4e Oots?

[DemLep]

This most likely has already been asked, but didn't see it and was curious. In the first comic, On this site (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html), the PC's are converted to 3.5. Will they eventually convert to 4e or will they stay 3.5?

I would like to see how 4e would effect the characters.

[Ceaon]

Here you go!



5/20/2008

Those of you not currently involved in playing Dungeons & Dragons may or may not be aware that Wizards of the Coast is set to release a new version of the rules—the “Fourth Edition” rules—in less than a month. If the details of such things are of little interest to you, feel free to skip reading this overly verbose news post. You won’t miss much.

Ever since the announcement was made last August, I have gotten roughly 1.3 billion emails asking about whether The Order of the Stick will “convert” to the new system. It is a question I have deliberately avoided answering, much to the consternation of those who like to ask such questions. I will be answering it now: No.

But not in the way you might think. I’m not making some ideological stand about how the current 3.5 Edition is superior or any such thing. I’m simply saying that there will not be a conscious and visible change in the comic strip, wherein the characters convert to a new set of rules as they did in the very first strip. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that the purpose of the comic has shifted away from its original goal of simply poking fun at a game to an actual story, and it is that story on which I would like to focus.

Equally important is the fact that the new edition departs radically from prior versions of the game in terms of what classes and races are initially described. Whether or not this is good for the game isn’t really my concern; I’m more interested in the fact that converting would introduce dozens of unnecessary changes in my story. At the very least, I would need to devote many strips to showing off the ways that characters have been changed by the new rules, strips I would rather devote to advancing the story. This sort of thing isn’t as crucial a problem for a gaming group considering the new game, but when switching would force several of my main characters to significantly change their powers and abilities—and some wouldn’t even have their new abilities defined yet for at least another year!—it becomes less palatable. Again, though, to be crystal clear: This is not a condemnation of the new rules by me. I have not read them yet, having failed to get my hands on an advance copy some time ago. They may well be the finest fantasy roleplaying rules ever written. I wouldn’t know. What I DO know is that they are not suited to my needs as a storyteller at this time.

However, this does NOT mean that I will stop making jokes about the fact that the characters exist within a world that operates like a roleplaying game. Nor will I limit myself to either jokes about 3.5 Edition or 4th Edition. I’ll go where the humor takes me, and if that happens to create gross inconsistencies, then so be it. As an added benefit, I expect it will drive the fans who try to figure out exactly what is occurring in each strip from a strict D&D rules perspective absolutely nuts. If it really bothers anyone, simply imagine that the OOTS world follows someone’s homebrewed hybridization of 3.5 and 4th Editions, using bits and pieces from whichever ruleset they think works better.

Ultimately, as I alluded to in my first paragraph, many (maybe even most) of my readers are not actively involved in playing the current D&D game. Many were players of older editions in their youth who simply enjoy following a story that reminds them of their own past experiences. Others have no interest in roleplaying at all, and just like reading a comedic fantasy comic. My job as an author is not to reflect the current trends, but to deliver the most entertaining story, and I feel I can best do that by continuing on as I have been. Besides, the difference between those playing one version of the rules and another is not really that important in the final analysis. We all either play the same game, or at least appreciate it, and it is to that sense of unity between those who enjoy the hobby (and the genre that it inhabits) that I hope The Order of the Stick will continue to speak.

[Blisstake]

The new OotS book coming out has a section titled "Ivaders from the Fourth Edition Dimension."

Beyond that, (and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html)) I don't think there will be any refrences to 4e.

[NerfTW]

Their mirror duplicate invaders, in fact:


Edition Wars: Invaders from the 4th Edition Dimension: After the events of the magazine comics, our heroes are attacked by their mirror duplicates from a brand new dimension! Can the Order defend their old way of life from these strangely balanced invaders?


And before you ask, no, the magazine comics do not take place in normal continuity. There is no point in the story in which they fit.



Beyond that, (and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html)) I don't think there will be any refrences to 4e.

The Giant has said exactly the opposite (quoted above, even). There will be jokes as they fit. Just like 3.5, and first and second edition jokes.

[factotum]

Didn't Durkon say something about Elan using ignorance as a power source? Pretty sure that was a 4e joke.

[DemLep]

Thanks for the quote of the Giant. I think that said everything.

I believe there have been a few references, but I was curious more to a world shift and The Giant clearly says there will not be one. I think his reasoning is sound too. Now that 4e has been out for a while and I have had time to play it, I think it would bring many changes to the characters.

[Kurald Galain]

Beyond that, (and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html)) I don't think there will be any refrences to 4e.
Oh, there will be plenty of references. For example, this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html). There just won't be a conversion of the main characters or mechanics.

[Blisstake]

The Giant has said exactly the opposite (quoted above, even). There will be jokes as they fit. Just like 3.5, and first and second edition jokes.

I said I don't think there will be any, not I have proof that there is no way 4e jokes have the slightest chance of showing up.

