Age of Wonders

[Morty]

I just bought Age of Wonders 1 from Good old Games - I already have Age of Wonders 2 - and I'm planning to play the campaign. So far, I haven't had much success, but that's because I'm still remembering how to play this game.
Now, I decided to play the evil campaign as Goblins for a start. Now, according to the Age of Wonders Heaven, Goblins are rather weak, so does the Playground have any tips for playing them? General tips would also be welcome. I'm aware of mods that balance the units somewhat, but I'd rather play the game a bit before messing around with them.

[warty goblin]

Goblins, goblins, goblins...

So the thing is that goblin basic units are weaker than just about everybody than halflings. Goblin darters aren't particularly great - poison is an OK debuff but they do sod-all damage - and goblin pikemen are carefully assembled out of tissue paper. Their later level units are pretty good, particularly the bug riders and trolls. I found the wyvern riders to be pretty weak, but one or two fliers can still make an impact.

This brings us to goblin bombers. Never leave home without a few goblin bombers. They'll pretty cheap, and honestly have a life expectancy about in line with most tier one units; the difference being if used right you can get two or three kills with 'em. My preferred strategy for goblins is:

1) Make a ton of 'em. They're cheap, so set your lower level cities to auto-produce them in absolute waves.

2) Don't worry too much about casualties. What counts in AoW is taking cities, and if doing that involves chewing up a lot of your fodder, that's completely OK.

3) Play a bit defensively during tactical battles. Your goblin pikemen have first strike, so they hit first when defending. There's no reason to rush them into battle, instead form them up tight with the darters behind and to the wings. Keep the bombers well protected and force the enemy to rush. If you see a cluster of foes, get a bomber in there, and try to poison as many enemies as possible with the darters.

4) Sieges are easy, you have bombers to get through the walls, and big bugs if you want a longer lasting solution.

5) Use ally races as soon as possible. Orcs in particular are excellent, since orc swordsmen are legitimately scary.

[Morty]

Hm, thanks for the advice. I haven't had a very high opinion on bombers thus far - having played through the demo earlier - but I suppose I wasn't using them to their full potential. I'll do as you suggest and see how it works out. I tend to play defensively in turn-based strategies anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem.
There's an interesting-looking mod out there called Warlock's Mod. It tweaks the units' stats slightly - for instance, it increases the goblin spearmen's attack by 1, reduces the darters' defense by 1 and increases the bombers' HP by 1. But as I said, I'll wait before trying any mods.

[LansXero]

Mods aside, what you absolutely want to be careful with is your sphere selection. Water and Air are SO much better than anything else that there is really no contest. Chain Lightning changes battles, and ice shards can spell doom for low level enemy heroes.

Speaking of heroes, you should feed them exp as much as you can, specially in the campaign your "main" hero. I dont remember if this is possible during the campaign, but if you can start with a custom hero toss away as many optional bonuses as you can for lifestealing. You cant get it from normal level up (I dont think so anyways) and its absolutely amazing on a hero. Couple that with magic weapon and other buffs and your hero will be able to solo whole stacks of tier1 - 2 units. Through sheer counter-attack abuse (which is toned down a lot in AoW 2) at halfway through the campaign you will be able to solo most of everything really (including air elementals/wraiths) only getting trouble with dragons and enemy kings.

As for goblins, bombers are often not worth it. Darters are nice, but they move very slowly. Use your evilness to get Orcs as soon as you can: Black Shredeer is great for defending, and Warlords are brutal. Big Bugs are very good too, and remember you can use them to tunnel through soft underground. They also get poison which is great. However, level 4 cities must always be Orkified; red dragons are way way better than karraghs or incarnates; but level 3 cities can be used to produce dark elf riders or big bugs. Or if you get a human town DONT MIGRATE IT. Migrate a level 4 city to human as soon as you can to get those amazing, almost-cheating Air Galleys.

[warty goblin]

Karraghs kick Red Dragon ass, in pretty much every possible way. They're at least as fast, hit harder, and are nearly as tough. On top of that the Red Dragon has to use Fire Breath, and there's a lot of things that are resistant or immune to fire. IIRC the Wraith is the only thing with Physical Immunity, so it's a lot less likely that the Karragh is going to end up useless in a fight. Really they're the ultimate shock cavalry, and should be used as such.

The rest of the orc lineup is definitely better though. Orc heavy cavalry is a lot of fun and the warlord is frankly unfair, although I never really found much use for the assassin. Usually seemed more efficient to knock the enemy's walls in rather than rush a few units over them to be pointlessly butchered. Well, at least until I had two level 30 melee focused heroes, at which point they started doing the slaughtering.

