in the tube. I was really hoping he would actually do something though. As far as the Avengers though, shouldn't he be remade into Vision by that point? Although I guess the "real" story for that would require Ultron, which requires Hank Pym. I think his mind was a copy of Wonder Man's too. That's assuming that hasn't all changed since I last read about Vision.

[Velarias]

I enjoyed cap as well it was a rather fun movie. Loved red skulls indiana jones reference(i almost expected his face to melt:smallbiggrin:)

As for the avengers movie:
I worry that the plot might be a little convoluted. Loki apparently summons the skrulls with the cosmic cube and attacks the avengers. I just hope they can tie everything together well. One would hope they would go for a more earthy villain to make it a bit more belivable. Thoughts?

[Jayngfet]

I liked that the Red Skull was using a gun that looked like what I come to expect a Nazi to be using combined with a lazer gun.

As for your spoilered comment,Yeah I saw him there in the tube. I was really hoping he would actually do something though. As far as the Avengers though, shouldn't he be remade into Vision by that point? Although I guess the "real" story for that would require Ultron, which requires Hank Pym. I think his mind was a copy of Wonder Man's too. That's assuming that hasn't all changed since I last read about Vision.



Maybe, there's a fair few robot characters in the Marvel U. There's probably also one or two who may show up in the actual avengers movie.

Updated list:

Tony-Cap-Thor-Hulk-War Machine-Black Widow-Hawkeye-Human Torch

[Dienekes]

As for the avengers movie:
I worry that the plot might be a little convoluted. Loki apparently summons the skrulls with the cosmic cube and attacks the avengers. I just hope they can tie everything together well. One would hope they would go for a more earthy villain to make it a bit more belivable. Thoughts?

Well Loki was the original reason for the creation of the Avengers in the comics so it makes sense to have him be the first villain of the Avengers movie. I'm not sure about the Skrulls admittedly, I somehow seem to have missed them near completely when I was actually in to comics so I have no feel for them as villains.

But as for believability, I think they tossed that aside awhile ago, and good riddance. Believability is fantastic when done with Nolan's Batman series, but when you have power armored drunks and gods fighting together it makes more sense to just sit back and enjoy the show.

[Z3ro]

As for the avengers movie:
I worry that the plot might be a little convoluted. Loki apparently summons the skrulls with the cosmic cube and attacks the avengers. I just hope they can tie everything together well. One would hope they would go for a more earthy villain to make it a bit more belivable. Thoughts?

I disagree totally on the villan part. The Skrulls are the perfect type of villian for the avengers to face. Anything too earthbound seems too small for a super-team to take on. Without lots of powerful mooks, why have you assembled this super-team to take them down? And bringing Loki into it ties in well as to why Thor is there, and just how cosmic the threat is.

My real concern is Joss Whedon directing and writing. I know a lot of people really like him, but I can't stand most of his stuff, and this is the one film I've really been looking forward to. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

[cdstephens]

Great movie, but a question about the ending.

When he's in the plane after defeating Red Skull, he says his only option is to do a nose dive in the ocean. Why couldn't he land somewhere exactly? And why couldn't he turn around?

Also, is Red Skull dead or did he become more powerful than you could possibly imagine?

[TheEmerged]

Great movie, but a question about the ending.

When he's in the plane after defeating Red Skull, he says his only option is to do a nose dive in the ocean. Why couldn't he land somewhere exactly? And why couldn't he turn around?

Because he still has the "nukes" aboard. The movie switched to a readout of which bombs were still onboard when he said that line


Also, is Red Skull dead or did he become more powerful than you could possibly imagine?

Yes :smallyuk:

Saw it today myself. I very much enjoyed it. In the interest of honest reporting, I need to state I'm something of a WW2 buff and the fact the movie was going to be a period piece figured heavily into my anticipation and, likely, my enjoyment of it.

Since I believe we are still within the Spoiler period...



Not sure if this is my fanboi over-analysis but if those other period errors in the "wake up" sequence were intended, my hat's off to the costuming team or whoever was responsible for that decision.
Loved loved loved LOVED the work by the actress for Peggy Carter -- Hayley Atwell, according to imdb. She nailed it. Tommy Lee Jones also nailed his role, and gets credit for the single funniest understated line I've heard in a movie this year.
I have a soft spot for "test" sequences -- the one in Men In Black is one reason I put up with the rest of that movie, for example. I saw the flagpole one coming a mile away. The grenade caught me a touch off-guard I'll admit, although they dragged on it a little bit.
Maybe I've got that American "easy on violence, harsh on sex" dichotomy but I really don't see why this got PG-13.
Yes, I'm enough of a period nut to geek out on the fact that RS's energy weapon looked like a Luger.
Bottom line? Go see this movie.

[Psyren]

Just saw it - MovieBob was right, I can't see how they could have done a Captain America movie any better than this. I can't wait for Avengers next year!! :smallbiggrin:

As for the Avengers - Skrulls make the most sense as a "UBERVILLAIN" that could require such a big assembly of heroes to take it on. Hopefully Super Skrull will show up to give Cap some mano-a-mano action.

[Jayngfet]

Maybe I've got that American "easy on violence, harsh on sex" dichotomy but I really don't see why this got PG-13.

I really think that was a proper observation. Not much in the way of sex, but at the end of the day, this is a movie that is as much about heroism as it is about war. Good people die, bad people die, nobody comes back except maybe Bucky later, but that's going to be a whole nother can of worms altogether. The fact that there isn't much blood doesn't stop the fact that a lot of people died horribly during this movie.

[chiasaur11]

Well, that was excellent.

And so many geek inside jokes. So many. Haven't read the whole thread, so someone maybe caught more, but what I saw, or some of it, ignoring the obvious things:

Original Human Torch. Code 13. Arnim Zola's intro. The shield windshield.

[Vacant]

I saw it and thought it was pretty darn good. Better than Thor, for sure, and I'm not among those who really hated that movie. The romance was far more believable than the ones in the other recent marvel movies, there was plenty of action, and the characters were mostly likable. Steve himself, especially, was very well acted in my opinion.

And the Avengers preview was awesome.

I really liked the Thor romance. The rest of Thor was lackluster, but I actually think they did that relationship well.

EDIT: Arguably, this is because of partial suspension of disbelief allowing me to believe that it was Thor and Natalie Portman, who make perfect sense as a couple, not Thor and her character. He's way better for her than Devendra.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well I just got back from seeing this and thought it was easily as good as the original Iron Man, possible even better. And I'm not even a very big fan of Captain America (probably due to his apparent lack of a '90s cartoon series, which is where I get most of my marvel comics information from). Anyway, it was definitely the best film I've seen so far this year!

[Dienekes]

I really liked the Thor romance. The rest of Thor was lackluster, but I actually think they did that relationship well.

EDIT: Arguably, this is because of partial suspension of disbelief allowing me to believe that it was Thor and Natalie Portman, who make perfect sense as a couple, not Thor and her character. He's way better for her than Devendra.

You see I was the exact opposite. I thought the Asgard world was interesting and what I paid to go see, since it's a Thor movie. the romance I thought they put too much time on.

Anyway going to see this today more like than not. Can't wait.

[Yora]

As someone who really dislikes superhero comics:

What actually happens when Captain America throws his shield?

[Fjolnir]

As someone who really dislikes superhero comics:

What actually happens when Captain America throws his shield?

All those who would oppose his shield must yield. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVU4HURKEXs)

[Erts]

I just hope that Whedon can balance the characters enough, so we don't get this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen_(film))



As for the avengers movie:
I worry that the plot might be a little convoluted. Loki apparently summons the skrulls with the cosmic cube and attacks the avengers. I just hope they can tie everything together well. One would hope they would go for a more earthy villain to make it a bit more belivable. Thoughts?

Pardon me for asking, but where did you find this out? Wikipedia doesn't mention it at all.



My real concern is Joss Whedon directing and writing. I know a lot of people really like him, but I can't stand most of his stuff, and this is the one film I've really been looking forward to. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

I wouldn't worry too much. This is a huge investment by Marvel Studios and they have put way too much money in this for Whedon to have complete creative control. Considering the material, this might not be an entirely negative thing.

[Psyren]

Pardon me for asking, but where did you find this out? Wikipedia doesn't mention it at all.

