Writing about D&D

[HalfDragonCube]

So I've been playing D&D for around two years now and an informational essay has popped up that I thought I had another few weeks to write. It's due in on Thursday. Having decided to write on D&D, I've got some written up about the history and such, but I was wondering what others points I should look at. Going too deep into the rules is probably a bad idea.

So, in short, what do you think is best about D&D? What do you think others would find most interesting about it?

[Vladislav]

You may want to emphasize the whole point of interactive/collaborative storytelling - how it's a story with many authors, that's being created during play. Another aspect to tout is the teamwork - how characters with different abilities, and possibly agendas, can collaborate for good effect.

[Keld Denar]

I'd go into it's roots from Chainmail all the way through all present incarnations, possibly touching on the 3.x - 4e rift and the Pathfinder offshoot.

Might also be interesting to talk about public perception, including protests by Jack Chick and the counter arguements if you can find them (I know I read them somewhere). Do note that we aren't allowed to discuss Mr Chick's point of view on this board due to forum rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1), but I'm sure you can do that research VERY easily on your own with the help of google (hint hint, search for Dungeons of Darkness).

I'd definitely spend a fair bit of time on the benefits of D&D, including but not limited to: cooperation, critical thinking, imagination/creativity, social interaction, and possibly mentorship. D&D is a powerful tool, and can be used a such.

If its an essay or report, it might be interesting to start with a VERY short interaction between players and a DM. Again, emphasis on the SHORT. Just make something up, or possibly use something from a session. You want something evocative to catch the readers attention and make them interested in your report. Most essays have a quote or definition or other such opener...you could do the same.

[Dralnu]

The best thing for me is the positive elements that you gain from playing and can then use in real life scenarios.

A couple examples:
- I'm very shy and choke up in public speaking. DM'ing for 5-6 people really helps me practice my public speaking.
- D&D storytelling helps you write stories. Things like protagonist / antagonist motivation and maintaining the audience's interest are practiced in D&D, not to mention a wicked campaign could be the basis for a novel all by itself
- roleplaying can help with acting. You're playing out a role, after all. I remember watching a video on youtube where Vin Diesel explains how D&D affected his acting in an interview

I think that would be most interesting for non-D&D players.

[Techsmart]

Like the above poster said, the highlights I would talk about is that its a two-sided story, written by author and characters. The other thing I would talk about is the flexibility it offers, especially in the modern day of videogames. Even in "open" RPGs, you are still limited to what the game allows, where in DND, your biggest limiter is your imagination and DM.Take Fallout 3, for example. You can do a lot of stuff. Pick up almost anything, throw it around, shoot random people for no reason (never did this :smallamused: ), but at the same time, you can't, for example, go to your character's father and force him, by gunpoint, to return to vault 101.
If you are presenting to a group that doesn't know much about dnd, then I would definitely recommend starting by linking and comparing it to something that most/all of the group does know, and I think video games definitely qualify for that.

[Doughnut Master]

A Lincoln-Douglas debate on the Stormwrack Fallacy.

[Vladislav]

For all that's sacred, do not touch the 3.x-4e rift nor the Pathfinder offshoot with a 10' pole. Unless the essay is intended to double up as a sleeping pill, of course.


I remember watching a video on youtube where Vin Diesel explains how D&D affected his acting in an interviewOh, yeah, you may want to mention some of the "cool kids" who played D&D; "what do Will Smith, Stephen Colbert and Vin Diesel have in common?" is an instant attention-grabber.

[Keld Denar]

For all that's sacred, do not touch the 3.x-4e rift nor the Pathfinder offshoot with a 10' pole. Unless the essay is intended to double up as a sleeping pill, of course.

Why not? You can touch on it without going into detail. Simply stating that when WotC released 4e, there was a lot of conversion anxiety, and a lot of people chose to cling to the now out-of-print 3rd edition, and that fervor lead to the birth of Paizo's Pathfinder ruleset. You could pretty much go over everything you need in one paragraph, and preface it with the Chainmail through 2e history in another paragraph. Thats not exactly snore-worthy...

