PDA

View Full Version : [3.5ish]Advanced Weapon Proficiencies [assistance requiested]



Absol197
2011-06-12, 08:38 PM
Hello once again, all.

I'm currently working on a system that I call "Advanced Weapon Proficiencies," and I could use some assistance from the brilliant minds on the Playground. Here's the gist of it:

So, as some might know, I'm working on creating an Avatar: the LAst Airbender system that is based off of a combination of 3.5, PAthfinder, and Star Wars Saga Edition (if you're interested, see my sig). This weapons system was created for that game. The general idea is, since Avatar is a very wushu-based world, I wanted to have the non-benders and peple who wield weapons to have interesting combat options as well, based on their choice of weapon. And being a martial artist myself, I'm familiar with many weapon styles for some common (And not-so-common) Chinese weapons, and know that there's a lot more versatility there than the typical, "I move up and full attack it," system.

Going off of this, I started to create a series of feats that would give special abilities to people weilding certain weapons. However, I realized later that I could make the whole thing a lot simpler: I transformed Exotic Weapon Proficiency into Advanced Weapon Proficiency. The feat now gives you proficiency with an Exotic (now called Advanced) weapon of your choice, or, you can take it with respect to a simple or martial weapon you are proficient with to gain a series of special abilities and effects when wielding that weapon. What I'm stuck on now is coming up with said abilities. What I've got right now is below:

Weapons:
Battleaxe: The head of this large axe is set on a shaft of nearly three feet long, allowing it to be used in either one or two hands.
Advanced: A character with advanced proficiency with a battleaxe may use his Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls if he has the Weapon Finesse feat. In addition, such training makes the character skilled at maneuvering the blade to function as a shield, granting a +1 shield bonus to Defense rolls when wielding a battleaxe. When such a character scores a critical hit on a target, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of bleed damage.

Broadsword: A weapon favored by the Fire Nation, the broadsword is a one-handed sword with a distinctive curved blade. It often has a decorative flag that hangs down from the end of its haft.
Advanced: A wielder with advanced proficiency in broadswords and the Weapon Finesse feat may add his Intelligence bonus to attack and damage. If the character fights with a broadsword in each hand, he only takes the penalty associated with using a light weapon in his off-hand.

Club: A simple club is merely a heavy stick, and so has no cost, as a character could simply pick one up off the ground. A well-forged club, such as the kinds made of the Water Tribes, are masterwork weapons or better made, and often made of metal, bone, or other exotic materials.
Advanced: A character with advanced training with a club causes his target to be temporarily staggered when struck by a critical hit.

Dagger: A dagger is a small blade about 6 inches to 1 foot long. You gain a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a dagger on your person (see Chapter 4).
Advanced: In the proper hands, a dagger is a deadly weapon. A character with advanced training with daggers increases the dagger’s critical multiplier to x3, and may draw them while they are concealed as a move action, or as a free action with the Quick Draw feat.

Longspear: A longspear is about 8 feet in length. It is normally tapered and made of a light, flexible wood. At the base of the spear-tip, there is typically a mass of red hairs, which serve both to distract the opponent, and to absorb blood on the weapon so it doesn’t interfere with the wielder’s grip.
Advanced: The wielder can choose to use the longspear as a double weapon, using the spear-tip and the butt of the spear (which has a damage and critical rating of 1d6/x2) as light weapons. The wielder must choose whether to use this style or the typical reach style at the beginning of his turn. Whichever style he uses, he still threatens squares as normal for a reach weapon. When fighting defensively or using the full-defense action, a character with advanced proficiency with a longspear can use the spear to turn aside blows, granting a +2 deflection bonus to Defense rolls. This bonus does not apply against energy attacks.

Sai: The sai is a short, metal rod that tapers to a point, with a hooked guard on both sides. A sai gives its wielder a +2 bonus on combat maneuver checks to disarm an opponent.
Advanced: A sai can be used with the Stunning Fist feat, and the bonus to disarm attempts increases to +4. A character with the Weapon Finesse feat can apply his Wisdom modifier to attack and damage rolls with a sai. The character gains a +1 deflection bonus to Defense rolls (this bonus does not function against energy attacks).

Sword, Straight: Rare and delicately balanced, the straight sword is an elegant weapon that is used by the greatest masters. A straight sword cannot be wielded two-handed. A character with the Weapon Finesse feat can apply his Dexterity bonus to his attack rolls with a straight sword, even though it is not a light weapon.
Advanced: With advanced proficiency, a straight sword becomes an incredibly deadly weapon. The wielder may add either his Intelligence or Wisdom bonus to attack and damage (when gaining advanced proficiency, the character chooses which ability to use, and this choice cannot be changed) if he has the Weapon Finesse feat. He also adds that ability score as a deflection bonus against attacks of which he is aware, even if flat-footed (except for energy attacks). Using a straight sword in this fashion requires his other hand be free: he cannot use a shield or wield another weapon, unless that weapon is also a straight sword (taking all the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons).