It's all rumors at the moment, but the current front-runners are either Skrulls (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106436-Rumor-Avengers-Movie-Pits-Earths-Heroes-Against-Warring-Aliens-UPDATED) or Thanos (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.287521-Rumor-Whedon-Sics-Mad-Titan-on-The-Avengers).

[chiasaur11]

As someone who really dislikes superhero comics:

What actually happens when Captain America throws his shield?

Nazis get their faces smashed in.

Doors get wedged open.

You know. The good stuff.

[SnowballMan]

As someone who really dislikes superhero comics:

What actually happens when Captain America throws his shield?

He uses it as a long range weapon. Presumably, because of his strength and the properties of the metal of the shield, he can bounce it off of several surfaces in a single throw. He develops a fighting style that allows him to hit several targets in such a way that the shield comes back to him. Sorta like playing pool with a frisbee.


All those who would oppose his shield must yield. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVU4HURKEXs)

ARGH!!!! The animation... It BURNS!!!

[Traab]

He uses it as a long range weapon. Presumably, because of his strength and the properties of the metal of the shield, he can bounce it off of several surfaces in a single throw. He develops a fighting style that allows him to hit several targets in such a way that the shield comes back to him. Sorta like playing pool with a frisbee.



ARGH!!!! The animation... It BURNS!!!

The bouncing shield thing never made sense to me. Its simple physics. Every time that shield bounces off of something it is losing momentum and force. To be thrown hard enough to bounce off three walls and still knock some bad guy out AND be able to fly back to his hands would require so much initial force that it would punch through the first wall it was aimed at. It would carve through it like a buzz saw.

[chiasaur11]

The bouncing shield thing never made sense to me. Its simple physics. Every time that shield bounces off of something it is losing momentum and force. To be thrown hard enough to bounce off three walls and still knock some bad guy out AND be able to fly back to his hands would require so much initial force that it would punch through the first wall it was aimed at. It would carve through it like a buzz saw.

Vibranium.

Also, briefly, transistors but mainly vibranium.

[Devonix]

Vibranium Adamantium alloy which ignores physics and makes up its own. It actually increases in force per hit most times.

[Psyren]

The bouncing shield thing never made sense to me. Its simple physics. Every time that shield bounces off of something it is losing momentum and force. To be thrown hard enough to bounce off three walls and still knock some bad guy out AND be able to fly back to his hands would require so much initial force that it would punch through the first wall it was aimed at. It would carve through it like a buzz saw.

You are now attempting to apply physics to a fictional metal thrown by a man enhanced with a fictional serum.

Just pointing that out.

[Devonix]

speaking of Vibranium anyone think we'll get a Black Panther movie in time for the inevitable Avengers sequel hell they could tie it in with the Captain America sequel the're obviously going to make

[Psyren]

speaking of Vibranium anyone think we'll get a Black Panther movie in time for the inevitable Avengers sequel hell they could tie it in with the Captain America sequel the're obviously going to make

I'm not sure a black hero named Black Panther would make it through the Hollywood approvals process, let alone Disney's.

[Erts]

speaking of Vibranium anyone think we'll get a Black Panther movie in time for the inevitable Avengers sequel hell they could tie it in with the Captain America sequel the're obviously going to make

No, that's not on the schedule. It could be done very well though.

Edit:

I'm not sure a black hero named Black Panther would make it through the Hollywood approvals process, let alone Disney's.
Sad, but true.

[SnowballMan]

You are now attempting to apply physics to a fictional metal thrown by a man enhanced with a fictional serum.
In a world where a billionaire playboy can make a new element that functions as a power source as well as purging the toxins from his body.

(Incidentally, did anyone else get the impression that Howard Stark got the idea for that from the cube?)


I'm not sure a black hero named Black Panther would make it through the Hollywood approvals process, let alone Disney's.
We could change the name to Chromatically-Challenged Panther. Think it would fly then? (I'm still trying to figure out how a king has time to tool around as a superhero.)

[Traab]

We could change the name to Chromatically-Challenged Panther. Think it would fly then? (I'm still trying to figure out how a king has time to tool around as a superhero.)

Black Jaguar maybe? As for how he finds the time, hes the effing KING! Who is going to tell him he cant go out and fight crime?

[kpenguin]

Black Panther manages to be a main cast member and retain his name on Avengers: EMH, which airs on Disney XD...

[Psyren]

We could change the name to Chromatically-Challenged Panther. Think it would fly then? (I'm still trying to figure out how a king has time to tool around as a superhero.)

If billionaires and gods can find the time... :smalltongue:


Black Panther manages to be a main cast member and retain his name on Avengers: EMH, which airs on Disney XD...

That doesn't have nearly the exposure a movie would, and the controversy mill would begin a-spinning.

[Traab]

If billionaires and gods can find the time... :smalltongue:



That doesn't have nearly the exposure a movie would, and the controversy mill would begin a-spinning.

Pfft, controversy-shmontroversy. If people actually have a problem with the name Black Panther, they should have said something 30 years ago when the character was made. Or however long he has existed in comic book land. At this stage of the game, its a little late to get all butt hurt over a super hero name. Its like the people who wanted to change the name of The Two Towers, because they felt it was insensitive to americas tragedy. Ignoring the fact that the book was titled that since before osama was born.

[Psyren]

I'm just predicting a likely reaction; I don't agree with it.

You have to understand that such a movie would be the first time many, many people would even know there's a marvel character called "Black Panther" at all. So they didn't really have "30 years to object" when you think about it that way.

[Traab]

I'm just predicting a likely reaction; I don't agree with it.

You have to understand that such a movie would be the first time many, many people would even know there's a marvel character called "Black Panther" at all. So they didn't really have "30 years to object" when you think about it that way.

True but that would be the likely response. "Black Panther has been a member of the Marvel Pantheon for 45 years now, in fact, he was created before the militant organization of the same name first appeared. As such, there is no reasonable excuse for trying to stir up controversy whatsoever."

BTW, I checked on wiki and this is what it said, "Following his debut in Fantastic Four #52-53 (July-Aug. 1966)" So yeah, 45 YEARS the black panther has been around.

[chiasaur11]

Pfft, controversy-shmontroversy. If people actually have a problem with the name Black Panther, they should have said something 30 years ago when the character was made. Or however long he has existed in comic book land. At this stage of the game, its a little late to get all butt hurt over a super hero name. Its like the people who wanted to change the name of The Two Towers, because they felt it was insensitive to americas tragedy. Ignoring the fact that the book was titled that since before osama was born.

Character predated the political movement.

And the name was briefly changed at the height of the movement. Then changed back because that was kind of stupid.

Pretty interesting character, considering the time. Presented as one of the only people Reed Richards could count as an equal and one of the best hand to hand combatants. You know, no sidekick stuff, just "Hey, you know how some of our guys are really competent? So's this guy."

And he ran the most technologically advanced nation on the planet like it wasn't a big thing.

Rather progressive, for the era.

[Erts]

I think that most of this should go in a new thread. Anyone else? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11488157#post11488157)

[TheEmerged]

RE: Black Panther/Jaguar. I can't find the reference right now, but I think that WAS one of the iterations of his name at one point.

[Psyren]

Bringing the thread back to Cap, I had a question: How on earth did they make Chris Evans so skinny?

[Mauve Shirt]

Bringing the thread back to Cap, I had a question: How on earth did they make Chris Evans so skinny?

They shopped his head onto someone else's body. It was painfully obvious in some scenes.

[chiasaur11]

They shopped his head onto someone else's body. It was painfully obvious in some scenes.

That's what I thought, but apparently it was pure CG body editing.

Which is kinda impressive.

[Psyren]

They shopped his head onto someone else's body. It was painfully obvious in some scenes.

I don't think so... I read something like CGI body reduction, coupled with Chris losing a lot of weight, but I can't remember where.


Also, high-angle camera shots (The opposite of what they do to make Tom Cruise look tall, lol)

[chiasaur11]

I don't think so... I read something like CGI body reduction, coupled with Chris losing a lot of weight, but I can't remember where.


Apparently just the CG.

He gained 15 pounds of muscle during filming.

[Reverent-One]

That was amazing. As good as Iron Man, just done excellently overall. And the stuff after the credits? It has me so excited for the Avengers. Why is it not 2012 yet?

[pyrefiend]

For a brief, horrifying moment, I thought the entire after-credits scene was going to be just comprised of Nick Fury talking to cap. Then the actual preview started and the whole theater went crazy.... maybe it's cheesy, but I thought "some assembly required" was damn clever.

