Prolonged Spell [3.5]

[Godskook]

Ok, we all know that Persistent spell is a bit on the broken side, even without reducers. To me, I see part of the issue for this is that Persistent spell adjusts the duration of spells blindly, without concern for what the original balancing factors were in the duration. It doesn't care if it was an hours/level spell or a 1-round spell. This is an attempt to give a more balanced replacement that would be more readily usable in games.

Prolonged Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisites: Extend Spell
Benefits: A prolonged spell uses a higher level spell slot according to its original duration and the number of duration increments it is increased by. Each increment adds 2.5 to the spell level(round down in this case).

{table=head]Previous duration|New duration
capped|uncapped
fixed duration|treat as if a capped spell of the nearest unit
rounds/level|minutes/level
minutes/level|10minutes/level
10minutes/level|hours/level
hours/level|24 hours[/table]

[Quellian-dyrae]

I've tinkered with a similar idea before. It's not a bad option, but the thing you have to watch out for is, in my experience, a rounds/level spell is the sort of thing you basically cast in an encounter, and it probably won't last into the next one unless there's very little time between them. A minutes/level spell, though, if you know you're coming up against a series of encounters, you can load up several and they'll likely last through the whole thing.

Basically, do the clerics in your game have things like Shield of Faith and Conviction up frequently, or do the mages have things like Mirror Image and Greater Heroism? Because with this feat, at the upper levels, you can expect them to have things like Divine Power, Righteous Might, Greater Invisibility, Greater Blink, Bite of the X, and similar powerhouse buffs up similarly often.

[Godskook]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'm aware that persistent spell is powerful, and this feat attempts to nerf that. Are you saying it didn't do enough, or what, exactly?

[NeoSeraphi]

What about spells that have a fixed duration, like Giant Size (1 min, not min/level)

[Godskook]

What about spells that have a fixed duration, like Giant Size (1 min, not min/level)

Sorry, forgot to write that down more explicitly. They'd be handled just like capped spells would.

[NeoSeraphi]

Sorry, forgot to write that down more explicitly. They'd be handled just like capped spells would.

Okay, so for my example, which would it be? When a wu jen gets Giant Size at 13th level, rounds per level is 13 rounds, which is closer to one minute than minutes per level. So which would apply? Would it become minutes per level or 10 minutes per level?

[Welknair]

What if you have a CL over 24 and you Prolong an hour/level spell? Does it reduce the duration? :smallconfused:

[Godskook]

Okay, so for my example, which would it be? When a wu jen gets Giant Size at 13th level, rounds per level is 13 rounds, which is closer to one minute than minutes per level. So which would apply? Would it become minutes per level or 10 minutes per level?

RAI is that the first increment makes it minutes/level rather than 1minute. I'm not sure how to explain that well, though. And you can't apply 2 increments to that spell pre-epic.

[DracoDei]

Giving fixed duration spells an extended duration is fine in theory, but requires some interpritation in practice with spells such as Heat Metal and Storm of Vengence.

I think Quellian-dyrae's point was that the difference between 10 minutes and 24 hours is not as great as you would think when the "5 minute work day" (or even just short dungeons) is in effect.

[Godskook]

That's a good point on those odd-duration spells, but I'm more worried about how the change effects commonly persisted spells(mirror move, lesser vigor, wraithstrike) and if the new adjustment is at least semi-balanced when applied to them.

The 5-minute workday isn't something I'm trying to balance against, cause frankly, its a metagame problem that good DMs should already be dealing with by teaching their players that their day isn't over simply cause they want it to be.

[Yitzi]

cause frankly, its a metagame problem that good DMs should already be dealing with by teaching their players that their day isn't over simply cause they want it to be.

Indeed. (By the way, I'm wondering if you have any particular tricks you use to do that. An intelligent enemy force should definitely be able to take advantage of the PCs not moving quickly, the question is what's the best way to do that.)

[Godskook]

Indeed. (By the way, I'm wondering if you have any particular tricks you use to do that. An intelligent enemy force should definitely be able to take advantage of the PCs not moving quickly, the question is what's the best way to do that.)

Timelines are a big one for that. Its hard to justify resting for the night when a treasured NPC's(read: one the PCs like) life will be lost in 4 hours.

[Cieyrin]

Timelines are a big one for that. Its hard to justify resting for the night when a treasured NPC's(read: one the PCs like) life will be lost in 4 hours.

PCs liking NPCs? You're playing with a different set of munchkins than I'm used to, then. :smalltongue:

As for the feat itself, I think it's a bit overly modular. What I would do along the thoughts that you have for this is to just have it increase duration by one step, like you have, leave capped and fixed spells alone (they're that way for balance reasons) and just slap a +2-3 SL on it. Simple to apply, reduces on weirdness and keeps the short duration spells suitably short while making them last for more than one battle, which is the aim I see you having with this.

Basically, it's as follows:

Prolonged Spell
Your spells are far more persistent than they used to be.
Prerequisites: Extend Spell
Benefits: A prolonged spell increases the duration, as per the following table. Spells with fixed durations cannot be prolonged.
A prolonged spell uses a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.

{table=head]Previous duration|New duration
rounds/level|minutes/level
minutes/level|10minutes/level
10minutes/level|hours/level
hours/level|24 hours[/table]

If you want to keep multiple steps available, I'd take a page from Enhance Spell and add a Special section that allows taking the feat multiple times and allow another step for +2 SL.
Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[NeoSeraphi]

Will the poor spells with days/level durations get no love from anyone? Can't we make Prolonged Spell turn a days/level duration into weeks per level?

[Yitzi]

Timelines are a big one for that. Its hard to justify resting for the night when a treasured NPC's(read: one the PCs like) life will be lost in 4 hours.

True, although that only helps with certain types of adventures. Still, that makes two options (time-critical missions and the enemy using the time wisely.) Another option, better for dungeon crawls, would be if the dungeon was recently discovered...the PCs were the first to get there, but if they don't clear it out quickly competitors will be showing up.


PCs liking NPCs? You're playing with a different set of munchkins than I'm used to, then.

PCs who don't care for NPCs (and make that known) are vulnerable to all sorts of nasty attacks...:smallbiggrin:


leave capped and fixed spells alone (they're that way for balance reasons)

Same is true for other spells. I don't think upgrading a 1 minute spell (say, Divine Favor) to 1 minute/level increases its power substantially more than upgrading a 1 round/level spell (say, Divine Power) to 1 minute does.


Will the poor spells with days/level durations get no love from anyone? Can't we make Prolonged Spell turn a days/level duration into weeks per level?

Doesn't really seem all that necessary to me.

[Cieyrin]

Will the poor spells with days/level durations get no love from anyone? Can't we make Prolonged Spell turn a days/level duration into weeks per level?

As Yitzi said, I wouldn't consider them 'poor' by any means. Extend 'em and call it good.


PCs who don't care for NPCs (and make that known) are vulnerable to all sorts of nasty attacks...:smallbiggrin:

Perhaps, I'm just saying some munchkins don't see NPCs as much more than adventure hooks for more power. The consequences for such often goes over their heads. Not saying I'm such a munchkin, just that I've dealt with a few of them. :smallwink:


Same is true for other spells. I don't think upgrading a 1 minute spell (say, Divine Favor) to 1 minute/level increases its power substantially more than upgrading a 1 round/level spell (say, Divine Power) to 1 minute does.

It just makes some spells (Heat Metal, for example) require less thinking and adjudication, as mentioned earlier. I'd just prefer to avoid that bullet if at all possible.