[HalfDragonCube]

For all that's sacred, do not touch the 3.x-4e rift nor the Pathfinder offshoot with a 10' pole. Unless the essay is intended to double up as a sleeping pill, of course.

Oh, yeah, you may want to mention some of the "cool kids" who played D&D; "what do Will Smith, Stephen Colbert and Vin Diesel have in common?" is an instant attention-grabber.

Alas, I have no 10-foot poles, although I do have a ladder nearby...

They played D&D? Definitely going to mention that.


Why not? You can touch on it without going into detail. Simply stating that when WotC released 4e, there was a lot of conversion anxiety, and a lot of people chose to cling to the now out-of-print 3rd edition, and that fervor lead to the birth of Paizo's Pathfinder ruleset. You could pretty much go over everything you need in one paragraph, and preface it with the Chainmail through 2e history in another paragraph. Thats not exactly snore-worthy...

You brilliant tub of non-Euclidean ice-cream. I'm marking you up with necropolitan (made from Create Food and Water, with the Fell Drain metamagic applied).

[Vladislav]

Best stick to the main "people play RPGs and RPGs are cool!" motiff. I don't think the world at large is ready for the "people want to play a particular PRG ruleset, but a different RPG ruleset makes them angsty" motiff.

[Keld Denar]

It isn't a 4e vs 3e vs PF vs DitV vs AFMBE vs SotC vs Fate/Fudge essay...simply acknowledge that there is a difference, and that people have their own opinions, and leave it at that. Heck, you can't even really talk about the existance of Pathfinder without mentioning the 3e/4e rift because that divide is what SPAWNED Pathfinder. If everyone loved 4e and happily converted to it like good little mindless drones, Pathfinder might not exist because the demand for it would not exist. As it was, people were clamoring for the extension of something with a 3rd edition feel, and thus Paizo saw the opportunity and invested.

Its part of the history and evolution of D&D. If you are going to talk about that (and by talk, I mean 2-3 paragraphs tops in a couple page long report, or 1 paragraph in a typical 5 paragraph essay), you almost can't avoid simply mentioning it.

[HalfDragonCube]

Best stick to the main "people play RPGs and RPGs are cool!" motiff. I don't think the world at large is ready for the "people want to play a particular PRG ruleset, but a different RPG ruleset makes them angsty" motiff.

The informational essay is more sort of factual stuff but I will be doing a talk as well. That would be a real help but knowing the class that will be receiving the talk I might have difficultly explaining what an RPG is.


It isn't a 4e vs 3e vs PF vs DitV vs AFMBE vs SotC vs Fate/Fudge essay...simply acknowledge that there is a difference, and that people have their own opinions, and leave it at that. Heck, you can't even really talk about the existance of Pathfinder without mentioning the 3e/4e rift because that divide is what SPAWNED Pathfinder. If everyone loved 4e and happily converted to it like good little mindless drones, Pathfinder might not exist because the demand for it would not exist. As it was, people were clamoring for the extension of something with a 3rd edition feel, and thus Paizo saw the opportunity and invested.

Its part of the history and evolution of D&D. If you are going to talk about that (and by talk, I mean 2-3 paragraphs tops in a couple page long report, or 1 paragraph in a typical 5 paragraph essay), you almost can't avoid simply mentioning it.

The essay is 800 words long, so I'm sort of pressed trying to fit everything in. Pathfinder and other stuff that the internet community has done will be mentioned, but will get little detail like you say.

And 'mindless drones' sounds a little harsh.

[JonestheSpy]

I think if you start off explaining how RPG's are the father of World of Warcraft and other CPRG's you'll have a lot more folks understanding what you're talking about from the start.

Sad but true.