I can't find a video anywhere (big surprise) but did anyone else think they saw someone who might have been Madame Hydra, minus the green hair? There was some sort of female villain in there who was wearing something hydra-ish.

And I would be very surprised if the Avengers movie included any villains other than Loki and Hydra. There are so many moving pieces in that movie already, they can't really want to bog it down with an alien invasion or cosmic death god thing.

[Mauve Shirt]

That's what I thought, but apparently it was pure CG body editing.

Which is kinda impressive.

Wow, that is rather impressive. It still looked tremendously fake in many scenes, but CGI does that.

[Vacant]

You see I was the exact opposite. I thought the Asgard world was interesting and what I paid to go see, since it's a Thor movie. the romance I thought they put too much time on.

Anyway going to see this today more like than not. Can't wait.

I paid to go see a documentary about Natalie Portman falling for a Norse god, and I got exactly what I thought I paid for. :smalltongue:

[Reverent-One]

Wow, that is rather impressive. It still looked tremendously fake in many scenes, but CGI does that.

Huh, I didn't think it really looked fake at all, actually.

[Velaryon]

Thank you for telling me something me and everyone else has known for like 4-5 years now.

What I meant was is there going to be a sequel based solely around Captain America since Iron Man and Thor both seem to be getting their own sequels that's not the Avengers.

For what it's worth, the movie's Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America:_The_First_Avenger) says that Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan are both signed for five or six-picture deals. That suggests they're at least leaving open the possibility.




In the trailer when he holds up the Shield and the spunky girl spy shoots it to show how tough it is, did anybody else have to repress the desire to yell " What about the richochets you idiot "

I believe that's explained by the properties of vibranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium#Properties_and_known_abilities), of which his shield is made. Basically, the shield absorbs all the kinetic energy of the bullets striking it, so rather than ricocheting they fall to the ground uselessly.


The bouncing shield thing never made sense to me. Its simple physics. Every time that shield bounces off of something it is losing momentum and force. To be thrown hard enough to bounce off three walls and still knock some bad guy out AND be able to fly back to his hands would require so much initial force that it would punch through the first wall it was aimed at. It would carve through it like a buzz saw.

Also explained by the properties of vibranium.

[Traab]

The Wakandan isotope possesses the ability to absorb all vibrations in the vicinity as well as kinetic energy directed at it

That implies that it would hit the wall and fall straight down, not bounce off without losing any momentum. It would absorb all kinetic energy being transferred into the shield to push it off that wall.

[Giggling Ghast]

Captain America's shield is not composed solely of vibranium. It's a mixture of an experimental iron alloy and vibranium, plus an additional catalyst that no one was able to duplicate. (Hence the reason that Cap's shield is one-of-a-kind.) Somehow this allows the shield to absorb kinetic energy and maintain its momentum when thrown despite bouncing off multiple objects.

It's comic book science. Don't think about it too hard.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

maybe it's cheesy, but I thought "some assembly required" was damn clever.


Also happens to be the title of a Buffy episode, which I thought was a little tacky for Joss to do that. Or maybe it's just fanservice.

[Muz]

Also happens to be the title of a Buffy episode, which I thought was a little tacky for Joss to do that. Or maybe it's just fanservice.

I figure "some assembly required" is a ubiquitous enough phrase that its usage can't be said to be self-referential or fanservice. Like how Dawn of the Dead isn't a reference to Return of the Jedi (or vice-versa, whichever came first--I'm too lazy to look it up).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Just saw the movie over the weekend and I must say, it met my expectations and more.

I thought the "Captain America Show" was funny and an excellent way to create the idea of the costume. Why does Captain America dress in ridiculously loud colors and not camouflage like a real soldier? Because it's based on the costume he wore when he was advertising war bonds and that helped him create a distinctive look.
Plus, my face lit up when I saw Hugo Weaving for the first time. I had no idea he was going to be the bad guy until the movie started.

[Traab]

Just saw the movie over the weekend and I must say, it met my expectations and more.

I thought the "Captain America Show" was funny and an excellent way to create the idea of the costume. Why does Captain America dress in ridiculously loud colors and not camouflage like a real soldier? Because it's based on the costume he wore when he was advertising war bonds and that helped him create a distinctive look.
Plus, my face lit up when I saw Hugo Weaving for the first time. I had no idea he was going to be the bad guy until the movie started.

Oh my god! Hugo Weaving played HITLER?! lol sorry, I had to say it.

[Psyren]

Also happens to be the title of a Buffy episode, which I thought was a little tacky for Joss to do that. Or maybe it's just fanservice.

"Some assembly required" was a well known saying long before Buffy. It was and is a staple on large children's toys like swing sets and water slides that were sold in a compact package but had to be put together by the parents after purchase. More recently, it's been associated with IKEA and their "build-it-yourself" furniture; this use also predates Buffy.

Obviously, its use here is a subtle way of invoking the famous catchphrase "Avengers Assemble." There aren't that many pithy, instantly-recognizable sayings with "assemble" in them after all.



Plus, my face lit up when I saw Hugo Weaving for the first time. I had no idea he was going to be the bad guy until the movie started.

Yeah that definitely had me crowing in the theater too! (Quietly, of course.)

My friend turned to me and said "Isn't that Agent Smith?" I was ecstatic.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

"Some assembly required" was a well known saying long before Buffy. It was and is a staple on large children's toys like swing sets and water slides that were sold in a compact package but had to be put together by the parents after purchase. More recently, it's been associated with IKEA and their "build-it-yourself" furniture; this use also predates Buffy.


I always saw it as a play on the phrase "No Assembly Required" which seems to be much more common in children's toys. I don't think I've ever seen anything that says "some" assembly required (though, to be honest, I haven't really spent much time looking). If that's the case, then the phrase is a twist on a popular saying, something that is not that common. It's like if someone were "they're dropping like mosquitoes." While that's clearly in reference to a popular saying, it is distinct enough that if the same author were to use the phrase again, it would be logical to assume that it was self-referential.

[Psyren]

I always saw it as a play on the phrase "No Assembly Required" which seems to be much more common in children's toys. I don't think I've ever seen anything that says "some" assembly required (though, to be honest, I haven't really spent much time looking). If that's the case, then the phrase is a twist on a popular saying, something that is not that common. It's like if someone were "they're dropping like mosquitoes." While that's clearly in reference to a popular saying, it is distinct enough that if the same author were to use the phrase again, it would be logical to assume that it was self-referential.

"Some assembly required" is much more common, because the box art generally shows the thing fully assembled (complete with laughing children) and they need to clarify that's not what you're going to see when you crack it open due to truth in advertising.

It's rather like "Serving Suggestion" on cereal whenever they add crap that isn't in the box like fresh fruit.

The fact that this phrase is on *everything* IKEA sells, means it's going to leap out at people way more than "No assembly required* (which I've never even seen, personally.) Who hasn't, or doesn't know someone who has, shopped at IKEA?

[Kindablue]

I saw it last night and liked it. Don't have much else to say that hasn't been said except possibly that
I thought the brick joke with the knife was clever.

[Mutant Sheep]

All those who would oppose his shield must yield. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVU4HURKEXs)

:smalltongue: :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue: :smalltongue: :smalltongue::smalltongue: :smalltongue: :smalltongue: :smalltongue: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Oh my god! Hugo Weaving played HITLER?! lol sorry, I had to say it.
:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue: :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue: You two win internetz.I was pressed for time and left the theater during the credits, any links to the post-credit scene please?

[Erloas]

I always saw it as a play on the phrase "No Assembly Required" which seems to be much more common in children's toys. I don't think I've ever seen anything that says "some" assembly required (though, to be honest, I haven't really spent much time looking).
The "No Assembly Required" on kids toys is a direct result of the "Some Assembly Required" to let you know that unlike many other toys you aren't going to be spending 4 hours putting this thing together for your kid while they are yelling at you and wanting to use it. The some assembly required bit was the staple of many comedy shows and comedians that had children for at least most of the 80s and 90s. Some father staying up until 5 AM trying to figure out how to put some Christmas toy together for his kids and usually mangling it in the process.

[Dienekes]

Alright saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Up there with Iron Man really.