I just find it unlikely that they will.

That one comic looked more like jabbing fun at a trend growing in fantasy games, not specifically at 4e. *Shrug*

[hoff]

You know, after oots is done it would be cool to have one extra book with the order converting to 4e and doing some random adventuring. This would need to be the last book released of course (except for prequels).

[Francis Davey]

You know, after oots is done it would be cool to have one extra book with the order converting to 4e and doing some random adventuring. This would need to be the last book released of course (except for prequels).

Could be done, but I'd rather it wasn't. The ghastly thing about 4th edition, which has nothing to do with its merits or demerits as a game system, is that without a lot of house ruling, it does considerable violence to any existing world which needs a lot of explaining away.

For example, suddenly we have the Feywild, which will be used routinely by characters in combat. No-one did anything vaguely like that pre-4th ed, so any continuous narrative has to explain the sudden appearance of new races, really new effects and a complete re-ordering of the outer planes.

The opening of the Forgotten Realms handbook does just this, but it does read rather like a very forced plot device to completely change everything. Its quite different in feel from earlier changes to explain things (eg the availability of the most powerful spells).

Not a problem for a new campaign. Awkward for an older one. In the case of OOTS an awful lot that has been said and done would no longer be true (eg all references to the outer planes) and a book would have to explain how that all changed.

I wouldn't like it.

[Kurald Galain]

You know, after oots is done it would be cool to have one extra book with the order converting to 4e and doing some random adventuring.
I don't think that would be cool. Rather, it would feel like the much-maligned ending of the LOTR movie. A good story doesn't continue for long after the climatic metaplot is resolved.

[FujinAkari]

I said I don't think there will be any, not I have proof that there is no way 4e jokes have the slightest chance of showing up.

You have to admit though, saying 'I don't think there will be any more' directly after Rich said 'However, this does NOT mean that I will stop making jokes about the fact that the characters exist within a world that operates like a roleplaying game. Nor will I limit myself to either jokes about 3.5 Edition or 4th Edition. I’ll go where the humor takes me'

[Lateral]

Oh, there will be plenty of references. For example, this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html). There just won't be a conversion of the main characters or mechanics.

...What reference?

[Kish]

The reptilian creature with breasts who was "just trying to stay current" resembles a dragonborn.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The reptilian creature with breasts who was "just trying to stay current" resembles a dragonborn.

... They have dragonborn in 3.5.

[FujinAkari]

... They have dragonborn in 3.5.

Not as a Core Race. The first time many players had HEARD of Dragonborne was when 4E came out. Additionally, the physical differences are many, and she is -definately- going for the 4E description of Dragonborn in that strip.

[Cizak]

You have to admit though, saying 'I don't think there will be any more' directly after Rich said 'However, this does NOT mean that I will stop making jokes about the fact that the characters exist within a world that operates like a roleplaying game. Nor will I limit myself to either jokes about 3.5 Edition or 4th Edition. I’ll go where the humor takes me'

You care to finish that post? :smalltongue:

[hoff]

Heh, Vaarsuvius would have to be dragged kicking and screaming by other characters in order to be updated to 4e.

[FujinAkari]

Heh, Vaarsuvius would have to be dragged kicking and screaming by other characters in order to be updated to 4e.

... why? Vaarsuvius actually works in 4E. Elan and Haley don't, but Blaster Mage exists just fine

[The Dark Fiddler]

Didn't Durkon say something about Elan using ignorance as a power source? Pretty sure that was a 4e joke.

Or it was joke about Elan literally being powered by ignorance. Such jokes exist outside of RPGs, you know. (Though truly, we will never know which it is).


You know, after oots is done it would be cool to have one extra book with the order converting to 4e and doing some random adventuring. This would need to be the last book released of course (except for prequels).

The thing is, though, would this actually carry any real change? Would it be any different from the order doing some random adventuring, but staying in 3.5? Probably not, and it's unlikely to happen either way.

[Lateral]

... why? Vaarsuvius actually works in 4E. Elan and Haley don't, but Blaster Mage exists just fine
Because wizards aren't on the same ridiculous power level in 4E as they are in 3.5, and Ultimate Power™ is pretty much V's goal.

Or it was joke about Elan literally being powered by ignorance. Such jokes exist outside of RPGs, you know. (Though truly, we will never know which it is).
He said Elan uses ignorance as a 'class power source,' so I'm inclined to think it was referring to class power sources in 4e.

[hoff]

It's funny because Vaarsuvius would become a lot weaker in 4e, mostly because magic became a lot weaker in 4e.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Because wizards aren't on the same ridiculous power level in 4E as they are in 3.5, and Ultimate Power™ is pretty much V's goal.

I know that's V's goal, but V's an evoker with conjuration as a barred school. It's more likely for a blaster to get Ultimate Power™ in 4e than 3.5.

[Lateral]

I know that's V's goal, but V's an evoker with conjuration as a barred school. It's more likely for a blaster to get Ultimate Power™ in 4e than 3.5.

