Tiefling Honesty

[hivedragon]

I find it kind of funny that Tieflings have a bonus to bluff. With the horns and pointy tails who would believe them even if they were telling the truth.

[AquilaRift]

I guess the ones who survive long enough to become adventurers have already learned to lie convincingly.
Of course, it depends on how prejudiced against tieflings the common folk are. It probably varies depending on the campaign setting.

[Giggling Ghast]

Tieflings are rare but not terribly out of place in the default 4E setting. They likely get a Bluff bonus due to their infernal heritage, as deceit is one of the main weapons of devils.

So they have horns and tails. So what? The vast majority of creatures in the D&D world are inhuman.

[Epinephrine]

Tieflings are rare but not terribly out of place in the default 4E setting. They likely get a Bluff bonus due to their infernal heritage, as deceit is one of the main weapons of devils.

So they have horns and tails. So what? The vast majority of creatures in the D&D world are inhuman.

The vast majority of creatures in our world are non-human. heck, the majority are unicellular, but we don't talk to them.

The vast majority of creatures in 4e that are humanoid and have horns and tails use deceit a weapon. Good reason not to trust them. Heck, any race that is good at lying is unlikely to be trusted, making it difficult for them.

[Giggling Ghast]

I was referring more to sentient beings. Maybe I should have clarified that.

The point I was trying to make was that having horns and tails doesn't exactly mark you as something "out of the ordinary" in the D&D world. "Why would anyone trust someone with horns and a tail?" Well, why would horns and a tail mark you as "untrustworthy" compared to people with scales, wings, or pointy ears?

And assuming that infernal heritage marks you as a liar is an association fallacy, isn't it? "Because tieflings are good at lying, they must all be liars." Should I assume that every halfling is out to rob me because halflings make good thieves? Should I assume every dwarf is a miner because dwarves usually live underground?

[Surrealistik]

Infernal heritage you mean, and devils aren't liars; they keep their word only too well.

[artstsym]

The vast majority of creatures in 4e that are humanoid and have horns and tails use deceit a weapon. Good reason not to trust them. Heck, any race that is good at lying is unlikely to be trusted, making it difficult for them. Even if this were the case, it would be better represented with higher DCs for convincing people who have heard stories about untrustworthy Tieflings, not a penalty to their bluff. And even then, as a good liar I can attest to the fact that just because someone knows that you're inherently skilled at lying doesn't make them any more likely to call you out correctly.

[hivedragon]

Infernal heritage you mean, and devils aren't liars; they keep their word only too well.

I thought 4e had done away with the Lawful Evil alignment.
I hear devils are more humanoid than demons, but not anymore honorable.

[Kurald Galain]

I find it kind of funny that Tieflings have a bonus to bluff. With the horns and pointy tails who would believe them even if they were telling the truth.

So they use a double bluff. Being distrusted all your life makes you good at those.

[Surrealistik]

I thought 4e had done away with the Lawful Evil alignment.
I hear devils are more humanoid than demons, but not anymore honorable.

Yes, but what they are remains.

Devils nearly always keep their word (and never fail to do so when it comes to formal contracts), and rarely outright lie; their 'lies' generally have more to do with omissions than actual untruths, or falsehoods.

[MeeposFire]

Yes, but what they are remains.

Devils nearly always keep their word (and never fail to do so when it comes to formal contracts), and rarely outright lie; their 'lies' generally have more to do with omissions than actual untruths, or falsehoods.

Which is where the bluff skill comes in. You need to bluff to hide the truth while you speak the truth. You don't want to easily let people know how many ways you could lose your soul in a Faustian pact.

[Tiki Snakes]

The thing with everyone knowing that Tieflings always lie is that you'll be suspicious...but they ARE good at it, so you still won't be any the wiser, most of the time. It would just encourage distrust and paranoia.

Which sounds about right, really.

[Nu]

The majority of folk in the world have probably never even seen a fiend, anyway. Horns and a pointy tail might not necessarily be associated with deceit in the DnD world.

[MeeposFire]

Besides after being fooled for centuries and then being fooled again for centuries since the tieflings started actually telling the truth just to throw you off by now you have no idea what way it is going to be and have to figure it out like you do for everybody else though tieflings are particularly good at playing the game.

Darn it this made ME lose the game...:smalltongue:

[hewhosaysfish]

Tieflings don't have a racial bonus to Bluff; that's a rumor started by the dragonborn to keep them as distrusted outsiders.

At least, that's what the Tiefling told me...

[Vknight]

It depends on your setting.
In mine the Tiefling's were the only ones not to fall under the 'Cerulian Empires' rule before the Emperor died at 130 after conquering 90% of the continent.
This makes them not trusted with the remnants of the Empire and some of its allies. They are more commonly known for there we can do it ourself nature but when willing to trade pocess a great assourtment of unique goods and mining rights

[Doug Lampert]

I thought 4e had done away with the Lawful Evil alignment.
I hear devils are more humanoid than demons, but not anymore honorable.

Have you read the description of the Evil alignment in 4th ed and that of Lawful Evil in 3.x side by side.

Hint: Fourth ed eliminated NEUTRAL EVIL, Lawful evil killed it, took its stuff, and dropped the word lawful from it's name to claim even greater prominence as THE EVIL alignment because it could. (Similar comment for Chaotic Good and Good, 4th ed killed all but the corner alignments and unaligned).

DougL

[plasma leech]

I was referring more to sentient beings. Maybe I should have clarified that.

The point I was trying to make was that having horns and tails doesn't exactly mark you as something "out of the ordinary" in the D&D world. "Why would anyone trust someone with horns and a tail?" Well, why would horns and a tail mark you as "untrustworthy" compared to people with scales, wings, or pointy ears?

And assuming that infernal heritage marks you as a liar is an association fallacy, isn't it? "Because tieflings are good at lying, they must all be liars." Should I assume that every halfling is out to rob me because halflings make good thieves? Should I assume every dwarf is a miner because dwarves usually live underground?


This right here was about what I was thinking. +1 for you :)

[Hidden Sanity]

More-so, 4e made alignment irrelevent, which is something I approve of as now there's no requirement to have other people try and define how your character should act because of what you wrote in the alignment section. (Mind you, I also have some things I like better about 3.5, but alignment is not one of them...)

But yeah, Tiefling are better at lying, even if the campaign setting is one where people are on their guard automatically when speaking with a Tiefling.

To spin a metaphor; does getting out my sword and sheild and assuming a defensive stance because I know the person I'm talking to is skilled at violence make him worse at fighting? No, he's still a better fighter, although I can make him making use of that harder...

[Seb Wiers]

Bluff covers a lot more than simple lies. It covers getting people to think what you want them to think. So you might actually tell them the truth, but do it in such a suspicious way that the actually end up believing the opposite. And for that to work, you NEED to seem suspicious.
It also covers things totally unrelated to verbal lies, like disguises, concealing physical objects, and hiding your emotions.
Han Solo was a crappy liar with a rotten reputation, but he had a high bluff skill...

[Epinephrine]

And assuming that infernal heritage marks you as a liar is an association fallacy, isn't it? "Because tieflings are good at lying, they must all be liars." Should I assume that every halfling is out to rob me because halflings make good thieves? Should I assume every dwarf is a miner because dwarves usually live underground?

Well, even if it's a fallacy, people are very good at fallacies. Note racial profiling, stereotypes, and rampant predjudice in the general population.