However there were a few headscratching moments:

How terrible was Colonel Tommy Lee Jones reconnaissance that they couldn't see the veritable army that Cap was leading to him? They had a tank, and were taking the main road.
What if Cap wasn't expecting you to shoot at him Miss British Lady? You would have killed him. I know, he kissed a girl, but really you two weren't even dating yet, or ever.
His reaction to being re-awoken was great. Really want to see how they handle him being misplaced like this in Avengers and Captain America 2.

[Mutant Sheep]

Alright saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Up there with Iron Man really.

However there were a few headscratching moments:

How terrible was Colonel Tommy Lee Jones reconnaissance that they couldn't see the veritable army that Cap was leading to him? They had a tank, and were taking the main road.
What if Cap wasn't expecting you to shoot at him Miss British Lady? You would have killed him. I know, he kissed a girl, but really you two weren't even dating yet, or ever.
His reaction to being re-awoken was great. Really want to see how they handle him being misplaced like this in Avengers and Captain America 2.

Well they needed the "Old Colonel Badass gets showed up by the pure good guy" trope to fit in somewhere.:smalltongue: Also, shes a woman. Who is British. And pissed off. Terrible combo to be on the wrong side of when there are guns involved. Last one is a headscratcher because you thought it was great???

[chiasaur11]

Alright saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Up there with Iron Man really.

However there were a few headscratching moments:

What if Cap wasn't expecting you to shoot at him Miss British Lady? You would have killed him. I know, he kissed a girl, but really you two weren't even dating yet, or ever.


Well, super soldier. Even if he wasn't expecting it, he has the reflexes to move the shield into the path of the bullet.

[Dr.Epic]

Saw it today and loved it. Not much else to say about it. If you haven't seen it, go out now and see it. You will not be disappointed.

[Psyren]

Well they needed the "Old Colonel Badass gets showed up by the pure good guy" trope to fit in somewhere.:smalltongue:

Note that they fit this in several places, not just there: the leaping on the grenade scene for instance.

[Dr.Epic]

Did anyone else have the song Star-Spangled Man stuck in their head for the rest of the day after seeing this?

Captain America: the Goddamn Star-Spangled Man with a Plan!!!

Still great film. Unfortunately I saw it in 3D. The only good scene with the 3D was one with Cap' hurling his shield at the camera.

Also...
...while I did see the death of the main scientist coming because I knew Captain America's origin, I did not see Bucky's death coming. Seriously, after he was rescued I honestly thought they wouldn't do the best friend dies trope. I was on the edge of my seat with the train scene. Congrats movie: you made me feel sad for the death of a character named Bucky. I never thought that'd be possible.

I also hope there's some banter between Stark and Rogers in the Avengers like this:

Stark: You knew my father?
Rogers: Yeah. Say, did he ever perfect his flying car?
Stark: No, but I made a flying suit of super-armor.
Rogers: But not a car?
Stark:...moving on.

[Reverent-One]

Also...
...while I did see the death of the main scientist coming because I knew Captain America's origin, I did not see Bucky's death coming. Seriously, after he was rescued I honestly thought they wouldn't do the best friend dies trope. I was on the edge of my seat with the train scene. Congrats movie: you made me feel sad for the death of a character named Bucky. I never thought that'd be possible.


You knew about Cap's origin, but not the fate of Bucky? How'd that happen? :smallconfused:

[Dr.Epic]

You knew about Cap's origin, but not the fate of Bucky? How'd that happen? :smallconfused:

I once saw a documentary about the history of comics and superheroes and Stan Lee explained the influence of Captain America, Superman and other comic book heroes during World War II and briefly went over Cap's backstory. Bucky was never mentioned though.

Speaking of Stan Lee, his cameo was amusing. It wasn't as good as in Thor or Iron Man, but still good. I was wondering if he'd be in the film. I mean, I don't think he created Cap', though he is like the biggest figure at Marvel.

[Psyren]

I think Stan the Man cameos in all of them.

Given where Bucky fell, it's possible that thread could be revisited. Though I personally hope they don't.

[Dr.Epic]

Oh wait, Bucky. I just remembered him being mentioned in something I watched as like Captain America's sidekick. Wasn't he a child? Maybe that's why I didn't realize who he was. Also, I don't recall hearing he died in the comics.

[chiasaur11]

Oh wait, Bucky. I just remembered him being mentioned in something I watched as like Captain America's sidekick. Wasn't he a child? Maybe that's why I didn't realize who he was. Also, I don't recall hearing he died in the comics.

He was and did.

It was all he did from 1960-200X.

Then he came back.

And recently he died again.

[Dr.Epic]

He was and did.

It was all he did from 1960-200X.

Then he came back.

And recently he died again.


Still, I didn't realize the connection because how I heard about him I heard he was a kid like Robin. I wasn't expecting a guy who at the start of the film was far tougher than Steve Rogers.

[Reverent-One]

Still, I didn't realize the connection because how I heard about him I heard he was a kid like Robin. I wasn't expecting a guy who at the start of the film was far tougher than Steve Rogers.

Ah, that makes sense. Though I must admit I liked this change, a kid sidekick would be hard to seriously nowadays.

[Psyren]

Ah, that makes sense. Though I must admit I liked this change, a kid sidekick would be hard to seriously nowadays.

Hell, if anything STEVE was the kid sidekick initially! :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

Hell, if anything STEVE was the kid sidekick initially! :smallbiggrin:

Exactly.

Also...
The thing at the end with Cap' being in the fake hospital room in the 21st century meant to look like the 40s: anyone else find it odd they picked a radio broadcast of a baseball game done before Rogers was frozen? I get why they did it, but realistically why? Why not pick a game after he went missing so you know there's an absolute 0 chance he heard it?

[Traab]

Exactly.

Also...
The thing at the end with Cap' being in the fake hospital room in the 21st century meant to look like the 40s: anyone else find it odd they picked a radio broadcast of a baseball game done before Rogers was frozen? I get why they did it, but realistically why? Why not pick a game after he went missing so you know there's an absolute 0 chance he heard it?

Perhaps they were making sure to show us it was fake as many ways as possible? Like they really wanted to illustrate the fact that they were attempting to make him think he hadnt been frozen for 60 years so they included as many one off from kosher elements as they could fit?

[Dr.Epic]

Perhaps they were making sure to show us it was fake as many ways as possible? Like they really wanted to illustrate the fact that they were attempting to make him think he hadnt been frozen for 60 years so they included as many one off from kosher elements as they could fit?

:smallconfused:Then why pick something he could have potentially heard? Why not get a radio broadcast from a little later of the year he was frozen? He wouldn't have heard it. By picking something from before he was frozen, there was a chance he could have realized it was fake. Why not make sure there's no chance he'd detect something was off?

[Cog]

Re: baseball game
I took it as another test; they gave the guy plenty of those before, and 70 years later, it's time to see if he's still in good form. Is he the same wily guy that dropped the flagpole, or is he going to meekly sit by when things are wrong around him?

[Temotei]

In the trailer when he holds up the Shield and the spunky girl spy shoots it to show how tough it is, did anybody else have to repress the desire to yell " What about the richochets you idiot "

I asked why they had loaded guns sitting on the table.

[Corvus]

Just got back from seeing it - a good movie but I think I preferred Thor more. Looking forward to The Avengers.

I did like how they incorporated actual Nazi designs that never saw the light of day in the movie - notably the FW Triebflugel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel) and the Ho. XVIII Flying Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_XVIII).

[Friv]

How terrible was Colonel Tommy Lee Jones reconnaissance that they couldn't see the veritable army that Cap was leading to him? They had a tank, and were taking the main road.

That was pretty funny.

What if Cap wasn't expecting you to shoot at him Miss British Lady? You would have killed him. I know, he kissed a girl, but really you two weren't even dating yet, or ever.

Well, this one I can defend...
Penny Carter had already been established as a super-crack shot during the earlier assassination attempt. Assuming that she was aiming at the shield, she was going to hit the shield.

And I was also worried about richochet in the trailer. The movie explained it well, though. :)

[Psyren]

Well, this one I can defend...
Penny Carter had already been established as a super-crack shot during the earlier assassination attempt. Assuming that she was aiming at the shield, she was going to hit the shield.

I have to agree; holy crap she was a good shot. Hawkeye's grandmother? 0_o

[Lost Demiurge]

:smallconfused:Then why pick something he could have potentially heard? Why not get a radio broadcast from a little later of the year he was frozen? He wouldn't have heard it. By picking something from before he was frozen, there was a chance he could have realized it was fake. Why not make sure there's no chance he'd detect something was off?

