Gestalt Dread Necromancer//Crusader suggestions

[Talya]

level 15 starting evil gestalt.

Going for a whole "She got a queen-o-the-undead thing goin' on."

I'm thinking... Dread Necro//Crusader/RKV
Race: Magic-Blooded Human
Dread Necromancer has been renamed a divine spellcaster as per the DM, so i can wear armor.
Focus on White Raven to give boosts to my army of darkness.
Hit points are all capped, so Necropolitan may be a good move.
Currently looking at ability scores (at 15, before gear) of 18 str, 12 dex, Con -, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 22.


Feats i'm interested in: Power Attack, Divine Might, Force of Personality...


'm debating whether to take a level of Divine Bard, Favored Soul, or Shugenja for my a divine spellcasting class for RKV to raise. I've got dread necro for Rebuke Undead. Whatever divine class I take needs to be based on charisma...shugenja may be the best bet.

Any suggestions here?

[Godskook]

Force of Personality isn't that great, imho, cause it only applies to a limited selection of will saves. Probably better if you dip two levels of Paladin(there's an alignment for almost everything now-a-days).

I'm not sure that getting DN treated as divine was in your interests. For one, you're starting late game, when really good armor is available, which means you can get your ASF down to zero on some fairly good armor. Possibly combine with a dip into spellsword.....

Actually, before I continue down that path, what's your DM's take on gestalt rules, cause imho, the RAW is just simply ludicrously off(Archmage ok, but daggerspell mage is banned, yeah no).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Force of Personality only applies to saves vs mind-affecting spells and abilities, if you're a Necropolitan or have a Ghostly Visage familiar possessing you your character will be outright immune to those anyway. Definitely get Extra Granted Maneuver, it allows you to use your favorite maneuver once every three rounds instead of once every four rounds.

Divine Crusader would be an ideal choice if Wee Jas offered better domains and favored weapon. Maybe get Versatile Spellcaster, and leave your Divine Crusader spell slots open to spend them two at a time to cast DN spells.

If you're going to be a Necropolitan, you won't gain the Lich template for free from DN so it's probably not worth taking all twenty of its levels. You could just use RKV to advance your DN spellcasting, go DN//Crusader and then DN//RKV on the first and fifth RKV levels. On the eight levels that RKV advances spellcasting I'd go Unarmed Swordsage//RKV, get Ascetic Mage to add your Cha bonus to AC in light armor, and pick up all the Diamond Mind maneuvers that let you roll a Concentration check instead of a saving throw.

[Talya]

Force of Personality only applies to saves vs mind-affecting spells and abilities, if you're a Necropolitan or have a Ghostly Visage familiar possessing you your character will be outright immune to those anyway. Definitely get Extra Granted Maneuver, it allows you to use your favorite maneuver once every three rounds instead of once every four rounds.

Divine Crusader would be an ideal choice if Wee Jas offered better domains and favored weapon. Maybe get Versatile Spellcaster, and leave your Divine Crusader spell slots open to spend them two at a time to cast DN spells.

If you're going to be a Necropolitan, you won't gain the Lich template for free from DN so it's probably not worth taking all twenty of its levels. You could just use RKV to advance your DN spellcasting, go DN//Crusader and then DN//RKV on the first and fifth RKV levels. On the eight levels that RKV advances spellcasting I'd go Unarmed Swordsage//RKV, get Ascetic Mage to add your Cha bonus to AC in light armor, and pick up all the Diamond Mind maneuvers that let you roll a Concentration check instead of a saving throw.


I was already planning to skip level 20, but I do like the DN levels in general, for a few reasons, the primary of which is I need it for increasing the number of undead hitpoints I can control (currently it's at 195 at level 15, going up 13 per level with 28 charisma). Also, the class features really work well on a full BAB type. But I do like your ideas here...hmm. I was considering doing something similar with warblade (for the diamond mind access, as well as iron heart surge)...but charisma to AC...hmm. Hell, no reason I can't have all three classes...

Dread Necro 8/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Warblade 1/Dread Necro +4//Crusader 6/RKV 9

This also gets me ennervating touch...But those swordsage/warblade levels cost me 39 hit dice worth of minions. If the DM lets me out of the Wee Jas fluff, I'm still thinking Divine Crusader. I don't know which domain I'd want, But even Wee Jas has a couple nice ones.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Looks good, but maybe move the Swordsage and Warblade levels to later for higher level maneuvers/stances. Note that you can get stances higher than 1st level at the first class level of each of those, they specify on character creation that you're limited to 1st level stances, which would be character level 1, not class level 1, so if your character is higher than 1st level that won't apply. (If you make a 1st level character who plans to eventually take a level of any of those classes, you actually get a 1st level stance on character creation without any initiator levels.)