[Vladislav]

It isn't a 4e vs 3e vs PF vs DitV vs AFMBE vs SotC vs Fate/Fudge essay...simply acknowledge that there is a difference, and that people have their own opinions, and leave it at that. Heck, you can't even really talk about the existance of Pathfinder without mentioning the 3e/4e rift because that divide is what SPAWNED Pathfinder. If everyone loved 4e and happily converted to it like good little mindless drones, Pathfinder might not exist because the demand for it would not exist. As it was, people were clamoring for the extension of something with a 3rd edition feel, and thus Paizo saw the opportunity and invested.

Its part of the history and evolution of D&D. If you are going to talk about that (and by talk, I mean 2-3 paragraphs tops in a couple page long report, or 1 paragraph in a typical 5 paragraph essay), you almost can't avoid simply mentioning it.
I beg to differ. You can, and should avoid it.

If you will look at actual successful texts and videos that are floating out there about D&D, you will see that they completely managed to avoid the type of discussion you're suggesting. At least the succcessful ones, the ones that are accepted in the non-gamer world, have done so.

Take a look at the video where Vin Diesel is talking about his D&D experiences with Jimmy Kimmel. This video is totally awesome, and did a lot for the popularization of D&D. And yet, they managed to avoid all technical details. In fact, horrible as it may sound, just from watching the video, you don't even know which edition Vin Diesel played!

Strange as it may sound, Vin Diesel never spoke about his preference of Edition X vs. Edition Y. Shocking, I know.

[Keld Denar]

I saw something pretty interesting a LONG time ago, and I don't even know if it was the legitimate thought process.

Basically, Mr Gygax and Mr Arneson were sitting around playing Chainmail when one said to the other "wouldn't it be cool if instead of commanding whole units of soldiers, you controlled just one? And instead of just controlling his movement around the board, you were inside of his head exploring his thoughts, emotions, and how he interacts with the world around him? And other players also each controlled one soldier, and you interacted with each other?"

Or something like that. Gah, I wish I could remember where I saw that.

[Vladislav]

I saw something pretty interesting a LONG time ago, and I don't even know if it was the legitimate thought process.

Basically, Mr Gygax and Mr Arneson were sitting around playing Chainmail when one said to the other "wouldn't it be cool if instead of commanding whole units of soldiers, you controlled just one? And instead of just controlling his movement around the board, you were inside of his head exploring his thoughts, emotions, and how he interacts with the world around him? And other players also each controlled one soldier, and you interacted with each other?"

Or something like that. Gah, I wish I could remember where I saw that.Yes! Now you're on to something! The transition from the battlegame to the roleplaying game is what made D&D. That's the one defining moment in history. Not the "bunch of RPGers don't like some ruleset" angst.

[Absol197]

Best stick to the main "people play RPGs and RPGs are cool!" motiff. I don't think the world at large is ready for the "people want to play a particular PRG ruleset, but a different RPG ruleset makes them angsty" motiff.

I agree with this. Yes, it is definitely possible to talk about the 3.5/4e/PF brew-haha from a consice and unbiased point of view, but if you're doing an informational essay, talking about actual mechanics and the divergent viewpoints of hard-core players really won't help shed light on what D&D is about to your audience. I'm assuming, of course, that your audience for the most part has never played a Pen-n-Paper RPG, and that your presentation is going to be around 15 to 20 minutes long. If that's true, then you've already got plenty of stuff to talk about, as other people have said:

The history of how D&D evolved;

Correcting the misinterpretations of those people who shall remain nameless who are violently against it;

Explaining the interactive storytelling aspects;

and explaining how it can help people by developing certain skills.

If I'm wrong and your presentation is a lot longer, then you can get into the more recent evolutions, but I'd still steer clear of the whole 3.5/4e thing: to people who have never played before, it won't be important or help their understanding, and it will just confuse them. However, the idea that someone had about beginning with a brief (brief!) excerpt from a game is a really good one.

