Crusader warblade build

[GrinningDemon]

What would be the cons of a crusader warblade build, I haven't heard of someone doing one so I didn't know if I was missing something, because to me it looks like them paired up would be a really devastating melee build

[Eldariel]

What would be the cons of a crusader warblade build, I haven't heard of someone doing one so I didn't know if I was missing something, because to me it looks like them paired up would be a really devastating melee build

It's fine. You generally want to emphasize one or the other to get the higher level maneuvers though. But as always, ToB is really hard to mess up with.

[Talya]

Warblade is great teamed up with a primarily crusader build, as you can take those first few golden diamond mind maneuvers (concentration to saves) and Iron Heart Surge. Then just follow a standard Crusader build.

(As a side note, taking adaptive style with any combination of Warblade + Crusader + swordsage allows you to refresh and reselect your maneuvers for all martial adept classes with an attack.)

[Essence_of_War]

Sprinking some WB levels in a mostly crusader build is a great way to pick up some really good counters. If you don't have a prestige class that advances both progressions, I'd avoid taking more than 6 levels of the dip class to ensure that you pick up 9th level maneuvers.

At low levels,

WB1/Crus1-2/WB 2/ will give you Moment of Perfect Mind, Moment of Perfect Reflex Saves, and Wall of Blades if you want it from the WB.

If you take Crusader 3-4 and then grab another WB level you can have the Moment of Perfect Fort saves also if you'd like.

Crusaders have Concentrate as a class skill also, so you've synergy with the WB counters without even having to do human paragon shennanigans.

[sonofzeal]

IIRC, Warblade schools have access to much better counters and boosts than you'll get from a Crusader's schools overall. Dipping Warblade can definitely add a bit of flexibility that way and give you more use for those Swift/Immediate actions.

Dipping Crusader as a Warblade isn't as good. It's generally more important that your strikes be higher level maneuvers, since Standard Actions are usually the biggest things you're doing in the turn, but Devoted Spirit gets some sweet Stances. Iron Guard's Glare, Martial Spirit, and Thicket of Blades are among my favorite stances in the whole book. Immortal Fortitude is also awesome, but hard to pick up. And a couple healing strikes can go a long way, depending on your definition of "encounter".

[GrinningDemon]

Devoted Spirit gets some sweet Stances. Iron Guard's Glare, Martial Spirit, and Thicket of Blades are among my favorite stances in the whole book. Immortal Fortitude is also awesome, but hard to pick up. And a couple healing strikes can go a long way, depending on your definition of "encounter".

I've played a crusader before but never got to use immortal fortitude, how good is it because I was using Thicket of Blades with a few others giving me lots of attacks when they moved

[sonofzeal]

I've played a crusader before but never got to use immortal fortitude, how good is it because I was using Thicket of Blades with a few others giving me lots of attacks when they moved
The problem with Immortal Fortitude is, IIRC, the math doesn't work out for you ever actually getting it. Unless you dip something or take Martial Stance, you never gain any new Stances at a high enough IL to qualify for it. Silly, I know.

Immortal Fortitude is pretty awesome though. Crusaders are already ridiculous to kill, and get Strikes to cast "Heal", so Immortal Fortitude is awesome IF you can force enemies to attack you. Thicket of Blades is excellent for getting that sort of attention, but often it's actually rather redundant. Ticket closes loopholes in a powerful strategy, but not every enemy can or will exploit those loopholes anyway, and enemies with reach equal to or greater than yours, or who cannot be tripped effectively, don't even care. As such, Immortal Fortitude becomes a very attractive option if you have their attention through other means. And since you can switch manuevers as a swift action, there's plenty of room for shifting around.

[Glimbur]

(As a side note, taking adaptive style with any combination of Warblade + Crusader + swordsage allows you to refresh and reselect your maneuvers for all martial adept classes with an attack.)

How so? Adaptive Style is specifically a full round action. There's also an argument on whether it actually refreshes maneuvers or not, but that is tangential to this point. I didn't find the rules for Crusader/Warblade or similar pairings, so it's possible that each initiator class has a completely separate pool of maneuvers in which case each would use their own recovery system.

[Talya]

How so? Adaptive Style is specifically a full round action. There's also an argument on whether it actually refreshes maneuvers or not, but that is tangential to this point. I didn't find the rules for Crusader/Warblade or similar pairings, so it's possible that each initiator class has a completely separate pool of maneuvers in which case each would use their own recovery system.

You're right on the full round action. For some reason I was thinking it keyed off the recovery mechanic. But, by RAW, it does still refresh maneuvers for all martial classes you have at once.

[Essence_of_War]

Also, don't quote me on this since I'm not with my books right now, but I'm pretty sure Master of 9 is an option with a WB/Crusader.

It mucks up and devours your feats, but you can do some really silly things with dual stance, and advancing both of your ILs.

[Keld Denar]

Also, the Idiot Crusader is a Warblade/Crusader hybred. Basically, you gobble up all of the low level Stone Dragon and White Raven maneuvers with a Warblade level or 3, then take a level of Crusader at which point you only have 2 maneuvers left to learn, which coincidentally match your 2 maneuvers granted. Each round, then, you'd recover all of your Crusader maneuvers at no action cost to you. Then, you take PrCs that give more maneuvers readied (which gives more maneuvers granted) and add maneuvers to your Crusader known list, and as long as you don't exceed your maneuvers granted, you'll retain the mechanic. Advance this, and you can spam White Raven Hammer every round if you so desire for stunlock.