Not really; xe's got full transmutation access, after all, and could still attain Unlimited Arcane Power™ were xe to apply xyrself. In 4e, you pretty much have to wait until 30th level to get that kind of unlimited power; 4e's all about the limits, there's not much room for ultimate power with standardized 4e spells.

[Kurald Galain]

I know that's V's goal, but V's an evoker with conjuration as a barred school. It's more likely for a blaster to get Ultimate Power™ in 4e than 3.5.
V has learned certain lessons (from Xykon, the hard way), particularly that blasting is not the ultimate strategy for a wizard.

[theNater]

... why? Vaarsuvius actually works in 4E. Elan and Haley don't, but Blaster Mage exists just fine
I get Haley's longbow rogue not working, but what's wrong with Elan?

[Shale]

A 4E bard doesn't need a prestige class to get a charisma bonus to his physical attacks.

[Blisstake]

You have to admit though, saying 'I don't think there will be any more' directly after Rich said 'However, this does NOT mean that I will stop making jokes about the fact that the characters exist within a world that operates like a roleplaying game. Nor will I limit myself to either jokes about 3.5 Edition or 4th Edition. I’ll go where the humor takes me'

...Excuse me, what?

[factotum]

A 4E bard doesn't need a prestige class to get a charisma bonus to his physical attacks.

Of course, 4E bards didn't actually exist at the time 4th edition was released--they were added later on, so who knows what class Elan would have become if Rich had switched editions at the time?

[theNater]

A 4E bard doesn't need a prestige class to get a charisma bonus to his physical attacks.
While true, that strikes me as more "needs minor retcon" than "doesn't exist".

Of course, 4E bards didn't actually exist at the time 4th edition was released--they were added later on, so who knows what class Elan would have become if Rich had switched editions at the time?
Were it me, I'd peg 'im as a warlord. His unremarkable strength and high charisma would result in him being almost helpful as support and pretty unhelpful otherwise. It's not a perfect match, but it's about as good as it gets from PHB1.

Or were you speculating as to FujinAkari's meaning?

[gooddragon1]

Personally, I am very pleased that Rich did not convert oots outright into 4e. I understand that he's got his reasons but if it were my story I'd just say I hated 4e and be done with it.

[FujinAkari]

Personally, I am very pleased that Rich did not convert oots outright into 4e. I understand that he's got his reasons but if it were my story I'd just say I hated 4e and be done with it.

Except that Rich doesn't hate 4e, as far as we know, so it wouldn't make any sense for him to say that...

Please don't try and turn this into an edition war X_x

[gooddragon1]

Except that Rich doesn't hate 4e, as far as we know, so it wouldn't make any sense for him to say that...

Please don't try and turn this into an edition war X_x

You misread my post, I meant that I understand that he has his own reasons for not converting it to 4e as he stated in his news section a while back. I merely said that if it were my story that my reasons would have been because I hate 4e and that I would have stated that. So... yeah there we are.

[magwaaf]

god i hope not... 4e... what a joke

[FujinAkari]

I merely said that if it were my story that my reasons would have been because I hate 4e and that I would have stated that. So... yeah there we are.


god i hope not... 4e... what a joke

Again, guys... please. Edition wars are not what this thread is about, but comments like yours are only bait for them to begin. :(

[MelTorefas]

Though I *personally* prefer 4E, I am very very glad he didn't update. In addition to taking a lot of time to explain the changes, I personally think that the potential for humor in the style this comic uses is much much higher under the 3.5E rules.

[FujinAkari]

Though I *personally* prefer 4E, I am very very glad he didn't update. In addition to taking a lot of time to explain the changes, I personally think that the potential for humor in the style this comic uses is much much higher under the 3.5E rules.

Yeah... the comic would practically have to be rebooted if it switched, plus a lot of people don't know the new system, so a lot of the core audience would be left out of many of the jokes.

Although, honestly... edition has played very little role lately, OOTS is plot-driven now.

[Ramien]

While it is a good thing that OotS isn't converting to 4e, since a lot of the character dynamics would change, there would be some benefits to each character if a change ever occured:
V would no longer have to deal with Spell Resistance.
Belkar would lose the Halfling Strength penalty.
Roy would see more options overall in combat.
Elan would be able to use his Charisma much more easily.
Haley would be able to sneak attack almost anything.
Durkon would have more reliable heals, and a better back up healer in Elan.

I'm not going to go into what everyone would lose, because that's a bit more subjective in most cases. V would be upset at being brought down to the level of everyone else, most assuredly.

[Dvandemon]

DemLeP if you want ot see OoTS in 4e, it would be best to do it yourself. I don't see any reason to convert in the main storyline, especially since the example you used was literally before any semblance of a plot was even considered, as the first. Any attempt to convert now, especially considering the hassle it would take to explain all the changes, would be a rather poor move at any point in the future.