Pathfinder: Good gestalt option for summoner or alchemsit?

[Mystify]

I am trying to figure out what would be a good gestalt build for a summoner(no archetypes). I don't think there is really anything that would improve the eidilon. Due to the specifics of this situation, this build only needs to be viable at level 20. Due to this, as summoner, I have the twin eidonlon ability, so something that would enhance the ability to fight as an eidolon clone could be useful. However, since that is limited use, it can't be the entirety of the build.
Any ideas?

Also, I have the same deal with an alchemist. While summoner has spare actions to work with, an alchemist is fully enganged in combat, in a fairly unique way. What would help an alchemist?

[Maho-Tsukai]

It depends on what you see your character doing. I don't know 100% how the eldieon works but if an eldieon could be buffed by non-summoner spells then I'd highly suggest going as a Summoner///Oracle. The Oracle is basically a cleric-list sorc with more abilities to make up for the "weaker" list. Since the cleric list is the best in the game for buffing a Summoner//Oracle could make his eldioeon absolutely frightening in battle provided non-summoner spells can buff the thing. Oh, and if eldieons can be healed via heal spells you could also have more options for minion healing. Also, Oracle has cha-based casting, making it a better choice here then the cleric due to allowing the character to be SAD instead of MAD.

The best part though is as a Summoner///Oracle you basically ARE Yuna..with both holy/white magic and a big nasty summon.

[Mystify]

Share spells only works with summoner spells, but you could still cast any buff spells that can target outsiders on it. It can be healed through normal means.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I see. In that case, Oracle is still viable as most of the spells work on "allies" and don't really specify that said allies have to be humanoid. The only issue here is whether or not an eldieon would be considered an "ally." If so, then the idea is still a good one as even without shared oracle spells you'll be able to buff your eldieon like there is no tomorow, be able to heal it in a time of need(if you want to go that way) AND you will also get to be a fullcaster, complete with those oh so lovely 9th level spells. Playing a summoner is like playing both a fighter and caster at the same time. The eldieon is an excellent fighter, but the summoner himself is a pretty good, but not great caster. Thus, taking a caster class on the other side of the gestalt makes him a VERY strong caster and out of all the cha-based caster classes the Oracle seemed to me like the best fit due to the cleric list being the most synergistic with a class that uses a minion to fight...

Also, if you don't like the Oracle then Bard may be an alternative IF Bardsong works on eldieons. Bard would also give you more and better skills, meaning that while you still would lack 9ths you could have a lot wider skill selection and bardsong is a pretty darn good buff-method. Sorcerer would be a powerful second class but would not really go as well with a summoner as Oracle or Bard would as you already have the best Arcane buffs on the summoner list.

[Mystify]

Hmm, bard's a good thought. Oracle woudl be good, but the party already has one so it would be somewhat redundant. A summoner bard gets to provide all the typical bard buffs while the eidolon goes around and lets me do something directly in combat. The bardic music should work perfectly fine on the eidilon, as it is intelligent and can speak. It also contributes to the overall sea of party buffs I suspect will be going on.

[Maho-Tsukai]

True, and you can pull weight as a skill monkey if the party lacks a rogue-type due to bards getting plenty of skills....Also, you get social skills from bard, access to glibness and happen to cast off of charisma. Have fun being the best party face ever.(If you like being the party face, that is.)

[Mystify]

and what would combo well with alchemist?

[The Glyphstone]

Depends on your build. Alchemists can be caster-buffer/support by staying pure alchemist, or horrifying melee combatants by focusing on your mutagen and PrCing into Master Chymist. Which were you going to do?

[Mystify]

Depends on your build. Alchemists can be caster-buffer/support by staying pure alchemist, or horrifying melee combatants by focusing on your mutagen and PrCing into Master Chymist. Which were you going to do?
This is actually a kind of odd situation, since I am providing half of the gestalt build after they level up. I'm not entirely sure what his long-term plans are, but I think he's planning on pure alchemist.

[grarrrg]

Twin Eidolon does not mention Bab, so I would assume the Summoner keeps his normal Bab. Assuming one side is Summoner 20, I suggest using your other half to get at least 16 Bab for the extra iterative attack.