[LansXero]

Karraghs kick Red Dragon ass, in pretty much every possible way. They're at least as fast, hit harder, and are nearly as tough. On top of that the Red Dragon has to use Fire Breath, and there's a lot of things that are resistant or immune to fire. IIRC the Wraith is the only thing with Physical Immunity, so it's a lot less likely that the Karragh is going to end up useless in a fight. Really they're the ultimate shock cavalry, and should be used as such.

The rest of the orc lineup is definitely better though. Orc heavy cavalry is a lot of fun and the warlord is frankly unfair, although I never really found much use for the assassin. Usually seemed more efficient to knock the enemy's walls in rather than rush a few units over them to be pointlessly butchered. Well, at least until I had two level 30 melee focused heroes, at which point they started doing the slaughtering.

Considering heroes can climb walls as well, yeah, they are just unfair.

The thing about red dragons is that they are flyers, and as such inmune to anything melee. A karrack will take hits more often, which means you have to slow down, and need a wall-breaker, which also slows you down. Dragons need neither, and are pretty competent to boot. And fire breath doesnt allow a counterstrike and will eventually kill anything. Although if you are going up against azracs and what not then yeah maybe karracks might be a good idea. Or you could just summon air elementals who are physical inmune and kill anything without a magic attack and lots of stuff that have it (like priests who die in a punch).

The use ive found for assassins is more or less upgraded darters. Kings tend to be hard as hell to break down, so debuffs help there. Also, they are good to use as fast catapults/rams, to take undefended walled towns quicker :D

[warty goblin]

Considering heroes can climb walls as well, yeah, they are just unfair.

Although to be fair, by the point in the campaign where you've got access to multiple high level heroes, you need a little unfair.


The thing about red dragons is that they are flyers, and as such inmune to anything melee. A karrack will take hits more often, which means you have to slow down, and need a wall-breaker, which also slows you down. Dragons need neither, and are pretty competent to boot.
The thing is you'll probably need a wall breaker anyways, and by the time you can start to get dragons, you are likely to already have access to fast moving wall breakers like big beetles. Hauling along battering rams sucks, but pretty much every race has a better option available.

As for slowing me down very much, I never noticed Karraghs to do that. They might eat my priest's heal, but that's what the priest is there for, and Karraghs make superb hero killers - even a melee spec hero's gotta take that kind of hitting power seriously and they'll eat a spellcaster alive.


And fire breath doesnt allow a counterstrike and will eventually kill anything. Although if you are going up against azracs and what not then yeah maybe karracks might be a good idea. Or you could just summon air elementals who are physical inmune and kill anything without a magic attack and lots of stuff that have it (like priests who die in a punch).

Magic weapon is a universal spell and IIRC castable in tactical battles, anybody can have Magic Strike. And it's not just Azracs who give Red Dragons issues - Dwarven Firstborn render them completely useless. I distinctly remember destroying an entire multi-hex orc host with like three dragons using Firstborn. The dragons just flapped around while my lava-dwarves beat the orc leader into bloody pulp.

And my experience is that flight is less powerful the later in a match one gets. Early on sure it can be absolutely decisive, but later when there's lots of leveled up archers and ballista running around? Unless it's something really, really broken like the human Airship, it makes a lot less difference.


The use ive found for assassins is more or less upgraded darters. Kings tend to be hard as hell to break down, so debuffs help there. Also, they are good to use as fast catapults/rams, to take undefended walled towns quicker :D
My experience, at least in singleplayer, is that killing enemy heroes and leaders is seldom the hard part. It's murdering my way through the swarms of units the cheating AI vomits forth. By the time I've done that I'll have two or more full-size armies of gold medal units. Since the AI doesn't usually go for melee heroes, the dude on the horse is seldom really a problem.

[LansXero]

Although to be fair, by the point in the campaign where you've got access to multiple high level heroes, you need a little unfair.

Maybe at the very end, although ive found myself not even bothering to produce units and just breezing through with an army of heroes + air elementals for the last missions.


The thing is you'll probably need a wall breaker anyways, and by the time you can start to get dragons, you are likely to already have access to fast moving wall breakers like big beetles. Hauling along battering rams sucks, but pretty much every race has a better option available.