I think that it's due to a mistake. Shield needed something for authenticity, and the guy that was assigned to it found an old-timey ballgame, and settled for that. They had no way of knowing it was one that Cap had attended, and even if they listened to it all the way through beforehand, how could they tell it wouldn't work?

SHIELD isn't perfect. They make mistakes too.

[Tyndmyr]

I asked why they had loaded guns sitting on the table.

Eh, it's WW2. Loaded guns lying around a mad science lab in that era would probably be considered entirely normal.

[Psyren]

I think that it's due to a mistake. Shield needed something for authenticity, and the guy that was assigned to it found an old-timey ballgame, and settled for that. They had no way of knowing it was one that Cap had attended, and even if they listened to it all the way through beforehand, how could they tell it wouldn't work?

SHIELD isn't perfect. They make mistakes too.

Hell, it could have been an intern for all we know :smalltongue:

[WalkingTarget]

Not sure if this is my fanboi over-analysis but if those other period errors in the "wake up" sequence were intended, my hat's off to the costuming team or whoever was responsible for that decision.


What were the other errors? I'm not enough of an expert in the period to be able to spot them.

[Ditto]

In re: Bucky. His story was part of the reason you had a bunch of stand-alone heroes without sidekicks in Marvel. There used to be a saying:
Nobody stays dead in comics except Bucky, Jason Todd, and Uncle Ben.
And then Bucky came back as Winter Soldier. And based on the set-up in this movie, could again, though I doubt they'd bother introducing it with The Avengers. But at least he didn't technically die, right?
And then Jason Todd came back as Red Hood. He was legit DEAD and they reanimated him...
And then Uncle Ben came back. Okay, it was an alternate universe Uncle Ben so technically Peter Parker's Uncle Ben has never been brought back. But he is the LAST idiomatically perma-dead character...
Nothing's sacred in comics. :smallbiggrin:

[TheEmerged]

What were the other errors? I'm not enough of an expert in the period to be able to spot them.

Been a week, I forget most of the specifics but it was there was a sense that SHIELD was doing the "cobble together everything within 10 years and call in the same period" thing. The one detail I remember is that the actress in the scene didn't quite have as "correct" of a look as Ms. Carter did.

[Dr.Epic]

Re: baseball game
I took it as another test; they gave the guy plenty of those before, and 70 years later, it's time to see if he's still in good form. Is he the same wily guy that dropped the flagpole, or is he going to meekly sit by when things are wrong around him?

But...
...Nick Fury states they wanted to ease him into the realization it's 70 years later. This clashes with what he said.

[TheEmerged]

But...
...Nick Fury states they wanted to ease him into the realization it's 70 years later. This clashes with what he said.

/humor on
/humor=11

The leader of a group of secret agents/spies *lied* ? Perish the thought!

:smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

/humor on
/humor=11

The leader of a group of secret agents/spies *lied* ? Perish the thought!

:smallbiggrin:

Yes, pointlessly lied. Why? Why not just tell him it was a test?

[BRC]

Yes, pointlessly lied. Why? Why not just tell him it was a test?


I don't think it was a test, there would be plenty of time for those later. I think it was just as Nick Fury said, they wanted him to wake up in surroundings he would find comfortable and familiar. It was just their bad luck that they happened to pick a baseball game he had attended, tipping him off that something was wrong.

[Dr.Epic]

I don't think it was a test, there would be plenty of time for those later. I think it was just as Nick Fury said, they wanted him to wake up in surroundings he would find comfortable and familiar. It was just their bad luck that they happened to pick a baseball game he had attended, tipping him off that something was wrong.

Yes, that's what I've been saying.

[thorgrim29]

Saw the movie yesterday, it was great, but we had a lot of difficulty taking Hydra seriously, what with the salute, the uniforms, the Firebats, the Marauders, the Rhinos, and the Land Raiders. Oh and also that the scene before Cap attacks looks suspiciously like the Major talking to the Letze Battalion in Hellsing.

[JadedDM]

I saw the movie Wednesday, so I found it rather disappointing. Not bad, exactly, just extremely...generic. There were so many massive cliches, at times I couldn't tell if they were being played straight or meant as some kind of parody.

I found many of the action scenes so over-the-top to be ridiculous, the romance sub-arc between Cap and Peggy was weak and uninteresting. (And the 'conflict' that was put between them when Peggy accidentally walked in on Cap in a situation that was pushed upon him, causing a misunderstanding, was like something out of a badly written romantic comedy--except it served no purpose whatsoever that I could see other than to give Peggy a reason to shoot Cap's shield moments later).

The characters didn't really seem to be characters, or even archetypes...just...roles. You had hero, and villain, and love interest, and best friend. At least they had names, though. Cap's friends, if they were given names at all I missed them, included such folks as British Guy, Black Guy, Mustache Guy, French Guy and Japanese Guy. (I'm sure they probably have names in the comics, but I never read them.)

The only times in this movie I wasn't looking at my watch was when Tommy Lee Jones was on screen. Too bad he was barely in this movie. He, and perhaps to a lesser extent, Stark, were the only people in this movie who weren't completely bland.

As Marvel movies go, I have to rank this one on the bottom, even lower than Iron Man 2:

Iron Man
Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2
Captain America

[Dr.Epic]

I saw the movie Wednesday, so I found it rather disappointing. Not bad, exactly, just extremely...generic. There were so many massive cliches, at times I couldn't tell if they were being played straight or meant as some kind of parody.

Okay, name some.


I found many of the action scenes so over-the-top to be ridiculous

What? A film based on a comic from the 1940s about a supersoldier/superhero that looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Captainamerica1.jpg

...and fights a guy who has a powerful magical cube created by the Norse gods and who happens that looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Capa038.jpg

...has over the top moments? What were those writers and directors trying to do? Make a fun movie? Those monsters!


the romance sub-arc between Cap and Peggy was weak and uninteresting. (And the 'conflict' that was put between them when Peggy accidentally walked in on Cap in a situation that was pushed upon him, causing a misunderstanding, was like something out of a badly written romantic comedy--except it served no purpose whatsoever that I could see other than to give Peggy a reason to shoot Cap's shield moments later).

They didn't really have time to build the love subplot. Considering Cap' had to get frozen, they couldn't. Not to mention, Peggy has to be one of the best love interests in any superhero movie. She's badass, starts out more intimidating that Steve Rogers and most of the soldiers and doesn't get subjected to the damsel in distress cliche.


The characters didn't really seem to be characters, or even archetypes...just...roles. You had hero, and villain, and love interest, and best friend. At least they had names, though. Cap's friends, if they were given names at all I missed them, included such folks as British Guy, Black Guy, Mustache Guy, French Guy and Japanese Guy. (I'm sure they probably have names in the comics, but I never read them.)

Yeah. This film had no characters...except the MASSIVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT Steve Rogers got in the first half of the film about him wanting to serve his country but even when he's capable still isn't in the battlefield. And let's not forget how badass Peggy was, especially for a woman of the 1940s. And Hugo Weaving as Red Skull: he's the only actor who's face is more intimidating when it's not a red skull.


As Marvel movies go, I have to rank this one on the bottom, even lower than Iron Man 2:

Iron Man
Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2
Captain America

Okay, now you're not even thinking clearly.

[Psyren]

As Marvel movies go, I have to rank this one on the bottom, even lower than Iron Man 2:

Iron Man
Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2
Captain America

I respect your right to have a different taste in movies, even as I am fervently glad I do not share it :smalltongue:

[JadedDM]

So it is known, before anyone reads any further, to properly address Dr. Epic's post, I may need to make some minor spoilers. Nothing heavy, but be forewarned anyway.


Okay, name some.

There was one scene in particular that sticks in my mind, where Captain America is fighting off a bunch of faceless mooks (mostly in slow motion). The mooks had guns but only faced Cap one at a time. Some even aimed their guns at him, but would politely wait until he turned to face them and raise his shield before firing.

There was another scene where he was riding a motorcycle and stuck his shield on the front of said cycle. Although the shield was not nearly big enough to cover the motorcycle or Cap, all of the enemy shots that didn't miss entirely hit the shield only. It was like they were aiming for it.

