Ravenloft Questions

[hobbitkniver]

So I'm going to be starting a new game set in the mists of Ravenloft and I have a few questions.

1. I am being a cleric and I don't really understand the religion system. Would you worship a diety from the ravenloft books or would you worship a god you knew before being pulled into the mists. If you switched dieties, that'd be considered unholy and dishonorable right?

2. My friend that wasn't there when the DM said he was running Ravenloft, was really set on playing a catfolk. Do races besides the ones in the book never exist within the realm? It also seems to me like they could simply have been brought in by the mists.

Any help is appreciated as I have no experience with this setting.

[Psyren]

I'm playing in a Ravenloft game right now actually, and this exact question (your first one) came up almost immediately. Luckily for you, there's a quote from the campaign setting book that addresses this very issue.



The Unspoken Pact
When a cleric enters Ravenloft from another world, she immediately feels a hollowness slip into her heart, a void that the strength and compassion of her deity once filled. Although clerics continue to receive the blessings of their divine patrons, they no longer feel their gods at their side. This absence often causes clerics new to the Land of Mists to suffer crises of faith or pass through periods of deep depression.

For natives of the Land of Mists, this remoteness is perfectly normal; they expect the gods to be distant and inscrutable as a matter of common sense. Some clerics in Ravenloft claim to be the direct vessel of their respective deities, but these folk are widely regarded as madmen and false messiahs.

Without the gods' watchful eyes to monitor all that is said and done in their name, many imported religions experience a "theological shift." As godly legends are passed from one mortal to another, religious teachings often adapt to their new homelands, or even evolve to suit the specific needs of powerful clerics. Tales even exist of clerics who betrayed the core beliefs of their faith yet kept their divine powers. As an example, rumors insist that the grand religion of the Shadowlands, dedicated to the neutral good deity Belenus, is actually steeped in evil practices.

For your second question - yes, any race CAN exist in Ravenloft due to the mists grabbing people from everywhere.. Just don't expect anything non-native or uncommon to be warmly received by the natives. If you're really exotic (e.g. a Warforged) you might attract the attention of the local Darklord, which is usually not a good idea.

So trust no-one, and keep your hood up. This is generally good advice for anyone, but goes double for rare species.

[Hirax]

Non-humans aren't going to be treated very well in a lot of towns, to put it lightly, but your DM could simply put you in a duchy where non-humans aren't looked down on. It wouldn't be hard to adapt things to make the catfolk a plausible choice, but by default it wouldn't be.

In addition to the quoted section, I think I read somewhere is that the Mists of Ravenloft grant you your powers. You might think you're getting your powers from Pelor or Odin, but it's actually just the Mists mimicking them. Hence the distant feeling.

[hobbitkniver]

Well we don't actually have any humans. We have 2 elves (one vampiric) a dwarf and a possible cat folk. As for my casting, I guess it matters if I was born there or not. I better get the DM's input on that one.

[CapnVan]

1. I am being a cleric and I don't really understand the religion system. Would you worship a diety from the ravenloft books or would you worship a god you knew before being pulled into the mists. If you switched dieties, that'd be considered unholy and dishonorable right?

This is a classic role-playing conundrum for all divine-focused characters in Ravenloft.

If you're a native of Ravenloft, you'd almost certainly worship in one of the local faiths. But, of course, the question of how "real" those deities worshipped in those faiths are can become an issue for the campaign.

If you've been pulled into the Mists, there's no reason you can't continue to receive your normal spells and other powers. However, as Psyren's quote (and Hirax) points out, your connection to your deity is, at best, tenuous.

Both of which offer RP opportunities. If your DM is decent, s/he probably already has ideas...
:roach:

[chainer1216]

If you're a native of Ravenloft, you'd almost certainly worship in one of the local faiths. But, of course, the question of how "real" those deities worshipped in those faiths are can become an issue for the campaign.

thats not entirely true, the dark powers have been known to give clerics, of false gods, spells inplace of a real deity, like that one guy who worships the wolf god, which is most likely (but not definately, like all things in ravenloft) not real.

there are those that think that the dark powers give all clerics theyre spells in place of theyre gods, rather than gaining them from actual worship.


and as for catfolk, theyre outsider rating is going to be high, like a +3 maybe.