[HalfDragonCube]

I agree with this. Yes, it is definitely possible to talk about the 3.5/4e/PF brew-haha from a consice and unbiased point of view, but if you're doing an informational essay, talking about actual mechanics and the divergent viewpoints of hard-core players really won't help shed light on what D&D is about to your audience. I'm assuming, of course, that your audience for the most part has never played a Pen-n-Paper RPG, and that your presentation is going to be around 15 to 20 minutes long. If that's true, then you've already got plenty of stuff to talk about, as other people have said:

The history of how D&D evolved;

Correcting the misinterpretations of those people who shall remain nameless who are violently against it;

Explaining the interactive storytelling aspects;

and explaining how it can help people by developing certain skills.

If I'm wrong and your presentation is a lot longer, then you can get into the more recent evolutions, but I'd still steer clear of the whole 3.5/43 thing: to people who have never played before, it won't be important or help their understanding, and it will just confuse them. However, the idea that someone had about beginning with a brief (brief!) except from a game is a really good one.

Alas, for my essay is to be 800 words long and the presentation is around five minutes long. Things shall be very brief, unfortunately. Thanks for the summing-up though.

[Zylle]

Since most people play video games, or at least understand the general concept of video games, it might be interesting to do a brief compare and contrast between D&D and video games. Specifically, open-ended play vs. a limited list of pre-programmed choices. The beauty of D&D is that it's not strictly bound by rules; in theory characters are only limited by what they choose to do in the context of a campaign.

[Absol197]

Alas, for my essay is to be 800 words long and the presentation is around five minutes long. Things shall be very brief, unfortunately. Thanks for the summing-up though.

O_O Only 800 words? Yikes, I haven't written anything that short in ages...yeah, your really going to have to pick and choose your topics carefully. If it wasn't for the whole honor code thing I would offer to help you write it, but that's kind of cheating, so we won't go there. Good luck though: if I could ask, could you post your essay when you get it done? I'm sure we'd all love to read it.

[JonestheSpy]

One more note - instead of worrying about editions, you may just want to point out that DnD spawned a whole gaming industry with different companies publishing a host of other games in pretty much every conceivable genre - fantasy, Sci-fi, western, horror, etc.

That's one of those facts that gamers take for granted that probably never even occurred to non-gamers that have only heard of DnD.

[Absol197]

One more note - instead of worrying about editions, you may just want to point out that DnD spawned a whole gaming industry with different companies publishing a host of other games in pretty much every conceivable genre - fantasy, Sci-fi, western, horror, etc.

That's one of those facts that gamers take for granted that probably never even occurred to non-gamers that have only heard of DnD.

Seconded. This is a much better way to go about this, and it is definitely something most people (and even a few RPGers) don't know about. It would be most enlightening :smallbiggrin:

[HalfDragonCube]

O_O Only 800 words? Yikes, I haven't written anything that short in ages...yeah, your really going to have to pick and choose your topics carefully. If it wasn't for the whole honor code thing I would offer to help you write it, but that's kind of cheating, so we won't go there. Good luck though: if I could ask, could you post your essay when you get it done? I'm sure we'd all love to read it.

I'll stick it up on Google Docs for all to see but don;t expect much. The word limit is a pain but everything seems to be that length at standard grade.

Zzzz... This squishy needs his sleep.

[raxies94]

I don't think I would go into very much detail over specific rules or editions. That will probably alienate the more mainstream people. I would definitely emphasize that all of the things about D&D being evil are stupid. I would also emphasize that it encourages creativity and etc.

[Vladislav]

Oh, yeah, you may want to mention some of the "cool kids" who played D&D; "what do Will Smith, Stephen Colbert and Vin Diesel have in common?" is an instant attention-grabber.My memory may have misled me about Will Smith; I could swear I read something about it, but now I can't find any corroborating evidence :smallconfused:

However, there's still a very impressive array of names here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_D%26D_players#Players