is this borked?

[big teej]

greetings,

a player of mine has fallen in love with the duskblade, but, not having access to the book it's in, any questions he has are directed through me.

he asked if duskblades could channel spells through ranged weapons.

I checked. they can not. Arcane Channelling explicitly states "melee attack"

however.

I became curious.

is it obscenely unbalancing/broken to allow a Duskblade to channel through a ranged weapon?

why or why not?

[Arundel]

I am by no means an expert, but when I read that two words did pop right into my mind.

Siege Weaponry.

[big teej]

I am by no means an expert, but when I read that two words did pop right into my mind.

Siege Weaponry.

I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

allow me to amend my initial statement.

"this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."

also, any shenanigans on the part of the player will result in DMG throwing...


but in the group this guy's in I honestly don't see that being a problem.

[McSmack]

I wouldn't think so. They don't have anything that's ridiculously powerful, so switching the method of delivery from melee to ranged shouldn't be an issue.

If you really feel that it's overpowering you could always turn it into an ACF, or simply switch the class around so that they can only use those abilities with ranged attacks.

Hmmm that's not a half bad idea. Duskbow. I likes it!

As an aside have you looked at the Pathfinder Arcane Archer? It's pretty nice.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.html

[Kylarra]

Maybe thrown weapon, or you could just go into bloodstorm blade (or whatever the PrC is).

[big teej]

I wouldn't think so. They don't have anything that's ridiculously powerful, so switching the method of delivery from melee to ranged shouldn't be an issue.

If you really feel that it's overpowering you could always turn it into an ACF, or simply switch the class around so that they can only use those abilities with ranged attacks.

Hmmm that's not a half bad idea. Duskbow. I likes it!

As an aside have you looked at the Pathfinder Arcane Archer? It's pretty nice.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.html

I actually really like this idea, I'll probably let him use melee and ranged interchangeably with the caveat that IF it becomes borked (or even just borked in comparison to the party) that it'll become an ACF and a either or choice.

I like this.

[Flame of Anor]

I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

allow me to amend my initial statement.

"this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."

Surely you know that anything is man-portable with enough cheese.

[Kaje]

Maybe thrown weapon, or you could just go into bloodstorm blade (or whatever the PrC is).

Yes, you can indeed channel through a thrown weapon with 2-4 levels of bloodstorm blade. You need to blow 3 feats or 1 feat and a dip into warblade to qualify though.

[Honest Tiefling]

If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.

[Darth Stabber]

The only ways I know to do that by RAW are Bloodstorm Blade and and Arcane Archer, and the latter is a trap.

Bloodstorm's thrown attacks count as melee, meaning you can channel like normal. Arcane Archer would use it's own mechnic, which is relatively similar. Niether is particularly good for what you are trying accomplish, since BSB requires a decent investment in warblade, Arcane Archer sucks, and neither PRC advances your spell casting. BSB does advance your maneuvers and such, but I'm guessing you would rather keep your caster levels.


If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.

That just reminds me of my favorite boss fight that I have ever run. An ogre with fling ally, and the ally was a goblin swordsage who's armorspikes were enchanted with throwing and returning.

As far as allowing a player to have the ability to arcane channel through a bow, that's probably fine, but you should either charge a feat, brew a 1 lvl prc, brew an ACF, or give the other players some sort of minor boon. Example: I had a swordsage who really wanted access to iron heart discipline, he got that, the dread necro (who had arcane disciple: magic domain) got the domain power, and the psion got +1ml(but no PP or powers) on levels that psion uncarnate did not advance manifesting.

[big teej]

Surely you know that anything is man-portable with enough cheese.

oh aye sure I know that

but my players don't ^_^

I told the guy that I'd let him have it both ways, but I reserve the right to AT ANY TIME demand he pick one or the other.

[Telonius]

If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.

Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.

[KoboldCleric]

I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...

[EarFall]

Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.

I thought he was already a gnome, that probably doesn't stack with itself.

[HappyBlanket]

Maybe it means the gnome can't be flung again? The inability to be flung is a pretty big hit to the race.

[Flame of Anor]

Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.


I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...

This thread is so full of win I can't even describe it. :biggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.


I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...


I thought he was already a gnome, that probably doesn't stack with itself.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[Darrin]

is it obscenely unbalancing/broken to allow a Duskblade to channel through a ranged weapon?

why or why not?

Given their extremely poor selection of touch spells, no. If they can get access to sorcerer/wizard/cleric spells via Chameleon/Sublime Chord/Arcanamach/Ur-Priest, then you may be cooking with a bit more awesomesauce.

However, it would be trivially easy to slip in a level of Warblade followed by two levels of Bloodstorm Blade to pick up Thunderous Throw: swift action to treat all your ranged thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks.

[shadow_archmagi]

why or why not?

I'd say it isn't obscenely unbalancing. If I recall correctly, Duskblades can't do anything particularly impressive anyway, so letting them do it from ten feet away seems harmless enough.

I was under the impression that bows were generally inferior anyway, so switching to a lower damage yield delivery method might be a step down in terms of pure power, although being able to target anyone on the battlefield would be a step up for versatility.

[Warlawk]

I played a duskblade that channeled through a bow. The DM allowed me to burn a feat to switch from melee to ranged. It wasn't amazingly powerful and caused no balance issues at all. Was a fun character that fit in just fine with the rest of the party.