Sword, Tiger-Hooked: These intriguing swords have a long, thin blade that ends in a wicked hook. The grip is protected with a guard that has a crescent-shaped blade on the outside, and a small spike juts out from the back of the weapon. When attacking with a tiger-hooked sword, the character can use the blade (1d6/19–20) or the spike (1d6/x3), but he cannot switch between the two. A tiger-hooked sword can be used with the Weapon Finesse feat, even though it is not a light weapon. If a character with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat wields a tiger-hooked sword in both hands, it is treated as a light weapon for the purposes of fighting with two weapons.
Advanced: To a character with advanced training, these odd blades are incredibly deadly. He can switch between using the blade or spike while making attacks with the sword at no penalty. In addition, if he wields two such swords, he can connect the hooks of the two blades together, using the spike of the connected weapon to make attacks with reach. Connecting the weapon in this fashion is a free action, but disconnecting them is a swift action.

General info and such:

1) Weapon Finesse has been changed: it now allows you to apply your Dex instead of your Str to attack and damage, and may allow other abilities with certain weapons, if you have AWP.

2) Simple weapons should gain 1 or 2 abilities, matial and advanced weapons shoud gain at least 1 alternate ability score and 2 to 3 abilities (advanced weapons require the feat to be proficient, but also immediately grant all associated abilities).

3) You may have noticed that there are some non-standard weapons in there--that's because, as I said, this was initially developed for my Avatar setting.

4) If you have advanced proficinecy with a reach weapon, all squares adjacent to you count as difficult terrain unless an opponent charges you, meaning they can 5-foot step in.

5) While I plan on using this in basic 3.5/Pathfinder, the system I'm building it for uses the Condition track, which means most conditions that simply impose a penalty to certain rolls (shaken, sickened, etc.) don't exist. Not too incredibly important, but I should probably mention it.


So, any ideas for abilities and such for other weapons? The normal weapons from Core 3.5/Pathfinder, as well as any other asian-themed weapons are fair game. I'll continue to edit this post as I come up with more, but I could really use some assistance.

Mulletmanalive
2011-06-13, 07:08 AM
Well, i'm not actually seeing any actual options here, to speak of. These are mostly static and do nothing to the "i full attack and fillet his ass" form of donkey slaughter.

To take ques from elsewhere, you need moves that take Standard or Full actions, attacks that require a set up, cobos with combat manoeuvres.

You've completely ignored the Dao around the neck parry/overhead strike thing and the Jian rising snap attack [the thing where you flick the blade up into wrists or junk] etc

erikun
2011-06-13, 09:58 AM
There isn't really much you can do about the "run at them and full attack" option. Even if you give weapons some interesting properities, it will still involve full attacking opponents in the face. The specific attacks may change a bit, but the result is still very similar.

Here are a few suggestions.

Advanced Battleaxe Fighting
What you'll want to use for axes depends a lot on how accurate you want to be. Do you imaging axes and giant slabs of metal the size of their owners, like in anime or video games? Or are they a more realistic wedge of steel, dangerous for their edge and momentium? Needless, axes tend to be mostly offensive - you aren't likely to be doing anything fancy with them. I'd recommend one of the following:

- Treat the Battleaxe as a Buckler for determining AC purposes. The magical bonus on the Battleaxe applies to the AC shield bonus.

- Increase the Battleaxe's critical range (to 19-20) and critical multiplier (to x4). This stacks with Improved Critical and similar multipliers.

Advanced Broadsword Fighting
Parry - Once each round, the character with Advanced Broadsword Fighting may attempt to parry any single attack that uses an attack roll. The character makes an attack roll, and if it is greater than the attack roll of their opponent, then the attack is negated (the same as if the attacker's initial roll missed).

This is basically an upgraded Deflect Arrows. I'm allowing it to apply to touch attacks for the Wuxia feel.

Advanced Club Fighting
Any time the character attacks an opponent with a club while they are denied a Dexterity bonus to AC, or when flanking, a successful hit forces a Fortitude save to avoid being stunned for 1 round. Save DC is 10 + 1/2 level + STR modifier.

Advanced Dagger Fighting
The character may make feint attempts during iteratives of a full attack.

Anytime the character makes a successful feint against an opponent, they may follow it up with a dagger attack. This follow-up during an iterative has the same penalities as usual.

Advanced Sai Fighting
When wielding a single sai, the character is considered armed with a 1-handed weapon for the purposes of combat maneuvers (such as disarm). When wielding a sai in each hand, the character is considered armed with a 2-handed weapon.