[CapnVan]

thats not entirely true, the dark powers have been known to give clerics, of false gods, spells inplace of a real deity, like that one guy who worships the wolf god, which is most likely (but not definately, like all things in ravenloft) not real.

there are those that think that the dark powers give all clerics theyre spells in place of theyre gods, rather than gaining them from actual worship.

This was actually my point.

[Psyren]

The most important takeaway from that quote is that Ravenloft is like divine Vegas; what happens there stays there. The "crisis of faith" and "betrayal" bits mean that you can actually switch gods without losing your powers, or keep your deity but have more leeway to act outside its interests, while inside the mists (though be careful of being a jerk - karma is a ***** there with all the curses and whatnot.) The whole "the mists are granting your spells instead" thing is just one explanation that outsiders to RL have come up with. Another theory is that the connection to your normal deity is just muted, so s/he continues to get your requests every morning without seeing what you're doing with them, or being able to check up on the other rites/observances you should be doing.

[Archwizard]

In 2E Ravenloft, the land acted against clerics in a couple ways. Turn Undead was more difficult (you treated each Undead as if they were 1 category tougher to turn), and many spells had altered effects. You still got your spells/powers from your god, but the land, and potentially the lord, would be able to detect you based on what you were doing (e.g., being especially Good or Evil).

I would think that changing dieties would be exactly what the land wants you to do, so doing it would require Powers checks and similar fun, nevermind the implications for when (if) you leave Ravenloft.

As far as cat-people go, think about how the people think of/treat Vistani (it isn't good in general). Cat-people would be much worse off in general.

[hobbitkniver]

New question: Is there anyway to completely prevent the chance of raising them as an undead when you cast raise dead?

[Archwizard]

In Ravenloft? I wouldn't think so. Ravenloft promotes undead (most necromancy spells work better there than outside the demiplane).

[hobbitkniver]

In Ravenloft? I wouldn't think so. Ravenloft promotes undead (most necromancy spells work better there than outside the demiplane).

Well, in the book it says that they have to make a fortitude save or become a free willed and intelligent undead.

[CapnVan]

Well, in the book it says that they have to make a fortitude save or become a free willed and intelligent undead.

Point of Order, good sir!

Could you be so kind as to indicate which book you're referring to, and whether that's the only one you have access to?

There are a whole slew of Ravenloft books, from multiple editions. (Although I do realize the Fort save indicates 3.X of some kind)

[hobbitkniver]

Point of Order, good sir!

Could you be so kind as to indicate which book you're referring to, and whether that's the only one you have access to?

There are a whole slew of Ravenloft books, from multiple editions. (Although I do realize the Fort save indicates 3.X of some kind)

Ravenloft player's handbook 3.5

[CapnVan]

New question: Is there anyway to completely prevent the chance of raising them as an undead when you cast raise dead?

To answer your question: From my (relatively brief) perusal of additional 3E materials, no.

On the other hand, that's not necessarily a character killer — they are specifically free-willed undead, and if your DM has access to Libris Mortis, et al., that doesn't necessarily mean an end to that PC's adventures.

[CapnVan]

2. My friend that wasn't there when the DM said he was running Ravenloft, was really set on playing a catfolk. Do races besides the ones in the book never exist within the realm? It also seems to me like they could simply have been brought in by the mists.

The Ravenloft DMG contains a section specifically on adding races to RL and determining their "outcast rating".

[askandarion]

Yeah, one of the big things about Ravenloft in my experience is the punishment of hubris- you can't guarantee anything, and the harder you try the more likely it goes awry anyway. It's especially bad with good people, that thing with the road being paved with good intentions and all. Or maybe that's just been my DMs...

[CapnVan]

Yeah, one of the big things about Ravenloft in my experience is the punishment of hubris- you can't guarantee anything, and the harder you try the more likely it goes awry anyway. It's especially bad with good people, that thing with the road being paved with good intentions and all. Or maybe that's just been my DMs...

That actually sounds fair — Ravenloft wasn't designed with the, "I hit epic and retire in glory" mindset. Many gamers don't enjoy that, and that's perfectly fair. I think you have to accept a certain "old school" perspective which understands that most of the time, you're going to lose.

Certainly, that's what the Mists have in mind.
:mitd:

[Psyren]

The Mists do reward good behavior though - typically with escape from Ravenloft. The idea is that, yes, you can still achieve the D&D "happy ending" of epic-level retirement and whatnot, you just can't do it there.