Dragons on their own can take out most swarms of units, but I agree on karraghs being quite deadly. I dont usually even produce priests at all, as lifestealing + not being hittable (flying, incorporeal, etc)+ healing water takes care of my units hp. Thats one plus of goblins, that big bug. They are just so lovely and buggy. And its so sad to see them die, all squashes out >_<

Back to the thread topic, I wouldnt really bother with tier 1 units after the very first levels. Cheap to create means nothing, their upkeep does add up, and against a tier 3 stack they will die pointless deaths. Rush Tier 3 as fast as you can (heroes at around level 8 - 10 can probably solo most early found towns to let you get at least tier 2 right away).


As for slowing me down very much, I never noticed Karraghs to do that. They might eat my priest's heal, but that's what the priest is there for, and Karraghs make superb hero killers - even a melee spec hero's gotta take that kind of hitting power seriously and they'll eat a spellcaster alive.

Most of the times with leaders they are buffed to hell and back. Not much in terms of items, but they tend to have 10 on all stats and 30ish health, which combined with elemental damages is enough to give them a run for their money. They also tend to have archery, but Ive never found archers much of a threat to be honest.


Magic weapon is a universal spell and IIRC castable in tactical battles, anybody can have Magic Strike. And it's not just Azracs who give Red Dragons issues - Dwarven Firstborn render them completely useless. I distinctly remember destroying an entire multi-hex orc host with like three dragons using Firstborn. The dragons just flapped around while my lava-dwarves beat the orc leader into bloody pulp.

Casting it in tactical would be a waste of mana though, since it can be on by default. And the AI very seldomly bothers to do that. And besides, air elementals are no wimps so even with it they can put up a decent fight. And the AI is dumb like that; wouldve been simple to make all the orcs flee before the slowdworfs caught up and slow them down with the dragons (since they get to bite you without a counter-attack if you go through them).


And my experience is that flight is less powerful the later in a match one gets. Early on sure it can be absolutely decisive, but later when there's lots of leveled up archers and ballista running around? Unless it's something really, really broken like the human Airship, it makes a lot less difference.

Flight at later levels is basically mandatory. Youll have so many cities and so many enemies surrounding you and sending pesky little stacks of units all over the place that you need to be able to bypass those mountains / rivers / whatever. Specially azracs (elephants are sooo annoying) with their damned concealed riders and elephunks.


My experience, at least in singleplayer, is that killing enemy heroes and leaders is seldom the hard part. It's murdering my way through the swarms of units the cheating AI vomits forth. By the time I've done that I'll have two or more full-size armies of gold medal units. Since the AI doesn't usually go for melee heroes, the dude on the horse is seldom really a problem.

How odd, Ive had the entire opposite experience: swarms die easily by throwing themselves against heroes or getting chain-lighthinged/frost hailed/fire breathed/counter-attacked to death. Its catapults/melee heroes that put up a fight, and even those die to ice shards and concentrated fire.

[Caustic Soda]

@Heroes vs. units: How important units are really depends on the build of your hero(es). if you have a hero with Regeneration/Life Stealing, Lightning Strike and high defense, you can take on practically anything with the occasional healing thrown in. Especially if you get the pike that gives First Strike in one of the early missions. A properly built hero is capable of blitzing through the entire latter half of the campaign, once you've gotten to def 10 and can start adding movement and hit points. That's not challenging, but I find being insanely overpowered to be an amusing part of PC games.

[Morty]

Again, thanks for the advice. Discussions regarding Karraghs vs. Red Dragons aside, I'll try to get Orcish cities as soon as possible to spice up my armies with Orc units.
As for heroes, I gave the custom hero I made Poison Darts, Marksmanship I and Leadership at the beginning.

[The_JJ]

Again, thanks for the advice. Discussions regarding Karraghs vs. Red Dragons aside, I'll try to get Orcish cities as soon as possible to spice up my armies with Orc units.
As for heroes, I gave the custom hero I made Poison Darts, Marksmanship I and Leadership at the beginning.

... pain. :smallwink:

More seriously, I tend to rush Spell Casting with my primary and try to keep a melee fiend hanging around. Later I tank up my main (HP/Defense) and then give them both Wall Climbing. The really important thing when fighting the AI is aggro, and the big old range on Spell Casting V means you can win that one every times.

I wouldn't worry about race selections, the campaign will change things up on you as you progress.

[LansXero]

Again, thanks for the advice. Discussions regarding Karraghs vs. Red Dragons aside, I'll try to get Orcish cities as soon as possible to spice up my armies with Orc units.
As for heroes, I gave the custom hero I made Poison Darts, Marksmanship I and Leadership at the beginning.

