Psicrystal within a psicrystal (psinception)

[Flickerdart]

Psicrystals can get feats, so they can take Hidden Talent (to gain a Manifester Level) and Psicrystal Affinity (to get a psicrystal). Bestow Power can be used to give them extra PP. But can we get the psicrystal the ability to manifest Solicit Psicrystal, to pass off a power it's concentrating on to its own psicrystal? Can we thus create an infinite psicrystal concentration chain?

[Cog]

I'm not sure Hidden Talent works that way. You have a manifester level while manifesting the power it gives, but it doesn't say anything about having one the rest of the time.

[Psyren]

Hidden Talent won't work. It has the following caveat:


(This is not a manifester level, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by taking psionic classes.)

The only way I know of to give a psicrystal a ML is post-epic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#psicrystalPower), and even that has dodgy wording.

[The Shadowmind]

[Host] feats from Complete Psi, will give a manifester level equal to 1/2 HD, their psionic feats so taking wild talent might be needed. And with the 1/2 ML each psi-crystal would be weaker that the last.

[Flickerdart]

Alright, awesome, so Host feats solve that problem. A 10th level psion can bestow 5 PP on his ML5 psicrystal for the manifesting of Solicit Psicrystal. That still leaves getting the actual power. Isn't there some sort of Imbue Psicrystal with Psionic Ability, or did arcane casters get al the good stuff again?

[Psyren]

[Host] feats from Complete Psi, will give a manifester level equal to 1/2 HD, their psionic feats so taking wild talent might be needed. And with the 1/2 ML each psi-crystal would be weaker that the last.

Huh? Psicrystals don't qualify for those:


Host feats can only be taken by a character who is acting as a physical host to another psionic entity.

They're for Kalashtar, Inspired, and Eberron Elans.

[Flickerdart]

Any Construct templates that give PLAs then?

[sreservoir]

phrenic? can you do that to a psicrystal, though?

[Jack_Simth]

phrenic? can you do that to a psicrystal, though?

Let's see....
“Phrenic” is an inherited template that can be added to any nonmindless creature that does not already have the psionic subtype

The Psicrystal doesn't have the Psionic subtype (which seems... odd...), but you do have a problem: There's no specific player-accessible rules method for adding an arbitrary template to a Psicrystal. There's a few options for adding specific templates to specific critters (Improved Familiar can get you a Celestial standard familiar, or a fiendish standard familiar; the Exalted Companion feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds can get you an Animal Companion with the Celestial Template; the Vile Death spell from Spell Compendium can apply the Fiendish template to an Undead; Mantle of the Icy Shroud from Frostburn can add the Cold subtype to a creature, and so on), but I don't think there's an "arbitrary template" spell out there.

[Qwertystop]

Psicrystals are intelligent, right? Why can't they just take a Psion level?

[Grendus]

Because they advance hit dice, not levels. So having them take psion levels is out of the question.

[DiBastet]

"They're for Kalashtar, Inspired, and Eberron Elans"

Nothing really says that any creature can't be a host for a psionic creature in any case. The kalashtar thing is another sentence, in addition to the host part. If it was only for kalashtar it would be in the pre-requisite.

As the feats say in the benefit that an entity takes residence in your flesh, instead of "the entity in your flesh becomes stronger" as would be the case for inspired and kalashtar and inspired. The sentence doesn't even mention elans, but eberron ones clearly are host to another creature.

As the sentence is an obvious example only, I see no reason to say they don't qualify. I wouldn't allow it in my games, but RAW, there's nothing saaying a psycristal can't be a host.

[Psyren]

"They're for Kalashtar, Inspired, and Eberron Elans"

Nothing really says that any creature can't be a host for a psionic creature in any case.

I never said it was restricted to those three - what I meant was that they are the only races that qualify for them automatically.


As the sentence is an obvious example only, I see no reason to say they don't qualify. I wouldn't allow it in my games, but RAW, there's nothing saaying a psycristal can't be a host.

You need a RAW way to make it happen though. A... psionic ghost or something.

[dextercorvia]

Not my original creation, but it is a cute trick.

1. Take Psicrystal Affinity, have ML6
2. Take Improved Psicrystal twice. Your Psicrystal now has 8 HD.
3. Your Psicrystal's 6th level feat should be Leadership, for a Psion cohort (level 6) who takes PA and IP twice.
4. ???
5. Profit.

[DiBastet]

You need a RAW way to make it happen though. A... psionic ghost or something.

The vengeful psionic ghost of a unborn daughter of a powerful psionic turned unholy scion and then forcefully aborted by a paladin suffering a moral dillemma and exorcised, "looking" for a new mother to live inside?

Creepy...

[Psyren]

Not my original creation, but it is a cute trick.

1. Take Psicrystal Affinity, have ML6
2. Take Improved Psicrystal twice. Your Psicrystal now has 8 HD.
3. Your Psicrystal's 6th level feat should be Leadership, for a Psion cohort (level 6) who takes PA and IP twice.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Step two is the problem. Improved Psicrystal boosts your ML for the purposes of determining your psicrystal's abilities, but its HD is not an ability and thus would not be affected.

[dextercorvia]

Wouldn't feats count as an ability? To determine feats you need to know HD, which is equal to the adjusted ML.

I can't defend the trick properly, as it isn't my own.

[Fax Celestis]

The Psicrystal doesn't have the Psionic subtype (which seems... odd...)

They don't have a PP pool, which is the mechanical requirement for having (Psionic).

It's dumb, in my estimation, but:


The Psionic Subtype

Any creature with psionic powers has the psionic subtype. A psionic creature can be born with the subtype or can gain the subtype during its life.

A creature meeting any one of the following criteria has the psionic subtype:

* Creatures with a power point reserve, including characters who have levels in a character class that grants them a power point reserve or creatures who have the Wild Talent feat.
* Creatures with psi-like abilities, including characters who have racial psi-like abilities.
* Creatures that have spell-like abilities described as “psionics.”


So, technically, hitting something with bestow power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bestowPower.htm) would give it the psionic subtype temporarily, if you could figure out a way to get it an ML on its own.

[Psyren]

Making them (psionic) is easy - both Hidden Talent and Wild Talent do that. The hard part is giving them a Manifester Level.

Once you do that, they can take Psicrystal Affinity and combo out. To my knowledge, this is not possible pre-epic without DM fiat.