A third scene, where Cap is sneaking into an enemy base. He regularly clobbers enemies and then drags them away, even while faceless mooks are no more than five feet away. They don't hear it, nor do they ever notice the guy who was standing guard suddenly abandoned his post. He runs around the base with the shield on his back (bright red, white and blue) making him stand out even when he's hiding in shadows, but still nobody notices him. The best part was when he walks up to a door with a window on it. He looks through the window and waves at the guard. Rather that raising the alarm, the faceless mook opens the door for Cap, who proceeds to clobber him. I started to feel I was watching someone play Metal Gear Solid at this point.


...has over the top moments? What were those writers and directors trying to do? Make a fun movie? Those monsters!

Did I unintentionally push some buttons there? Over the top does not automatically equal fun. It depends on the writing. One could argue Thor, a movie about a god who is banished to Earth for being too arrogant, then learns modesty and regains his powers while falling in love with an astrophysicist is over the top, but the writing was good enough to let me enjoy that film.


They didn't really have time to build the love subplot.

Part of the problem. It felt like they tried to cram too much in this movie at once. That is part of what leads to the generic feel it had to me, I think. Nothing really stood out to me, because it was all packed in so tightly as to have no room for anything really all that interesting.


Not to mention, Peggy has to be one of the best love interests in any superhero movie. She's badass, starts out more intimidating that Steve Rogers and most of the soldiers and doesn't get subjected to the damsel in distress cliche.

Ehh, I agree that she didn't fall victim to the damsel in distress cliche, and I do applaud that. But she wasn't interesting at all. She was "Strong, Tough Woman" but that's all there was to her. Seriously, can you describe her as a character at all beyond "Strong, Tough Woman?" She didn't feel like a fully developed person to me at all, but more of a walking cliche.


Yeah. This film had no characters...except the MASSIVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT Steve Rogers got in the first half of the film about him wanting to serve his country but even when he's capable still isn't in the battlefield. And let's not forget how badass Peggy was, especially for a woman of the 1940s. And Hugo Weaving as Red Skull: he's the only actor who's face is more intimidating when it's not a red skull.

Are we using different definitions of character development? To clarify then, by 'character development' I mean that the characters developed on some level. That they changed, they grew.

Steve Rogers was determined, refused to give up, and hated bullies. What has changed by the end of the movie? He got muscles and super-powers, but personality wise, he's the same.

Peggy was Tough, Strong Woman when they introduced her, she was Tough, Strong Woman at the end. Randomly putting her in a red dress for one scene for no apparent reason isn't character development.

And do please explain to me Red Skull's development. How did he grow, change? For that matter, what was his motivation? Blow everyone up because we're too war-like? Was that...was that meant to be ironic or not? Again, I could never tell when the writers were trying to parody something or just didn't think things through.


Okay, now you're not even thinking clearly.

Quite the contrary. I can assure you, my opinion differing from your own is in no way an indication that there is something wrong with my mental faculties.

[Dienekes]

Ehh, I agree that she didn't fall victim to the damsel in distress cliche, and I do applaud that. But she wasn't interesting at all. She was "Strong, Tough Woman" but that's all there was to her. Seriously, can you describe her as a character at all beyond "Strong, Tough Woman?" She didn't feel like a fully developed person to me at all, but more of a walking cliche.

In fairness I couldn't describe Natalie Portman's character in Thor as anything other than "woman" or maybe "woman portrayed by Natalie Portman." Though I'm not in this for the tacked on romance plot that all these movies seem to have forced on them. Even noble nonsexual Sherlock was saddled with one.

[Dr.Epic]

There was one scene in particular that sticks in my mind, where Captain America is fighting off a bunch of faceless mooks (mostly in slow motion). The mooks had guns but only faced Cap one at a time. Some even aimed their guns at him, but would politely wait until he turned to face them and raise his shield before firing.

There was another scene where he was riding a motorcycle and stuck his shield on the front of said cycle. Although the shield was not nearly big enough to cover the motorcycle or Cap, all of the enemy shots that didn't miss entirely hit the shield only. It was like they were aiming for it.

A third scene, where Cap is sneaking into an enemy base. He regularly clobbers enemies and then drags them away, even while faceless mooks are no more than five feet away. They don't hear it, nor do they ever notice the guy who was standing guard suddenly abandoned his post. He runs around the base with the shield on his back (bright red, white and blue) making him stand out even when he's hiding in shadows, but still nobody notices him. The best part was when he walks up to a door with a window on it. He looks through the window and waves at the guard. Rather that raising the alarm, the faceless mook opens the door for Cap, who proceeds to clobber him. I started to feel I was watching someone play Metal Gear Solid at this point.

Okay, three instances. Out of a two hour film, that's not so bad. Really, can you name some good (action) films that don't have some cliches?


Did I unintentionally push some buttons there? Over the top does not automatically equal fun. It depends on the writing. One could argue Thor, a movie about a god who is banished to Earth for being too arrogant, then learns modesty and regains his powers while falling in love with an astrophysicist is over the top, but the writing was good enough to let me enjoy that film.

And this was good. It was a classic story about an underdog hero rising up and defeating an evil empire.


Part of the problem. It felt like they tried to cram too much in this movie at once. That is part of what leads to the generic feel it had to me, I think. Nothing really stood out to me, because it was all packed in so tightly as to have no room for anything really all that interesting.

The romantic subplot was that important to the main story as it wouldn't go anywhere. If they had developed it, a major complaint would be they spent so much time on something that went nowhere.


Ehh, I agree that she didn't fall victim to the damsel in distress cliche, and I do applaud that. But she wasn't interesting at all. She was "Strong, Tough Woman" but that's all there was to her.

Yeah, and while we're at it...

Tony Stark is just a hedonist with a powerful toy.
Peter Parker is just some creepy stalker with an overlong crush who was bitten by a spider.
And Charles Foster Kane was just some guy with a sled.
OH! And Luke Skywalker is just a kid with daddy issues.


Seriously, can you describe her as a character at all beyond "Strong, Tough Woman?" She didn't feel like a fully developed person to me at all, but more of a walking cliche.

Um, yeah I can:

Strong, independent, wants to be treated the same and not discriminated against because she's a woman, gets angered when spoken down to when she is discriminated against and sticks up for herself, has a pretty good shot, is an action girl, has feelings too, gets mad at Steve for kissing another woman, she's not just tough, she feels for Steve when he makes that sacrifice at the end, she can be encouraging when she tells Steve he can be more than just a "lab rat" or "performing monkey"


Are we using different definitions of character development? To clarify then, by 'character development' I mean that the characters developed on some level. That they changed, they grew.

Um, a character doesn't have to change to be a good, strong character. Character development means a character is developed (or shown) to the audience, as in we get a clear idea of who the character is, what they stand for, and what their inner workings are like.


Steve Rogers was determined, refused to give up, and hated bullies. What has changed by the end of the movie? He got muscles and super-powers, but personality wise, he's the same.

Steve didn't have to change he was already heroic which was the point of the character. And yes, he did change: even with the power he got he remained a good, kind guy. The theme was those with powers take it for granted and let it go to their head, but one without it knows how to use it properly and find more constructive ways to solve a problem. The film developed him to be this.


Peggy was Tough, Strong Woman when they introduced her, she was Tough, Strong Woman at the end. Randomly putting her in a red dress for one scene for no apparent reason isn't character development.

Again, the film shows her to be this and she's developed.


And do please explain to me Red Skull's development. How did he grow, change? For that matter, what was his motivation? Blow everyone up because we're too war-like? Was that...was that meant to be ironic or not? Again, I could never tell when the writers were trying to parody something or just didn't think things through.

Red Skull was just sort of a standard take-over-the-world villain, but still, he was still threatening and Hugo Weaving as a villain=AWESOME!


Quite the contrary. I can assure you, my opinion differing from your own is in no way an indication that there is something wrong with my mental faculties.

Who are you to disagree? Some kind of guy with an opinion? Opinion is not what you think it is. Look it up. Oh, wait, it is.

[JadedDM]

Really, can you name some good (action) films that don't have some cliches?

Probably not. But I think you misunderstand my initial complaint. The fact that the movie had cliches didn't bother me. It was that it had too many of them. In fact, at least to me, the entire movie felt like one big cliche storm.

And cliches are not inherently bad. The reason they are so popular is because they work. But in the hands of good writers, cliches can be played with, given new twists, or just written well enough that it doesn't feel like you've seen this a thousand times before.


