[3.5] Medium BAB Prestige Classes

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

There is an annoying trend that PrCs that give magical or pseudo-magical abilities to melee types all seem to be medium BAB (Elemental Warrior, Shadowblade, Suel Arcanamach, Divine Crusader etc.). Is there any similar PrCs (that can be entered by non-casting characters) that have full BAB? Also, would it significantly upset the balance of these PrCs to boost them to full BAB?

I know that in a 10 level PrC we are only talking 3 BAB, but it's still annoying, since full BAB is kind of the niche for melee types. I know you can UMD a Divine Power device, or somehow get Divine Power as a domain spell, but I'd still rather be able to be full BAB without relying on spells or items.

I guess this is part of why ToB is popular, allowing (some) classes to access pseudo magical abilities and retain a full BAB. Same with Duskblade (and to a much lesser degree, Hexblade).

All thoughts welcome - T.

[Ashram]

Hey all,

There is an annoying trend that PrCs that give magical or pseudo-magical abilities to melee types all seem to be medium BAB (Elemental Warrior, Shadowblade, Suel Arcanamach, Divine Crusader etc.). Is there any similar PrCs (that can be entered by non-casting characters) that have full BAB? Also, would it significantly upset the balance of these PrCs to boost them to full BAB?

I know that in a 10 level PrC we are only talking 3 BAB, but it's still annoying, since full BAB is kind of the niche for melee types. I know you can UMD a Divine Power device, or somehow get Divine Power as a domain spell, but I'd still rather be able to be full BAB without relying on spells or items.

I guess this is part of why ToB is popular, allowing (some) classes to access pseudo magical abilities and retain a full BAB. Same with Duskblade (and to a much lesser degree, Hexblade).

All thoughts welcome - T.

Since it can be entered by a diverse array of classes, I'd LOVE for assassin to be full BAB.

But, the typical idea is that if you have any sort of casting in a class, it gimps your martial abilities as a form of "balance". Depending on what the PrC does, I wouldn't think it would hurt to give certain ones full BAB, as long as the DM understands what this means and how best to do it.

[Thurbane]

Actually, I just noticed a couple of PrCs in BoVD that fit the bill: Mortal Hunter and Warrior of Darkness are both full BAB...

[dextercorvia]

Pious Templar is full BAB, gets mettle and some paladinesqe casting. It's a good class if you want to make a Holy Warrior with your own definition of Holy.

I think it is a safe bet that a Warrior PrC with 4ths and below could be Full BAB and not be any higher tier than Paladin or Ranger.

Suel Arcanamach would probably be fine. I want to say Divine Crusader would be okay, but that might make it too hard for a Warrior to not jump paths. The prereq's are just too easy, and 9ths too tempting.

[Keld Denar]

Pious Templar is pseudomagical (Paladin-lite) and full BAB. Occult Slayer has some definite SUs, and its full BAB as well.

EDIT: Nobody ever takes more than 4 levels of Suel Arcanamach anyway, so its only a loss of 1 BAB. Typically you take 4 levels of SA, 5 levels of AbjChamp (full BAB), and 1 level of Spellsword (also full BAB) to cap it at 10/10 levels. Sprinkle 4 levels of Dragon Disciple on top of that at the cost of 1 more BAB (leaving you at 18/20), but gaining 2 more 5th level spells + 4 points of Str and 2 NA.

[navar100]

Pious Templar is pseudomagical (Paladin-lite) and full BAB. Occult Slayer has some definite SUs, and its full BAB as well.

EDIT: Nobody ever takes more than 4 levels of Suel Arcanamach anyway, so its only a loss of 1 BAB. Typically you take 4 levels of SA, 5 levels of AbjChamp (full BAB), and 1 level of Spellsword (also full BAB) to cap it at 10/10 levels. Sprinkle 4 levels of Dragon Disciple on top of that at the cost of 1 more BAB (leaving you at 18/20), but gaining 2 more 5th level spells + 4 points of Str and 2 NA.

On paper. In practice you can't take the DM out of the picture. Some DMs could very well object to multiclassing prestige classes willy nilly. Either take all levels in one and finish it before you start another or none at all.

[Pechvarry]

The problem is when you realize said suel build is still weaker than an equal-level wizard, or even sorcerer. So DM panic-attacks don't really figure in.

On another note, I think if Pious templar had turning, it could almost entirely replace paladins. Since good templars cast from the paladin list, it appears they can even grab Battle Blessing. While I'm on this silly train of thought, they can dip sacred exorcist 2 levels earlier than a paladin could and um... you know, not have any divine feats to use turn undead on.

[Sir Homeslice]

On paper. In practice you can't take the DM out of the picture. Some DMs could very well object to multiclassing prestige classes willy nilly. Either take all levels in one and finish it before you start another or none at all.

If we go by this metric then this entire 3.5e section is rendered moot and unusable, since there has been DMs who have banned all books aside from Core, and DMs who have banned no books aside from Core. Therefore, we're not allowed to discuss anything whatsoever.

[Coidzor]

Suel Arcanamach definitely doesn't make sense without full BAB.

Divine Crusader doesn't either, but even if it might be OP for DC to have full BAB, very few would stay in it all the way, since one what really wants to do is go into something like Sovereign Speaker with it to get something approaching a spell list.

[Amiel]

The Prestige Paladin (a 15 level prestige class) from Unearthed Arcana has full BAB and increases divine spellcasting at every odd level, in addendum to pseduo-magical abilities.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

PrCPally is the opposite of the subject of this thread as it requires casting to enter and could be entered by a straight cleric who is giving up casting for full BAB and other toys.

[TroubleBrewing]

On paper. In practice you can't take the DM out of the picture. Some DMs could very well object to multiclassing prestige classes willy nilly. Either take all levels in one and finish it before you start another or none at all.

Leave your houserules at home, please. :smallwink:

[Thiyr]

Well, the War Mind gives full BAB and gives some manifesting, which is nifty. Downside: it's kinda underwhelming. That said, I only thought of that due to a redo of it here that i'm gonna be using, but...yea.