Critique my crusader

[pffh]

Just wanted to let the good playground and your general mastery of all things d&d go over my crusader to chest if there are any glaring flaws that I missed and for any useful suggestions.

I'm aiming for a support/tank character in a (for now) melee heavy party

We have a couple of rules that I believe are relevant. The first is everyone has the option to take two flaws, that are often homebrewed, for two feats. I have a command word that works as a swift action cast suggestion spell on me (cl 8 dc 13+cha mod) and a -5 to all will saves against suggestion, charm person, dominate person and other similar spells.

The second is that we have moved the crusader stance progression to first stance on level 1, second on level 5, third on level 11 and fourth on level 15

Warforged crusader:
Starting level 2

Rolled stats were 17, 16, 14, 14, 14, 12
Str: 17
Con: 18
Dex: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

Feats:
1: Adamantine body, improved initiative, extra granted maneuver
3: power attack
6: combat reflexes
9: combat expertise
12: improved trip
15: not sure
18: also not sure

For the 15th and 18th feat I might go for one of the ToB tactical feats but if there are any better choices then I'll gladly follow that advice.

Stances:
1: Martial spirit
5: Thicket of blades
11: Aura of chaors OR aura of perfect order ( haven't decided if chaotic good or lawful good fits the character better)
15: Immortal fortitude

Skills:
balance to 5 ranks
Craft armorsmithing: max
intimidate: max
diplomacy: couple of ranks every now and then
Knowledge history and religion: A rank now and then.
Spot and listen: Left overs

Stuff:
I currently have a guisarme, armor spikes and my slam attack to cover all damage groups and to allow me to attack near and far. I also have a repair belt (it functions exactly like a healing belt only for warforged and gives +2 to craft instead of to heal)

Suggestions for armor and weapon enchants along with other useful magic items that are useful for a me over the levels would be greatly appreciated

Almost all first party books are available for item and feat suggestions but if possible I'd like to keep things to the completes, ToB, core and MiC so my DM doesn't have to go through dozens of books.

Thanks in advance :smallsmile:

[pffh]

Forgot maneuvers:
1: Crusader strike, leading the attack, charging minotaur, stone bones, douse the flames
3: Mountain hammer
4: No exchange:
5: White raven tactics
6: Exchange crusader strike for Revitalizing Strike
7: Divine Surge
8: Exchange douse the flames for Covering strike
9: Flanking manouver
10: Exchange stone bones for Elder mountain hammer
11: Rallying Strike
12: Exchange leading the attack for War leaders charge
13: Swarming assault
14: Exchange Mountain hammer for Ancient Mountain hammer
15: White raven hammer
16: Exchange charging minotaur for Greater divine surge
17: Strike of Righteous Vitality
18: Exchange Revitalizing strike for Mountain tombstone strike
20: Exchange War leaders charge (OR rallying strike) for War Master’s Charge

[Person_Man]

I notice that your Charisma is cruddy. That's not necessarily a bad thing for a Crusader, but it does rule out using maneuvers that require a Save DC and minimizes the usefulness of a few of your class abilities. You might want to make your stats:

Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 17

You get Cha to your Will Save, so dumping Wis isn't a worry. At low levels your To-Hit and Damage are only at -1 compared to your configuration. But you can can use any maneuver you want. You could invest in UMD cross class and reasonably use wand by mid levels. And at mid levels you can also pick up some X to Y (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) mojo to pump anything else you want. I'm particularly fond of Bard/Crusader with Snowflake Wardance, Song of the White Raven, Combat Panache, and Slippers of Battle Dancing, and some Inspire Courage boosting equipment.

I'm of the opinion that Extra Granted Maneuver is a waste. Having one more random option in your bag really isn't going to expand your tactical choices that much. You are a tank that smacks stuff. You do that pretty much every round regardless of which maneuvers you happen to randomly draw.

Similarly, Improved Initiative is a waste for a Crusader. You're not going to have optimized Dex, and it really doesn't matter that much to a tank if you act slightly sooner in the Initiative order.

Adamantine body is a great low level feat, but DR 2 is pretty meaningless once you get to mid levels. I think there's a superior Cold Iron Body feat somewhere that grants Spell Resistance, though I think it's from some 3rd party book.

Power Attack is a great mid level feat, but doesn't really "kick in" until level 6ish, and even then it generally needs/wants Shock Trooper and/or damage multipliers to be effective.

If you're going to take Combat Reflexes + Combat Expertise + Improved Trip, then you should take them together at first level. Separately each is mostly useless, so you don't want to start in on a combo but not really benefit from it for 6 levels.

You might also want to consider Knock-Down (so that you get a free Trip after every successful maneuver), Goad, Imperious Command, Leap Attack, and Mage Slayer.

[Keld Denar]

Manuevers look solid, as do stances. Keep in mind that you have your Slam attack which can be used to attack adjacent foes, which is nice.

As far as weapon choices, if you have access to a party caster (arcane or divine), a +1 Spellstoring weapon is nice. If its an arcane caster, go +1 Bloodstone instead (with the option of upgrading to +1 Bloodstone Spellstoring). The temp HP from Vampiric Touch will help you tank. Two other enchants I'd suggest would be Collision (MIC) for +5 flat damage that multiplies on a crit and either Sacred (LM) or Holy (DMG). Sacred is cheaper (+1 equiv instead of +2), but is selective in the things it boosts against (undead +1d6, evil outsiders +2d6), while Holy is indiscriminatory (+2d6 vs evil period). Both align the weapon to good, which is good vs things with DR. You can't swing Mountain Hammer every round. On top of that, you can get some fun utility from the Whirling and Brutal Surge enhancements from the MIC. Whirling gives 3/day Whirlwind Attack, situational but fun, while Brutal Surge allows you to initiate Bullrushes 3/day when you hit, which can be used tactically to provoke AoOs from foes with proper positioning or occasionally knock people off cliffs.