It was a classic story about an underdog hero rising up and defeating an evil empire.

Indeed, it was. But I feel like that's all it was. There's no further depth to it than that.


The romantic subplot was that important to the main story as it wouldn't go anywhere. If they had developed it, a major complaint would be they spent so much time on something that went nowhere.

Which is why it annoys me, I suppose. It wasn't necessary at all. But they had to have one in there, because A) there's some unwritten law that every movie ever must have a romantic interest and B) the fans would no doubt be upset if she didn't appear in the movie. Consequently, it felt like it was added forcefully.


Tony Stark is just a hedonist with a powerful toy.
Peter Parker is just some creepy stalker with an overlong crush who was bitten by a spider.
And Charles Foster Kane was just some guy with a sled.
OH! And Luke Skywalker is just a kid with daddy issues.

All of these characters can be summed up as such, but you are doing them a disservice that way. They all have additional depths. Captain America, his team (including Bucky), Peggy, and Red Skull did not.


Strong, independent, wants to be treated the same and not discriminated against because she's a woman, gets angered when spoken down to when she is discriminated against and sticks up for herself, has a pretty good shot, is an action girl, has feelings too, gets mad at Steve for kissing another woman, she's not just tough, she feels for Steve when he makes that sacrifice at the end, she can be encouraging when she tells Steve he can be more than just a "lab rat" or "performing monkey"

The vast majority of those are just other ways of saying "Strong, Tough Woman." Let's go down the list here:

Strong - That falls under "Tough, Strong Woman" does it not?
Independent - Another way of saying "Strong, tough woman."
Wants to be treated the equally - Another way of saying "Strong, tough woman."
Doesn't like sexism/sticks up for self - Another way of saying "Strong, tough woman."
Pretty good shot - Not really a personality trait, but okay, I'll accept that
Action girl - Another way of saying "Strong, tough woman."
has feelings too - Quite vague
gets mad at Steve for kissing another woman - So, jealous? Okay, I'll take that one.
she's not just tough/feels for Steve when he makes sacrifice
she can be encouraging - Standard issue for a love interest, but okay

So of that entire list, basically all you could come up with was 'jealous, encouraging, capable of grief.' While you've proven she has more depth than I've initially stated, I'd argue it's not much depth. She's still pretty much a two-dimensional character designed to support Steve. Which hardly seems necessary, as that's the exact same role Bucky serves.


Um, a character doesn't have to change to be a good, strong character.

Technically true, but having depth sure helps in the matter.


Steve didn't have to change he was already heroic which was the point of the character. And yes, he did change: even with the power he got he remained a good, kind guy.

He changed...by not changing? Despite the way you worded that, I think I understand what you are saying. He wasn't corrupted by the power given to him. But he has no depth. He comes off as rather boring. And this is coming from a guy who's favorite TMNT is Leonardo and favorite X-Man is Cyclops.


Again, the film shows her to be this and she's developed.

I disagree. She's an archetype at best. Granted, at least they made her Strong, Tough Action Girl as opposed to some whimpering faux-action girl who needs her man to accomplish anything, but she still lacks depth.


Red Skull was just sort of a standard take-over-the-world villain, but still, he was still threatening and Hugo Weaving as a villain=AWESOME!


Which wasn't enough for me. I get there are some people who think certain actors can get away with anything. There are people who are going to see Battleship just because Liam Neeson is in it, after all. But I just found Red Skull to be little more than something you might see in a Power Rangers episode.

Hopefully, Cap will have some more growth and depth in Avengers. I am curious to see how he deals with the many, many changes the world has gone through in the past 70 years.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

...there's some unwritten law that every movie ever must have a romantic interest


Except Reservoir Dogs. One of the reasons it's my favorite movie ever.

[TimeWizard]

"Can you handle this?"
"Of course I can. I've punched out Hitler over 200 times."

Classic.

[WalkingTarget]

He changed...by not changing? Despite the way you worded that, I think I understand what you are saying. He wasn't corrupted by the power given to him. But he has no depth. He comes off as rather boring. And this is coming from a guy who's favorite TMNT is Leonardo and favorite X-Man is Cyclops.

The point of Steve Rogers is that he really is that good of a person. Cyke is my favorite X-man as well and I've said many times before that he's tough to write well because it's really hard to portray the straight-laced hero in a way that makes him popular without making him a hypocrite in some way. I appreciate it when a piece of fiction allows the hero to be unironically Good. That's why Cap remained relevant in a world of superpowered characters - he's the guy who leads by example. He's like Superman in DC in that respect. He's the guy with the moral compass that the others can look to (for the most part, individual writers have their own agendas sometimes and 70 years of continuity is a lot to put on anybody).


Hopefully, Cap will have some more growth and depth in Avengers. I am curious to see how he deals with the many, many changes the world has gone through in the past 70 years.

And here's where you're getting to the real point. Cap has to be shown to be this straight-laced boyscout, incorruptible before he has to deal with the party dynamic of other, egotistical, and more outright powerful characters. He's generally the leader of these guys, but we have to establish why he's qualified, especially given that he's so far out of his element time-wise. His appearance in the '40s comics was Axis-smashing fun - fairly one-dimentional in the original Kirby/Simon run. It was Stan Lee's revival (and retcon) of the character in the '60s that gave him some depth.

[sealemon]

You are now attempting to apply physics to a fictional metal thrown by a man enhanced with a fictional serum.

Just pointing that out.

Total BS fanwank: I always figured the vibranium (notice no mention in the movie of it being an iron-vibranium composite...simply vibranium) absorbed vibrations that come at it from one direction, then release the energy from the edges of the shield...kinda like how a magnet attracts or repels depending on who it's facing. I fully understand this makes no scientific sense, but as you also pointed out...it's comic book "science".

[FlashRah]

You know, I had given up on superhero movies. For the longest it seemed like my escapism was being dogpiled by the prevailing sense that the genre needed to be "dark" and "serious". As a result we got absoloute dreck like Superman Returns, X-Men 3 and The Dark Knight (:smallannoyed: oh sod off, it was awful). It seemed that my voice crying for escapism to be... well... escapism was lost in a sea of unanimous praise for this terrible new direction.

So thank you Captain America for restoring my faith and for being (in my opinion) the greatest superhero movie since Superman II. And I hope to welcome back the genre as a whole, perhaps it's gotten over it's annoying puberty.

[Reverent-One]

You know, I had given up on superhero movies. For the longest it seemed like my escapism was being dogpiled by the prevailing sense that the genre needed to be "dark" and "serious". As a result we got absoloute dreck like Superman Returns, X-Men 3 and The Dark Knight (:smallannoyed: oh sod off, it was awful). It seemed that my voice crying for escapism to be... well... escapism was lost in a sea of unanimous praise for this terrible new direction.

I believe you're confusing "not done in the style you prefer" (Specifically, with an escapist tone) with "awful".

[TheCountAlucard]

Just got out of the theaters.

My opinion? Best movie I've seen this year. Not just talking about in theater, either.

Sorry for not slogging through the rest of this thread; I read the first page, figured I'd just go ahead and share my opinion. :smalltongue:

[jidasfire]

I really enjoyed this movie. Granted, I'm a Captain America fan in general, but I think the movie nailed the essence of Steve Rogers incredibly well. My only real criticism is that Hydra felt pretty incompetent, but then, even in the comics, Hydra goons are pretty ineffectual, relying on numbers more than anything else, so that may have been intentional.

As for Steve being a flat character, it's true that he is more traditionally uncomplicated and heroic than most Marvel heroes, though I would say that doesn't make him less of a person. Steve is corny, he's kind of a nerd, he's shy, he loves to draw, and while it's true that he doesn't have a traditional character arc in the sense that he grows in this story, it's partly because during WWII, Steve is exactly where he needs to be, and exactly when. It's only when he's thawed out in the modern era that he has character conflict, because then he becomes the man out of time, and his struggle is adapting to a very different world with very different values. I suppose it may be a bit of a copout to say Cap will get development in a later story, but I think he has enough nuances that he isn't uninteresting.

[TheEmerged]

The point of Steve Rogers is that he really is that good of a person. Cyke is my favorite X-man as well and I've said many times before that he's tough to write well because it's really hard to portray the straight-laced hero in a way that makes him popular without making him a hypocrite in some way. I appreciate it when a piece of fiction allows the hero to be unironically Good. That's why Cap remained relevant in a world of superpowered characters - he's the guy who leads by example. He's like Superman in DC in that respect. He's the guy with the moral compass that the others can look to (for the most part, individual writers have their own agendas sometimes and 70 years of continuity is a lot to put on anybody).