If you're getting Crusader 6 you may as well pick up Extra Smiting (CW) if you have room for it.

[Talya]

Looks good, but maybe move the Swordsage and Warblade levels to later for higher level maneuvers/stances. Note that you can get stances higher than 1st level at the first class level of each of those, they specify on character creation that you're limited to 1st level stances, which would be character level 1, not class level 1, so if your character is higher than 1st level that won't apply. (If you make a 1st level character who plans to eventually take a level of any of those classes, you actually get a 1st level stance on character creation without any initiator levels.)

If you're getting Crusader 6 you may as well pick up Extra Smiting (CW) if you have room for it.

What I could do, is also take Leadership... (I'd take Undead Leadership, but with a charisma that high I wouldn't need the bonus to leadership score, and Living followers make good sacrifices.) Then the list control dice wouldn't matter as much.

Edit: Oh wow. Undead leadership is sweet...Zombies are so freakin cheap as a cohort. Zombie Dragon...i could havea 24 HD zombie dragon at level 15.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Zombies with more than 20 HD don't exist, unless there's some other unknown way of creating one apart from Animate Dead (there isn't):

Hit Dice

Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.

One great option for an undead cohort is right there in Heroes of Horror, a Tainted Minion from the Monsters chapter. I'd make it a Fighter with the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels, possibly also the Dungeoncrasher ACF if it's large or has powerful build (Goliath with LA buy-off would work). Give it Ability Focus: Fear Aura, Imperious Command, and the Never Outnumbered skill trick, along with chain-tripping feats and possibly Knock-Back if it qualifies. After Fighter 9 Give it a one-level dip in Exotic Weapon Master (trip bonus) and then go Warblade.

I just realized, switching Dread Necromancer to divine casting costs you Arcane Disciple, which is typically used to gain Desecrate. You'll want maybe a one-level dip into Contemplative, or some other means to gain access to a domain to get that. You'll also want to get Awaken Undead, probably via Advanced Learning. Awakened Cave/War Troll Skeletons and Awakened Arrow Demon Skeletons are at the top of the list for powerful undead minions.

[Talya]

Zombies with more than 20 HD don't exist, unless there's some other unknown way of creating one apart from Animate Dead (there isn't):


One great option for an undead cohort is right there in Heroes of Horror, a Tainted Minion from the Monsters chapter. I'd make it a Fighter with the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels, possibly also the Dungeoncrasher ACF if it's large or has powerful build (Goliath with LA buy-off would work). Give it Ability Focus: Fear Aura, Imperious Command, and the Never Outnumbered skill trick, along with chain-tripping feats and possibly Knock-Back if it qualifies. After Fighter 9 Give it a one-level dip in Exotic Weapon Master (trip bonus) and then go Warblade.

I just realized, switching Dread Necromancer to divine casting costs you Arcane Disciple, which is typically used to gain Desecrate. You'll want maybe a one-level dip into Contemplative, or some other means to gain access to a domain to get that. You'll also want to get Awaken Undead, probably via Advanced Learning. Awakened Cave/War Troll Skeletons and Awakened Arrow Demon Skeletons are at the top of the list for powerful undead minions.

One issue with Arcane Disciple is it requires wisdom to cast those domain spells, which I have as 10, and can't really get it much higher apart from gear. (This isn't a point buy, either.)

I can always move DN back to arcane, but then RKV cannot advance it, so i'm stuck finding another divine casting class for it (like...Divine Crusader), and taking DN uninterupted on the other side.

Even Gestalt, one cannot have it all. :smallfrown:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A bit cheesy, but:
1. Take Versatile Spellcaster, spend two DN spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher.
2. Dip one level of (Cloistered) Cleric, gain knowledge of the entire Cleric spell list.
3. ???
4. Profit.

[Talya]

I just realized, switching Dread Necromancer to divine casting costs you Arcane Disciple, which is typically used to gain Desecrate.

Ahah.

Deadwalker's Ring - 2000gp, Complete Mage
-gain the benefits of desecrate on your undead creation spells 3x a day.

AND!


Zombies with more than 20 HD don't exist, unless there's some other unknown way of creating one apart from Animate Dead (there isn't):



Draconomicon has different rules for Dragon Zombies and Dragon Skeletons, both still creatable by Animate Dead. It does allow higher hit dice totals.