Raptorans

[Mithral88]

I have a player for a D&D game I'm DMing that wants to be a raptoran. Now, this player is pretty inexperienced with D&D, and I'm inexperienced at DMing. {{Scrubbed}} The thing I want to know is, should I let an inexperienced player RP a race that the ability to fly, or do you think I shouldn't allow raptorans period?

[The Dark Fiddler]

The thing I want to know is, should I let an inexperienced player RP a race that the ability to fly, or do you think I shouldn't allow raptorans period?

Do you think there will be any problem with him playing a race that can fly? I mean, it's exactly like any other race, except it can fly, and flying isn't that big a problem (also, isn't it very limited until you gain a few levels?).

Whether or not to allow them is really based on whether they fit in your game.

[Avalon2099]

Personally, if shes inexperienced but YOU feel confident in coralling what that Raptoran can do, then give'er. She might just want to try flying and see how fun it is! Gods know thats how I was when I got my fist set of wings. From an RP standpoint it can be liberating and amazing, if your concerned about her fleeing the scene from combats, get creative. Fireballs always work, sure they are mean but they work. Bolas being tossed to tangle her wings.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Raptorans don't give you flying immediately, you get gliding and a bonus on jump checks. At 5 HD (5th level), you can fly for a number of rounds per day equal to your con modifier (minimum one), at 10 HD, you can fly as easily as walking.

[Lateral]

Raptorans don't get true flight until level 5, and it's limited until level 10. Nothing wrong with that; Fly is temporary and is usable at 5th level, and Overland Flight lasts pretty much the whole day at 9th level, one before full flight. Is it good? Yes. Is it within reason? Yes.

[Big Fau]

Raptorans don't give you flying immediately, you get gliding and a bonus on jump checks. At 5 HD (5th level), you can fly for a number of rounds per day equal to your con modifier (minimum one), at 10 HD, you can fly as easily as walking.

Clarifying something: At 5HD, you can fly at will, but can only stay in air for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier.


Raptorians would suck if they could only fly for Con rounds/day.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Clarifying something: At 5HD, you can fly at will, but can only stay in air for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier.


Raptorians would suck if they could only fly for Con rounds/day.

They can still fly for no more than ten minutes each day. Although if they fly one round and glide the rest, it only counts as one round of flying.

[Big Fau]

They can still fly for no more than ten minutes each day. Although if they fly one round and glide the rest, it only counts as one round of flying.

10 minutes is 100 rounds, which is plenty of time for combat flight (and still leaves some spare minutes for utility).

[FMArthur]

Raptoran are just a solid and fairly well-designed race. There isn't really anything incredibly powerful about their abilities; they provide convenient flight, but it's pretty basic for spellcasters to be able to fly and fly better.

One thing that is not totally simple are the maneuverability rules on flight in the DMG. Make sure to read them because I'm pretty sure they don't have perfect maneuverability. If your group is unusually low-op and low-magic, flight and in general 3-dimensional movement can be a bit clumsy to deal with at first, but you pick it up and it doesn't pose extraordinary challenges for a DM.

[Hiro Protagonest]

10 minutes is 100 rounds, which is plenty of time for combat flight (and still leaves some spare minutes for utility).

They still have to land every few rounds, you can't fly for ten consecutive minutes.

[Greenish]

They still have to land every few rounds, you can't fly for ten consecutive minutes.Land or Glide. The latter only loses you 5' of height (for moving 20', which is enough to stay in the air regardless of manoeuvrability).

[Rei_Jin]

The other thing to remember is that at level 5, a Druid gets Wildshape. That's 5 hours of flight if they want to choose a bird of some sort for their form. Compared to the Raptoran, you've got nothing to worry about.

The main question really is why they want the Raptoran, and what class/classes they intend on putting on it. If it's just for roleplay value, then there really shouldn't be a problem with it. If they want to slap a Dragonborn Template on it, and go for something cheesy... that's a different matter.

Of course, with both you and the player being inexperienced, this is unlikely.

[FMArthur]

The other thing to remember is that at level 5, a Druid gets Wildshape. That's 5 hours of flight if they want to choose a bird of some sort for their form. Compared to the Raptoran, you've got nothing to worry about.

The main question really is why they want the Raptoran, and what class/classes they intend on putting on it. If it's just for roleplay value, then there really shouldn't be a problem with it. If they want to slap a Dragonborn Template on it, and go for something cheesy... that's a different matter.