I think this was put well in the Spiderman/Secret Wars series a few years back. If you find yourself arguing with Cap, it probably means you're wrong :smallcool: Of course, the inverse (if you find yourself arguing with Iron Man, you're probably right) has almost become a cliche in Marvel over the years...

[Alchemistmerlin]

I believe you're confusing "not done in the style you prefer" (Specifically, with an escapist tone) with "awful".

I believe you are trying to make a distinction between someone expressing his opinion and someone expressing his opinion.

If he thinks Dark Knight was awful then, in his reality, it was.


In your reality it was not.

*cough*

Captain American was awesomeriffic with a fresh cut side of "Dude with a shotgun kills some Nazis."

Actually I'm a little sad that less time was spent on "Steve Rogers the War Hero" and more time on "Steve Rogers the Super Hero", but I suppose that was necessary to keep the general audience happy.

I am sad he didn't deliver any classic Captain America style preachy inspirational speeches, it made him come across as very young which will make filling his role in the Avengers (As I see it) difficult. He may not be "Leaderguy" in The Avengers though, given what they've been doing with Iron Man he may take that role (blech):smallyuk:

[chiasaur11]

I believe you are trying to make a distinction between someone expressing his opinion and someone expressing his opinion.

If he thinks Dark Knight was awful then, in his reality, it was.


In your reality it was not.

*cough*

Captain American was awesomeriffic with a fresh cut side of "Dude with a shotgun kills some Nazis."

Actually I'm a little sad that less time was spent on "Steve Rogers the War Hero" and more time on "Steve Rogers the Super Hero", but I suppose that was necessary to keep the general audience happy.

I am sad he didn't deliver any classic Captain America style preachy inspirational speeches, it made him come across as very young which will make filling his role in the Avengers (As I see it) difficult. He may not be "Leaderguy" in The Avengers though, given what they've been doing with Iron Man he may take that role (blech):smallyuk:

Tony Stark has the world's biggest ego, ever since Doctor Doom rights went to Fox.

Does it surprise you he'd go up to a god and the living legend of world war 2, assuming he calls the shots?

[Reverent-One]

I believe you are trying to make a distinction between someone expressing his opinion and someone expressing his opinion.

If he thinks Dark Knight was awful then, in his reality, it was.


In your reality it was not.

He didn't say he simply didn't like it (an opinion), he said it was awful, a more objective statement. Hence my comment.

[Alchemistmerlin]

He didn't say he simply didn't like it (an opinion), he said it was awful, a more objective statement. Hence my comment.

Something is not "more objective" or "More subjective". That's a binary toggle. Stating something is awful is an opinion statement.

Things can be "more easily agreed on" certainly, and I believe you'd have an easier time getting a large number of people to agree that Dark Knight was not awful, but it would still be a subjective agreement.

[Reverent-One]

Something is not "more objective" or "More subjective". That's a binary toggle. Stating something is awful is an opinion statement.

That sounds more like an objective statement than an opinion statement to me. Again, he's not just saying he didn't like it, or it just didn't appeal to him, but that it was awful.

[Traab]

That sounds more like an objective statement than an opinion statement to me. Again, he's not just saying he didn't like it, or it just didn't appeal to him, but that it was awful.

And to him, it was awful. I dont see a problem here. You liked it, bully for you. He didnt, good for him.

[Psyren]

Blah blah subjective blah. Dark Knight rocked and this was even better.

Now join me in contemplating Chris Evans' pecs. P-E-C-S.

http://thebosh.com/archives/2010/11/08/chris_evans1.jpg

Don't you guys feel better now?

[chiasaur11]

Blah blah subjective blah. Dark Knight rocked and this was even better.

Now join me in contemplating Chris Evans' pecs. P-E-C-S.

http://thebosh.com/archives/2010/11/08/chris_evans1.jpg

Don't you guys feel better now?

Not particularly.

But the second half of the first point is generally, if not my position, definitely defensible.

Geeze. The amount of muscles in The Avengers with Chris and Chris sharing screentime...

People will die. One of them will flex a little much, and SNAP. Spines broken.

[Leliel]

Just saw it.

Man, that was awesome.

Sure, it was cheesy, but it's the charming kind of cheesy. Very pulp.

Except for the Hydra salutes. Seriously, Schmitt, if you're making a badass pose, you don't think "my team just won at a ball game".

[MammonAzrael]

I just got back from watching it and I enjoyed it. I don't think it was Marvel's strongest outing, but still very enjoyable. Cap, and his "powers" were suitably understated, though I do with they had showcased his brilliant tactical mind a bit more (and maybe show how difficult it is to accurately wield his shield).

Chris Evans turned in a solid performance, but I really enjoyed Hugo Weaving. A phenomenal Red Skull, and one that didn't look too silly.

As for the character depth discussion, I find myself agreeing with jidasfire. Overall, an enjoyable movie and a fun way to spend the evening.

Also, exciting Avengers preview! :smallbiggrin:

[Sipex]

I absolutely adored the movie, it was a bit campy in places but in the end, I had a lot of fun watching it.

And that's all that really matters.

I look forward to The Avengers.

[Giggling Ghast]

Finally got around to seeing this. It was pretty good. My only complaint would be that there are no action sequences that really stand out from each other.

But coupled with Thor and X-Men, I think it's fair to say that this is the summer of Bittersweet Superhero Movie Endings.

[Capt. Ido Nos]

I saw it last night and liked it. Don't have much else to say that hasn't been said except possibly that
I thought the brick joke with the knife was clever.
I thought it was too! I loved how they had callbacks on things like that.


I saw Cap on Saturday, and I thought it was a great movie. Definitely on par with the other pre-avenger movies we've seen so far. I actually went into this movie completely without any idea of what was going to happen, and I admittedly don't know that much about Captain America's lore as a character, so I was pretty please when I saw Agent Smith and managed to piece together who he actually was before the big reveal.

On a different note, I didn't except this movie to be so funny! Honestly, I walked out of that theater thinking they could have called it Captain Trollmerica, what with all the beautiful snide remarks and shenanigans they pulled. It's refreshing to see a hero just up and frig up a mook's escape vehicle instead of going something more... valiant. "Hey, you're in a sub? Ima break your cockpit window, what are you going to do about THAT?" Also, I will never look at fondue the same way again.

My one big complaint is that the part where he gets his band of guys together, the movie takes a confusing patriotic action montage that really made me lose track of what was going on where and when. Meh! Small complaints. It's a solid movie, I had a great time.

[kpenguin]

Thought I'd drop this in here (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/08/27/captain-america-writer-how-about-peter-dinklage-as-modok/)

MODOK. In a Captain America sequel. Played by Peter Dinklage.

One of the most goofball Marvel villains ever. On the big screen. In live action. The very thought makes me incredibly giddy. Giddy as a schoolgirl.

BRING ON THE CAMP, BABY!

[Capt. Ido Nos]

Thought I'd drop this in here (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/08/27/captain-america-writer-how-about-peter-dinklage-as-modok/)

MODOK. In a Captain America sequel. Played by Peter Dinklage.

One of the most goofball Marvel villains ever. On the big screen. In live action. The very thought makes me incredibly giddy. Giddy as a schoolgirl.

BRING ON THE CAMP, BABY!
Oh yes, YES please oh let this be a thing that happens :'D

[Giggling Ghast]

Thought I'd drop this in here (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/08/27/captain-america-writer-how-about-peter-dinklage-as-modok/)

MODOK. In a Captain America sequel. Played by Peter Dinklage.

GODS NO. I hate Modok with a passion. I couldn't bring myself to see him in live-action.

[Psyren]

GODS NO. I hate Modok with a passion. I couldn't bring myself to see him in live-action.

I have to agree. While I do think Dinklage would be the best choice for a live-action MODOK, he just doesn't fit with modern Marvel sensibilities. It would be like a Superman movie with Bizzaro or Mxypztlk as the main villain. :smallyuk:

I'm still shocked he made it into MvC3; I remember thinking "they must have scraped the bottom of the barrel on this one."

[Leliel]

Really?

I think he's hilarious.

And you haven't seen Silver Age MODOK, either-there's a reason he changed his acronym.