I'm a Sad Necromancer ...

[mootoall]

Is there any way around the 20 HD limit per monster of Animate Dead? Besides, of course, when one is raising dragons?

[Herabec]

You could use the crafting skills to create an item specifically for increasing the amount of undead controlled. My necromancer (once he was relatively high level) crafted a rod that allowed him unlimited HD of raised undead, provided he had enough bodies.

[mootoall]

Not exactly what I was looking for. Sorry if I was unclear, but it was specifically this clause* that I was looking to get around, in the "Skeleton" entry.


* If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.

[Maho-Tsukai]

The Dread Necromancer has a class feature called undead mastery which, among other things, allows them to control more undead then anybody else in the game by using their cha modifier(cha being their casting stat)to boost their HD control cap to absurdly high levels. There is also a cleric spell called general of undeath, which can add your caster level to your HD limit. The Dread Necro can also pick this up with Advance Learning to get an even more absurd HD control limit. Also, don't forget the old standby of desecrate.

EDIT: Ninja'ed. Sorry this was not what your looking for.

[Herabec]

Ah.. Well, that can't be avoided, really... Though, as a wizard, you should sit down with your DM and research a more advanced version of Animate Dead that doesn't have to deal with that limitation. That is one of the more annoying aspects of being a Necromancer - very few things can be animated once you reach the mid to high levels without doing a bit of research and home brewing.

[WinWin]

Draconomicon has rules for animating Dragons. They may exceed the 20hd cap (referenced in statblocks of undead dragons from memory).

[mootoall]

*Le Sigh* 'Tis as I feared then. I suppose my dream of having a skeletal Hecatoncheires is forever out of my reach ...

Edit:
Draconomicon has rules for animating Dragons. They may exceed the 20hd cap (referenced in statblocks of undead dragons from memory).

As I mentioned in the OP, I was already aware of the dragons.

[hydroplatypus]

There are spell creation rules for a reason. Just create a higher level animate dead, with a higher HD limit. If your DM agrees to let you do this then problem solved.

[mootoall]

There are spell creation rules for a reason. Just create a higher level animate dead, with a higher HD limit. If your DM agrees to let you do this then problem solved.

And therein lies the problem. For simply creating a necromancer build in my free time, there is no DM. I can reasonably assume "Hmm, surely a refluffed War Cross of St. Cuthbert isn't out of the question," but "Hmm, surely 70-odd HD skeletons won't bother anyone" is a bit more unreasonable.

[WinWin]

lol. Time for bed. Only thing I can think of is Yathrinshee, a very bad prestige class with an ability to immediately animate anything they kill.

No limits are mentioned with regards hit dice or numbers of creatures under their control.

However, it is not a spell, it is a class feature...On an otherwise poor dual progression spellcasting class that is restricted to Drow followers of a minor FR deity.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Pale Master capstone ability. If you kill something with it, then it becomes a zombie under your control, that does not count against your control cap. No limitations of HD are mentioned. After a couple of weeks, zombies decay into skeletons.

[Telonius]

If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.

So don't use Animate Dead.


A much more potent spell than animate dead, this evil spell allows you to create more powerful sorts of undead: ghouls, ghasts, mummies, and mohrgs. The type or types of undead you can create is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.

You may create less powerful undead than your level would allow if you choose. Created undead are not automatically under the control of their animator. If you are capable of commanding undead, you may attempt to command the undead creature as it forms.

[ubergeek63]

Is there any way around the 20 HD limit per monster of Animate Dead? Besides, of course, when one is raising dragons?

they only mentioned part of it: dread necromancer with 18 cha gets (4+4)*lvl hd controlled ... if you can get them all in an area and precede the animate with desecrate it doubles that.

[mootoall]

So don't use Animate Dead.

I believe that refers to the table as regards that entry, not to skeletons/zombies.


they only mentioned part of it: dread necromancer with 18 cha gets (4+4)*lvl hd controlled ... if you can get them all in an area and precede the animate with desecrate it doubles that.

Doesn't remove the restriction of the skeleton template, does it?

[Hazzardevil]

I reccomend a level in Comtemplative at level 11, it gives a Domain for your god, if you can Worship Affluf or the Blood of Vol then you can choose the Deathbound Domain which allows you to control 3 times your HD in undead normally. Combined with Desecrate, which I think you can get with Arcane Disciple, you can control 6 times your HD. Very nice isn't it?