Also, keep in mind that a Summoner doesn't need to pump Cha, they can cast all their spells with only 16 Cha, extra Cha just gets extra slots, which is less important depending on what you gestalt with.

Random suggestions.
Oracle/Sorcerer: has Cha synergy, recommend Oracle over Sorcerer, especially because Oracle can get Cha-to-AC.
Paladin: Cha synergy and combat effectiveness.Monk, save boost, minor skills boost.
Bard: Cha synergy, Bard song boosts can be handy, and Skills.
Rogue/Ranger: Skills and more combat effective.
Barb: Take the Spirit Totem powers for some Cha synergy. Rage + Twin Eidolon = pwnge.

[Mystify]

Twin Eidolon does not mention Bab, so I would assume the Summoner keeps his normal Bab. Assuming one side is Summoner 20, I suggest using your other half to get at least 16 Bab for the extra iterative attack.

Also, keep in mind that a Summoner doesn't need to pump Cha, they can cast all their spells with only 16 Cha, extra Cha just gets extra slots, which is less important depending on what you gestalt with.

Random suggestions.
Oracle/Sorcerer: has Cha synergy, recommend Oracle over Sorcerer, especially because Oracle can get Cha-to-AC.
Paladin: Cha synergy and combat effectiveness.Monk, save boost, minor skills boost.
Bard: Cha synergy, Bard song boosts can be handy, and Skills.
Rogue/Ranger: Skills and more combat effective.
Barb: Take the Spirit Totem powers for some Cha synergy. Rage + Twin Eidolon = pwnge.
but the eidion is natural weapon based, so BaB is mainly for accuracy.

[grarrrg]

but the eidion is natural weapon based, so BaB is mainly for accuracy.

True, but chances are your Eidolon with have a lot of arms anyway, so holding a weapon as a Twin shouldn't be a problem. And if you can get your Bab up to 20, then the penalty of going from a "Primary" Natural Attack to a "Secondary" is negated anyway. So if you can get a high enough Bab and afford a moderately priced weapon (or better) then you might as well go for it.

Ranger makes a good pairing for Summoner.
Summoner has d8hp, 2 skills, 3/4 Bab, and good Will save.
Ranger has d10hp, 6 skills, full Bab, and good Fort and Ref saves.
End result is d10hp, 6 skills, full bab and All good saves.

Good dips are
Barb 1, d12 hp, +10ft. movement.
Cleric 1, Channel Energy and 2 domains (pick ones that give non-level bonuses, such as Blind-Fight from Darkness domain, or +10ft. move from Travel, or +1 all saves from Protection)
Oracle 1, granted you have to take a Curse, but you can cherry pick a Revelation.
Fighter 1 or 2, quick and easy Bonus Feats.
Rogue 1 or 2, Trapfinding and Sneak attack at 2, Evasion and a Rogue Talent at 2

Here's a Sample Gestalt for a "Warrior-Summoner": While using Twin Eidolon your Str/Dex/Con is replaced with your Eidolon's, with that in mind you want Cha and a decent Con (hp). Dex is your main dump stat, it is good for NOTHING (trust me). Str can be lower, you only need it for carry capacity. Int can be bumped for more Skills, Wis can be bumped for better Will save (not necessary).
Choose Half-Elf for the Race, +2 Cha, Summoner Favored Class (all Favored bonuses go to Evolution Points)

SideA is Summoner 20
SideB:
Oracle 1 (choose Lame or Wasting, Lame can be offset later, and Wasting is a minor loss), choose either of the Revelations that grant Cha-to-AC (recommend the Lore one, as it grants Cha-to-Ref saves as well)
Cleric 1 (if you chose Lame, then pick Travel domain to gain back your movement speed)
Rogue 2, (can get a Combat feat with the Combat Trick Rogue Talent)
Ranger 6 nets you the 2nd bonus feat.
Holy Vindicator 10 (stacks with Cleric to boost Channel Energy, recommend using the 7/10 casting boost on Oracle so you don't need Wis).

End result is 4d8+16d10 hp, 19 Bab, just under 4 skills per level, (Saves depend on exact Gestalt rulings, but all should be good-to-great), 6d6 Channel Energy, 8th level Oracle Casting, and tons of feats/bonuses/tricks.