Ouch :P

bard skills are also kinda useful if you can get them; sometimes you can get good units to stick around through bard skill stacking :D (although I dont remember which units have it).

a Lizardman hero is very useful, as they can walk on water. Squishy, but the added mobility is a life saver, specially in a couple of missions.

Also, try to get a handful of ladys of pain / spider queens to seduce enemy heroes. That way you get some surprisingly good ones :)

[warty goblin]

Ouch :P

bard skills are also kinda useful if you can get them; sometimes you can get good units to stick around through bard skill stacking :D (although I dont remember which units have it).

a Lizardman hero is very useful, as they can walk on water. Squishy, but the added mobility is a life saver, specially in a couple of missions.

Also, try to get a handful of ladys of pain / spider queens to seduce enemy heroes. That way you get some surprisingly good ones :)

Actually Ladies of Pain* may be the best counter to lizardmen units in the game. Lizards have really, really low magic resist, and Seduce checks Resistance, not Defense. On one of the scenario maps, Kinslayers IIRC, I had vast armies of lizards held in thrall by like four or five Ladies of Pain.

I'd imagine my army was the first one in history to worry about keeping up a good supply of fetishwear.

*Spider queens would also work, but are a lot more expensive. You can get like three LoP for one spider queen, which means a lot more lizards in gimp suits.

[LansXero]

*Spider queens would also work, but are a lot more expensive. You can get like three LoP for one spider queen, which means a lot more lizards in gimp suits.

In a sense queens are less expensive for heroe-enslaving, as they dont get one-shotted when seduce fails (ladys are fragile). And they get web and wall climbing so they arent totally useless if you run out of stuff you want to seduce.

[Kane]

I don't know if you're into modding, but there is a mod-set I distantly remember called 'warlock', or something. Among other things I recall it doing, it prevented invincible Defense 10 heroes,(Which I didn't like because I liked wandering around with a a few cavaliers and my three heroes, and destroying everything,) and the ability to move units as a group. IE, select a group, send them all forward, like an RTS except they all move in turns.

Obviously not enough to make something inherently worth it, but there was other stuff. I recommend looking it up, at least. And don't worry, you get plenty of chances to change races in the campaign.

P.S.: Lizardmen are bros, Highmen are so horrible it's not even funny. Seriously. Don't even think about them.

[Morty]

I'm aware of the Warlock's Mod and I mentioned it in this thread. It looks interesting, but I will wait before modding the game.
Also, I finished the first mission of the Evil campaign, which was predictably easy. So far, so good. It also turns out I gave my hero Archery rather than Poison Darts; I'd given him PD in an earlier attempt. I'm still not sure what to think of Goblin Bombers, I feel they ought to punch through a gate or wooden wall in one hit since you have to sacrifice them and they're much more fragile than a battering ram.

[Kane]

I'm aware of the Warlock's Mod and I mentioned it in this thread. It looks interesting, but I will wait before modding the game.
Also, I finished the first mission of the Evil campaign, which was predictably easy. So far, so good. It also turns out I gave my hero Archery rather than Poison Darts; I'd given him PD in an earlier attempt. I'm still not sure what to think of Goblin Bombers, I feel they ought to punch through a gate or wooden wall in one hit since you have to sacrifice them and they're much more fragile than a battering ram.

Yeah, but you don't have to count on them surviving the battle! Just a trip to the wall.

And whoop, sorry. My reading comprehension apparently is lacking. Maybe I should slow down next time... Or, you know, not be reading three things at once.

[tribble]

what is this game? It sounds wonderful.

[factotum]

what is this game? It sounds wonderful.

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/age_of_wonders

[LansXero]

I'm aware of the Warlock's Mod and I mentioned it in this thread. It looks interesting, but I will wait before modding the game.
Also, I finished the first mission of the Evil campaign, which was predictably easy. So far, so good. It also turns out I gave my hero Archery rather than Poison Darts; I'd given him PD in an earlier attempt. I'm still not sure what to think of Goblin Bombers, I feel they ought to punch through a gate or wooden wall in one hit since you have to sacrifice them and they're much more fragile than a battering ram.

Goblin campaign ending text was pretty neat. As was mentioned, you will get to choose sides again at some point (not much of a spoiler) so you get more than 2 actual endings to the overall campaign (I think).

Bombers can actually sometimes punch through wooden walls iirc, but most of the time they will get a catapult / ballista to the face and die without a point. Battering rams are also way too slow and not usually worth it; if you can get a T2 town just get a catapult out. Or better, give wall-climbing to your heroes and units will rush out to kill it (I guess the AI thinks thats smart because its the only one who can get past the wall and so once it dies you automatically lose. Use that to lure them out and destroy them).