Of course, with both you and the player being inexperienced, this is unlikely.

There is nothing "cheesy" to do with Raptoran in particular or a Dragonborn Raptoran, and nothing about them that is even remotely powergamey. Do you normally forbid people from playing what race they want because they don't have a good "roleplay" reason for it? Do you force every player who doesn't try to fit their race into their personality to play a human?

A Dragonborn Raptoran is probably the best representation of a "half dragon" in the game, and not in an unbalanced way - just not horrifically weak. Is it powergamey to not kick yourself in the groin for dubious benefits when there's an easier way?

[Rei_Jin]

*Sigh*

I was making a comment more about roleplay versus optimisation. If they're doing it for roleplay reasons, then it should be all fine. If they're doing it for optimisation reasons, then the DM should be wary.

An inexperienced DM can have great troubles with even a decent level of optimisation, so it is something that they should look out for. I know it's not a bad combo by any stretch of the imagination, but unless you're changing the fluff of both the Dragonborn and the Raptoran, it feels cheesy to me. That's a person thing, not a general statement about the system that allows it.

[The Dark Fiddler]

...but unless you're changing the fluff of both the Dragonborn and the Raptoran, it feels cheesy to me.

I'm kind of curious as to why you think that way, could you possibly explain? I truly can't see any reason you'd think that way, but I could just be missing something.

[Cerlis]

yes pretty much between 5th lvl and 10th lvl you use flight to get some height, glide a few rounds till you get low, then fly up again. even if you can only "fly" for 2 or 3 rounds at a time thats enough time to get in some air maneuvers. but not enough to be really abusable. as long as you make sure to avoid things like putting something up real high and have the pcs go through complex tunnels to get to it. and the raptoran just fly up...you should be fine. just think as if you had a character with a great bonus on jumping and nothing should get screwed up.

[Big Fau]

I'm kind of curious as to why you think that way, could you possibly explain? I truly can't see any reason you'd think that way, but I could just be missing something.

The only thing cheesy I can think of was posted on the old WotC Theoretical Optimization boards, and it involved becoming a Dragonborn, the DCFS, and Elder Evil to get infinite feats (which really is cheesy, but easily prevented).

[Greenish]

unless you're changing the fluff of both the Dragonborn and the Raptoran, it feels cheesy to me.Because all raptorans hate Bahamut? :smallconfused:

[Draz74]

Probably just because he's seen it too many times. Like Dragonborn + Water Orc ... there's nothing inherently contradictory about its flavor, but the worldbuilder part of me just has to wonder why there's this massive demographic of Dragonborn Water Orcs wandering the world, when both Dragonborn and Water Orcs are otherwise rather rare. :smalltongue:

[Cadian 9th]

I think they are referring to the " Dragoon " build, using Raptoran/Dragonborn for double damage in diving attacks.

There's always a place to start learning advanced aspects of DnD. Heck, your wizard/cleric etc has flight by the time Raptoran/Dragonborn gets proper flight.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think they are referring to the " Dragoon " build, using Raptoran/Dragonborn for double damage in diving attacks.

...Now I want to play raptoran with a lance, maybe riding a wyvern.

[Cadian 9th]

...Now I want to play raptoran with a lance, maybe riding a wyvern.

It's really fun, just make sure you have ghost touch/pierce magical concealment to easily counter a lot of tricky magicy people. :smallbiggrin:

[Big Fau]

I think they are referring to the " Dragoon " build, using Raptoran/Dragonborn for double damage in diving attacks.

Like double damage is anything to freak out over. Even on a charger build, it's not very impressive (and requires a lot of free room to work against some enemies).

[Cadian 9th]

Yeah. Although, a diving charge doesn't require much horizontal movement, you can do it from adjacent by jumping up and gliding down.

[Big Fau]

Yeah. Although, a diving charge doesn't require much horizontal movement, you can do it from adjacent by jumping up and gliding down.

I think there was a clause about being 10ft above your target, which is a problem in some situations (most premade dungeons have very small rooms by comparison).

[Rei_Jin]

The issue for me is that yeah, I see a lot of them. Considering that the reason that Raptorans came about is that their ancestors made a pact with Air Elementals for their wings, it seems odd that so many of them would abandon their heritage to make vows to Bahamut and become all scaly and genderless.

Theoretically, there should be whole tribes by now of these sexless Scaly Raptorans that are unable to reproduce except by "assimilating" other Raptorans into the flock. Literally. Could be a plot device maybe, something akin to the Borg