For armor, I'd go +1 Freedom. FoM all day long for 36,000g, thats cheaper than the ring. You want to lock people down, which you can't do if you get locked down. So...victory. I'd also look into buying a +1 Animated shield at some point, just for the extra points of AC that never hurt.

[pffh]

You might also want to consider Knock-Down (so that you get a free Trip after every successful maneuver), Goad, Imperious Command, Leap Attack, and Mage Slayer.

Where can I find these? Also would you the recommend skipping power attack completely and placing knock down as the level 3 feat?

[DarthCyberWolf]

I would also like to add that Defensive Sweep works well with Thicket of Blades. AoO if they move, AoO if they don't. :smallamused:

The prerequisite is BAB +15 so it won't be an early thing, but something to look forward to later.

[Person_Man]

Where can I find these? Also would you the recommend skipping power attack completely and placing knock down as the level 3 feat?

Knock-Down (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Knock-Down) is strait out of the SRD. It was in several 3.0 sources, got an official 3.5 update, and was specifically included in the Open Game License material.

Keeping the spirit of what you want, my suggested feat progression is:

1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
3: Knock-Down
6: Power Attack
9: Open
12: Open
15: Open
18: Open

For your open feats you can basically either focus on more damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087) (Leap Attack, Battle Jump, Improved Bull Rush->Shock Trooper) or more control (Blind-fight->Mage Slayer, Goad, Imperious Command) or a mix of both.

If you choose to focus more on damage, then you might want to dump the above feat progression in favor of:

1: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Knockback
3: Combat Reflexes
6: Shock Trooper
9: Open
12: Open
15: Open
18: Open

This would be slightly more efficient in terms of feats and keeping your To-Hit high, but Knockback requires Powerful Build or Large+ size, which would require switching races to be a Goliath or Half Giant or Half Ogre, which would involve Level Adjustment.

[Big Fau]

I notice that your Charisma is cruddy. That's not necessarily a bad thing for a Crusader, but it does rule out using maneuvers that require a Save DC and minimizes the usefulness of a few of your class abilities.

Do remember, he is a Warforged. And Crusaders have like three maneuvers in Devoted Spirit that offer a save. Counting the 9th level strike, which really won't need it. With only two uses of Smite/day, all he really needs to worry about is his Will save.


@OP: Have you read the Crusader handbooks (here and over at BG)?

[pffh]

This would be slightly more efficient in terms of feats and keeping your To-Hit high, but Knockback requires Powerful Build or Large+ size, which would require switching races to be a Goliath or Half Giant or Half Ogre, which would involve Level Adjustment.

Knockdown looks very interesting but I can't find it on d20srd (we disallow everything on dndwiki if we can't find it in a book or on d20srd). Also I'd like to keep adamantine body and extra granted maneuver (I like the extra option and faster refresh :smallsmile:) in there and my backstory is quite reliant on me being a warforged so knockback is a no go :smalltongue:.

Would something like:
1: Adamantine body, extra granted manouver, combat expertise
3: improved trip
6: knock down
9: Combat reflexes
12+: other stuff that I'll worry about later

Work?


I would also like to add that Defensive Sweep works well with Thicket of Blades. AoO if they move, AoO if they don't. :smallamused:

The prerequisite is BAB +15 so it won't be an early thing, but something to look forward to later.

That also looks very interesting mind be a contender for my level 15 slot.


Do remember, he is a Warforged. And Crusaders have like three maneuvers in Devoted Spirit that offer a save. Counting the 9th level strike, which really won't need it. With only two uses of Smite/day, all he really needs to worry about is his Will save.

Am I missing something on the level 9 devoted spirit maneuver I don't see a save anywhere in it.


@OP: Have you read the Crusader handbooks (here and over at BG)?

I've browsed a couple of times over the one here but not the one on BG so I'll do that now.

[Keld Denar]

Try looking here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm).

I was in Sword and Fist, but got updated for 3.5 in Dieties and Demigods, for some reason. It's not a god feat though, so you don't need a divine rank to take it. Its just stuck in a wierd place. I wouldn't wait till level 9 to take Combat Reflexes, though. It'll be more useful to you at lower levels.

[Big Fau]

Am I missing something on the level 9 devoted spirit maneuver I don't see a save anywhere in it.

Though the strike itself doesn't say it allows a save, Heal does allow one if used offensively or on an unwilling target (basically undead). This brings up a few problems based on the DC though.

[pffh]

Try looking here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm).

I was in Sword and Fist, but got updated for 3.5 in Dieties and Demigods, for some reason. It's not a god feat though, so you don't need a divine rank to take it. Its just stuck in a wierd place. I wouldn't wait till level 9 to take Combat Reflexes, though. It'll be more useful to you at lower levels.

Huh that's indeed an odd place.

So reflexes on level 1 and move expertise/trip/knockdown up a slot?

[Draz74]

I agree with you that Extra Granted Maneuver is a great feat, but I don't think you need it right from Level 1. I'd wait and take EGM after your main strategy (tripping) is already up and running.

Other than that, looks pretty good to me.

I dunno about the Armor of Freedom thing. Yeah, it's cheaper than a ring, but it also means you'll be stuck with just +1 armor until high levels, and can never use some of the other sweet armor enhancements out there.