Advanced Tiger-Hooked Sword Fighting
Assuming this is what I think it is, they should be getting a +2 to trip and +2 to disarm attacks as well.

Mulletmanalive
2011-06-13, 10:08 AM
There isn't really much you can do about the "run at them and full attack" option. Even if you give weapons some interesting properities, it will still involve full attacking opponents in the face. The specific attacks may change a bit, but the result is still very similar.

Not going to argue with the results [massive damage] being similar, but the entirety of the Tome of Battle seems to demonstrate that there IS more to life than just full attacking...

Absol197
2011-06-13, 11:44 AM
Well, i'm not actually seeing any actual options here, to speak of. These are mostly static and do nothing to the "i full attack and fillet his ass" form of donkey slaughter.

To take ques from elsewhere, you need moves that take Standard or Full actions, attacks that require a set up, combos with combat manoeuvres.

You've completely ignored the Dao around the neck parry/overhead strike thing and the Jian rising snap attack [the thing where you flick the blade up into wrists or junk] etc

That's sort of the point: what I've got at the moment doesn't really change things too incredibly, which is why I can here looking for help :smallsmile: . My training with a chien (my school uses the older form of spellings, sorry if that gets confusing) is minimal, so I'm not familiar with some of its more advanced tchniques. The tao parry, of course, I should have remembered, and I am now kicking myself that I didn't...


There isn't really much you can do about the "run at them and full attack" option. Even if you give weapons some interesting properities, it will still involve full attacking opponents in the face. The specific attacks may change a bit, but the result is still very similar.

Here are a few suggestions.

*snip*

These are great, thanks! As for your axe question, in the Avatar-verse, they stick very close to realistic weapons (with a few exceptions). There aren't really any of the "GIANT 15-FOOT SWORD OF DOOM!!!!1!11!" type things. So, realistic axe. And I know that usually there's nothing fancy to do with it; that's why I added the shield thing: to show that the character knows how to use the whole weapon for both offense and defense, not just for hacking things to bits.


Not going to argue with the results [massive damage] being similar, but the entirety of the Tome of Battle seems to demonstrate that there IS more to life than just full attacking...

I don't own Tome of Battle, but the maneuvers there are kind of what I'm going for (since neither I nor any of my friends own it, it makes it hard to reference), but not quite as powerful as I remember then being. I don't want people to have to refresh their maneuvers, so they can use them all they want. Also, the setting this is basically designed for doesn't have traditional magic, so fighty-types don't have as much of a gap to bridge. However, I'm definitely thinking of porting this over to standard 3.5/Pathfinder, so...

EDIT: Some additional problems I'm having:

The point of this is to give each weapon style a unique flavor, but the problem is it's supposed to be one feat that gives these abilities. There can't be too much, or it stops being appropriate for a single feat. Just in my own school with just the chien, the masters teach tai-chi chien and pa kua chien and hsing-i chien and probably a dozen other styles, each with its own techniques. What I need is some basic or iconic techniques for the weapon, that can make it unique, and then other feats can imitate the different styles.
For the chien as our example, a character who uses Int for his alternate ability, and then uses Power Attack and other heavy damage feats could be using the hsing-i style, while a character who uses Wisdom as his alternate ability and uses Combat Expertise and focuses on mobility type feats could be using the pa kua style, but both are the same weapon. Does that make sense?

The second problem is I'm having trouble coming up with ways to implement the maneuvers I know in the game. Moving to the chiang (spear) for a moment, the iconic "deflect, trap, thrust" sequence would be a great maneuver, but my own lack of creativity on the subject means I can't find a way to implement it.

The third problem is that while I'm familiar with a lot of chinese weapons (helpful, because the setting uses them a lot), I'm not familiar with a lot of other weapons. The battleaxe one I came up with because I've got a player who wants to use it, but I don't know any axe styles (they're not really my thing--I'm no good at strong styles :smallredface:), so how can I come up with something appropriate? That another reason I need y'all's help; there are some weapons I just don't know!

Hazzardevil
2011-06-13, 12:00 PM
I don't own Tome of Battle, but the maneuvers there are kind of what I'm going for (since neither I nor any of my friends own it, it makes it hard to reference), but not quite as powerful as I remember then being. I don't want people to have to refresh their maneuvers, so they can use them all they want. Also, the setting this is basically designed for doesn't have traditional magic, so fighty-types don't have as much of a gap to bridge. However, I'm definitely thinking of porting this over to standard 3.5/Pathfinder, so...

Allow me to introduce you to the Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and Maneuvers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a).

Absol197
2011-06-13, 01:48 PM
Allow me to introduce you to the Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and Maneuvers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a).

Thanks for that, I'll definitely be looking it over.

I can't just use the class by itself, but at least I can get ideas from the maneuvers themselves.