[askandarion]

The Mists do reward good behavior though - typically with escape from Ravenloft. The idea is that, yes, you can still achieve the D&D "happy ending" of epic-level retirement and whatnot, you just can't do it there.

I can agree with that. But my opinion is that The Mists also make darned sure it's as difficult as possible to have good behavior- through temptation towards evil or despair from the failure of attempts at doing good. I don't have the 3.5 sourcebook, so I don't know what might have actually been put down- just from my own experiences, novels I've read, and what I recall from that Ravenloft fan website that I absolutely cannot remember the name of anymore. Kartane?

It's supposed to be a hard road- but the style can shift between more "ironic punishments for the evil" and "despair, for all attempts at good come to naught". Since most pcs tend towards the good side, Ravenloft can come across as grossly unfair- curses out of nowhere, good deeds corrupted, spells going awry with sometimes horrible consequences (undead resurrection, anyone?) The characters are fighting against the evil inertia of the demiplane, after all, and it IS supposed to be a horror setting. I'm sure Heroes of Horror snagged stuff from Ravenloft.

Of course, the horror aspect might not work as well when you hit high levels (especially with character optimization), not without the DM representing a high level of interference from the Mists when pcs do stuff.

[Psyren]

I can agree with that. But my opinion is that The Mists also make darned sure it's as difficult as possible to have good behavior- through temptation towards evil or despair from the failure of attempts at doing good. I don't have the 3.5 sourcebook, so I don't know what might have actually been put down- just from my own experiences, novels I've read, and what I recall from that Ravenloft fan website that I absolutely cannot remember the name of anymore. Kartane?

It's supposed to be a hard road- but the style can shift between more "ironic punishments for the evil" and "despair, for all attempts at good come to naught". Since most pcs tend towards the good side, Ravenloft can come across as grossly unfair- curses out of nowhere, good deeds corrupted, spells going awry with sometimes horrible consequences (undead resurrection, anyone?) The characters are fighting against the evil inertia of the demiplane, after all, and it IS supposed to be a horror setting. I'm sure Heroes of Horror snagged stuff from Ravenloft.

Oh no, you're absolutely right of course. Ravenloft is brutal and meant to present the choice between persevering in the face of injustice, and surrendering to vice and a life in the mists as a tough one.

As for it not working so well at high levels, you're correct there as well. I personally believe that at high levels the Mists themselves (or perhaps more accurately, the enigmatic Dark Powers behind them) should become the PC's enemy and focus. Unless they decide to usurp a Darklord's domain anyway. "Better to reign in hell..." as the saying goes for some.

[Hirax]

My belief is actually that the Mists only release you when they get bored with you, based on what happened to Soth. Though that was contrived for the purposes of the ownership issues surrounding Soth. But anyway, if you cease to take their bait and play their games, you're no fun to them anymore, so they release you.

[Debihuman]

So I'm going to be starting a new game set in the mists of Ravenloft and I have a few questions.

1. I am being a cleric and I don't really understand the religion system. Would you worship a diety from the ravenloft books or would you worship a god you knew before being pulled into the mists. If you switched dieties, that'd be considered unholy and dishonorable right?

It depends whether your cleric is a native of Ravenloft or from another place. If you are sucked into Ravenloft from the Realms for example, you lose contact with your deity but are still granted spells. You do not need to switch to a new religion. Also, if your cleric does decide to change religions, it doesn't have to be unholy or dishonorable. Of course, this is a horror setting so bad things happen. You should ask your DM about this.



2. My friend that wasn't there when the DM said he was running Ravenloft, was really set on playing a catfolk. Do races besides the ones in the book never exist within the realm? It also seems to me like they could simply have been brought in by the mists.

The mists can bring in all sorts of people. Your friend can play a non-native race but should expect to be treated rather poorly by the locals. That's the hazard of playing unusual races in a setting where the natives are generally superstitious.


Any help is appreciated as I have no experience with this setting.

I recommend that you read at least some Ravenloft material. I don't know which books you have access to but it is a Horror setting. You'll be making fear, horror and insanity check along the way, provided your DM isn't too heavy-handed and just tries to kill you all the time.

Debby

[CapnVan]

...and what I recall from that Ravenloft fan website that I absolutely cannot remember the name of anymore. Kartane?


I suspect you're referring to the now-defunct (but still up) Secrets of the Kargatane (http://www.kargatane.com/).

[askandarion]

Yes! Thank you!