[mootoall]

I reccomend a level in Comtemplative at level 11, it gives a Domain for your god, if you can Worship Affluf or the Blood of Vol then you can choose the Deathbound Domain which allows you to control 3 times your HD in undead normally. Combined with Desecrate, which I think you can get with Arcane Disciple, you can control 6 times your HD. Very nice isn't it?

Oh, absolutely nice. Add in whatever the name of that rod in the MiC is and it's 9 times HD. Doesn't help with my particular problem, though.

[Hazzardevil]

Oh, absolutely nice. Add in whatever the name of that rod in the MiC is and it's 9 times HD. Doesn't help with my particular problem, though.

Sorry, though you had the problem of not having enough Undead to use at a time.

[mootoall]

Sorry, though you had the problem of not having enough Undead to use at a time.

No, unfortunately that's not a problem at all. I wouldn't have any problem getting NI 1 HD Kobold skeletons. It's the ineffectiveness of getting a single, really big bruiser that's my biggest stumbling block.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

No, unfortunately that's not a problem at all. I wouldn't have any problem getting NI 1 HD Kobold skeletons. It's the ineffectiveness of getting a single, really big bruiser that's my biggest stumbling block.

There is no cap on the HD for creating undead with the Pale Master's capstone ability, as long as they fail the Fort save. So simply blast them with a few negative levels, and maybe some Con damage while you're at it, then BAM! It's yours! No matter how big it is!

[Godskook]

Try Bloodhulk from MMIV, they require a lot of HD slots to use, though.

[mootoall]

Yes Pale Master's capstone is a solution. It's also a crappy PrC. I'll check out your solution, Godskook.

[Psyren]

Yes Pale Master's capstone is a solution. It's also a crappy PrC.

Oh no, 9/10 casting, however will we violate reality now.

[The Cat Goddess]

Yeah, Pale Master is a crappy PrC... compared to absurdly broken PrCs. Compared to 10 levels of, say, Wizard... it's not bad at all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes Pale Master's capstone is a solution. It's also a crappy PrC. I'll check out your solution, Godskook.

Let's see... 9/10 casting, so we lose a single casting level. That is a consideration, but not a deal breaker.

Then we get Animate Dead as a spell-like ability that doesn't require material components... so you can keep your control cap filled on the house

Next, we have a Control Undead SLA that does not offer a save, even if the duration is limited. It gives you enough time to use some other form of control on it.

Undead Armor Affinity isn't much to write home about, although the Wight Shield is a pretty handy way to deliver negative levels.

The Undead Graft nets you a +4 Inherent Bonus to Str, which isn't bad. It also nets you a few interesting touch attacks, nothing new to the Dread Necro, although these are a bit more powerful.

But really, the key here is the Cohort, since most people ban the leadership feat. So you can have your ghostly Bard using DFI as a class feature. How is this NOT cool?

And, of course, the capstone. Unlimited undead. Unlimited power.

[mootoall]

Whoops, silly me. I mistook Pale Master for ... Gosh, I forget its name. The one that's a worse Mystic Theurge. This is the one that has the deadest of dead levels, but is still quite passable. My mistake, I'm sorry.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Whoops, silly me. I mistook Pale Master for ... Gosh, I forget its name. The one that's a worse Mystic Theurge. This is the one that has the deadest of dead levels, but is still quite passable. My mistake, I'm sorry.

Ahh, you were thinking about True Necromancer... yea, that one is pretty much the iconic definition of 'trap'.

[mootoall]

Yeah, that's my bad. Pale Master is much better, though it must be weird to level up into the first level. "Wow, we've all got such awesome new powers after our individual side quests! I'm so glad I picked this PrC! Hey, Raisey McDeaderson, what'd you get?" "... I got a rock." Still, in the long run a not too shabby solution.

[Godskook]

I'll check out your solution, Godskook.

Find it yet?

[Milo v3]

I was annoyed by the same problem so I created this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Animate_Dead,_Greater_(3.5e_Spell)). Not 100% sure if I leveled it right but Still fixes the HD problem.

[Coidzor]

I was annoyed by the same problem so I created this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Animate_Dead,_Greater_(3.5e_Spell)). Not 100% sure if I leveled it right but Still fixes the HD problem.

That was the question I was posing to myself as I was reading the thread, how level adjustment are the caps worth?

...And did you have a minor form of awaken undead as a rider in there too?

[mootoall]

Find it yet?

I have, and it's definitely an interesting solution. They seem like they just end up huge bags of flesh, though, and the size limitation bothers me a bit, but it seems workable. Thanks!