[The_JJ]

Also, Dwarf Giants.

And fliers. Stacks of fliers, everywhere. The things that can hit fliers tend to be squishy and have ranges shorter than your fliers move speed, and it's oh so easy to just mob the leaders.

[Cogwheel]

Also, Dwarf Giants.


There are two things wrong with that sentence, and both of them are all of it.

[LansXero]

There are two things wrong with that sentence, and both of them are all of it.

But they exist :P And are one of the best units in the game. Now, they arent gigantic dwarves (those are the T4 unit), but rather Giants that have allied with the dorfs. And its a good idea, but being a Goblin leader morale may be an issue. Then again, if your main hero itself is neutral you can probably carry good units along without much problem.

The good thing about flyers is that in town sieges you can have your melee units hang back, run in with flyers, kill everything ranged (and their melee cant do anything about it because they dont fly) and get out, then reset the fight and have the fight on your terms.

[tribble]

I can't upgrade my towns to produce advanced units in the After the Fall scenario. Is this normal? The basic units are cool and all, but I want artillery and cavalry.

[LansXero]

Not normal at all; After the Fall is the large, 12-races scenario, right? You should be able to do it assuming you have enough gold :S Whats the problem? Order not registering? You should start at a T1 town and very near both a T2 and T3 town. T4 towns are spread around as well.

[tribble]

Not normal at all; After the Fall is the large, 12-races scenario, right? You should be able to do it assuming you have enough gold :S Whats the problem? Order not registering? You should start at a T1 town and very near both a T2 and T3 town. T4 towns are spread around as well.

I don't know why it's happening. I do have the 250 gold it says I need to upgrade, but when I push the upgrade button it says the upgrade level is maxed. There are towns of different sizes scattered around the start locations, but all of them have only tier one units.

[Athaniar]

I haven't played much of the original AoW, but the sequel (and standalone expansion pack) is one of my favorite games. It's just epic.

[LansXero]

I don't know why it's happening. I do have the 250 gold it says I need to upgrade, but when I push the upgrade button it says the upgrade level is maxed. There are towns of different sizes scattered around the start locations, but all of them have only tier one units.

Ahhh well, if its a small town you cant make it "grow" the way you can in AoW 2. They stay fixed at the size they are forever. You can only upgrade in bigger towns, to get access to the more advanced units.

[tribble]

Ahhh well, if its a small town you cant make it "grow" the way you can in AoW 2. They stay fixed at the size they are forever. You can only upgrade in bigger towns, to get access to the more advanced units.

oh. so taking those bigger towns is kind of a priority. Many thanks.

[warty goblin]

oh. so taking those bigger towns is kind of a priority. Many thanks.

Yeah, pretty much the first order of business is always to grab a two or three hex city. The four hex ones are usually well defended enough that it's better to wait or, if possible, buy off the defenders.

[Morty]

I learned an important lesson while playing Orcs on a single map: don't leave your cities unguarded because even if they're away from enemy lines, a neutral hero will come and snatch it.
Also, while Age of Wonders 2 is arguably better designed, balanced and overall better done, I'm really not fond of the mage-lords it revolves around.

[tribble]

I learned an important lesson while playing Orcs on a single map: don't leave your cities unguarded because even if they're away from enemy lines, a neutral hero will come and snatch it.
Also, while Age of Wonders 2 is arguably better designed, balanced and overall better done, I'm really not fond of the mage-lords it revolves around.

Ugh, those bloody heroes. I spent an entire level up buying turn undead 2 to deal with an undead independent hero. It was totally worth it, my leader just rode up to him, stunned him and slaughtered him while he was helpless:smallsmile:.


Also, I just pulled off Parson's withdraw gambit:smalleek:.

[LansXero]

I learned an important lesson while playing Orcs on a single map: don't leave your cities unguarded because even if they're away from enemy lines, a neutral hero will come and snatch it.
Also, while Age of Wonders 2 is arguably better designed, balanced and overall better done, I'm really not fond of the mage-lords it revolves around.

Yeah, not having your main hero around and depending on mage towers was a bit of a letdown, but being able to found towns and grow them was a huge step forward imho. Still, not fond of the new combat mode. What was so wrong with unlimited counter-attacks? xD

[Morty]

Yes, as I said, game mechanics are on the whole better. I just don't like the mages, mage towers and the other assorted features.