[McSmack]

The only ways I know to do that by RAW are Bloodstorm Blade and and Arcane Archer, and the latter is a trap.

Bloodstorm's thrown attacks count as melee, meaning you can channel like normal. Arcane Archer would use it's own mechnic, which is relatively similar. Niether is particularly good for what you are trying accomplish, since BSB requires a decent investment in warblade, Arcane Archer sucks, and neither PRC advances your spell casting. BSB does advance your maneuvers and such, but I'm guessing you would rather keep your caster levels.


Yeah Arcane Archer is not so snazzy. That's why I prefer Paizo's version. It's actually decent and well balanced.

[Fable Wright]

I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

allow me to amend my initial statement.

"this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."

also, any shenanigans on the part of the player will result in DMG throwing...


but in the group this guy's in I honestly don't see that being a problem.

Actually disintegrate is a ranged touch attack, and thus not a valid target. You could do Vampiric Touch on the ballista, but that doesn't really do much...

And using it on siege weapons isn't really overpowering, as they need to get the siege weapons in the first place... and then it's only a small boost.

[Honest Tiefling]

I get the feeling the DM in question does not wish to encourage them to get siege weaponry, possibly veering away from the plot to do so.

[Fable Wright]

I get the feeling the DM in question does not wish to encourage them to get siege weaponry, possibly veering away from the plot to do so.

They can already sneak attack someone by quickdrawing a ballista from a bag of holding, so the ability to channel spells through it as well doesn't give them too much more incentive to get some...

[The Dark Fiddler]

And using it on siege weapons isn't really overpowering, as they need to get the siege weapons in the first place... and then it's only a small boost.

Once you get to the point where you're using siege weapons, I don't think effectiveness is the point :smallwink:

[Asheram]

I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...

Well... is this useless as in "There is no use for it" or useless as in "unable to fill its original purpose", which already was useless?
If you break a gnome, does it become competent?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well... is this useless as in "There is no use for it" or useless as in "unable to fill its original purpose", which already was useless?
If you break a gnome, does it become competent?

Gnomes are useful! They're there to invent things and let humans steal the credit. After all, where do you think cars and planes came from?

The other use for them is to stand in lawns wearing pointy hats.

[Urpriest]

Gnomes are useful! They're there to invent things and let humans steal the credit. After all, where do you think cars and planes came from?

The other use for them is to stand in lawns wearing pointy hats.

Also Zurich. Eldan...

[BlueInc]

Give it the same caveat as sneak attack: Can be used with a melee or ranged weapon as long as the target is within 30'.

No siege weapons, but he can hit from range.

[Fable Wright]

Give it the same caveat as sneak attack: Can be used with a melee or ranged weapon as long as the target is within 30'.

No siege weapons, but he can hit from range.

Siege weapon in a bag of holding, brought out within 30ft of the target. :smallbiggrin:

Also Sniper's Touch, I think, from SpC can increase that range dramatically...

[Darth Stabber]

Siege weapon in a bag of holding, brought out within 30ft of the target. :smallbiggrin:

Also Sniper's Touch, I think, from SpC can increase that range dramatically...

No, you need to do it within 30' so you still get the bonus from point blank shot.

This all of a sudden has given me the idea for a D&D A-Team.

Hannibal - factotum
Face - bard
Murdock - ????
BA - barbarian

[Flame of Anor]

Siege weapon in a bag of holding, brought out within 30ft of the target. :smallbiggrin:

Even better: just leave the siege weapon in the bag. Then jump in and fire it out of the opening!

[big teej]

Even better: just leave the siege weapon in the bag. Then jump in and fire it out of the opening!

what have I done!?

this is almost as bad as the time I asked bout carpet bombing with G-cubes

[mootoall]

Unintended consequences time! What happens when you start mixing in archery feats with this? Can I channel on a Rapid Shot? Multishot? What happens if I use Extra Spell to learn that one Ranger spell that lets me shoot everyone within 30 feet?

[big teej]

Unintended consequences time! What happens when you start mixing in archery feats with this? Can I channel on a Rapid Shot? Multishot? What happens if I use Extra Spell to learn that one Ranger spell that lets me shoot everyone within 30 feet?

-clamps hands over ears-
Arrrg!!!!!!!

[Honest Tiefling]

Hense why I think you should say that the feat only works with bows, maybe crossbows/slings if you are feeling nice...

I do not know about your players, but the ones I play with would strap a halfling barbarian into a ballista and shoot it at people.

[big teej]

Hense why I think you should say that the feat only works with bows, maybe crossbows/slings if you are feeling nice...

I do not know about your players, but the ones I play with would strap a halfling barbarian into a ballista and shoot it at people.


thankfully, the only reason they'd ever come up with that would be for humor value rather than believing it to be effective.

and to be honest, unless my one player that frequents these forums stumbles across this thread, I'm really not worried about ANY player I know coming up with some of the obscenities generated by this thread.

...on a related note as far as siege weapon's are concerned.

I have an ogre.... his crossbow is a ballista. his sling is the buisness end of a trebuchete.

the orge makes me happy

[Honest Tiefling]

But is his name Detritus and is he a part of the city watch?

[big teej]

But is his name Detritus and is he a part of the city watch?

his name is Grok and he is (debatebly) part of the city watch....

he's more like a living seige engine/public execution/torture device.

he's "evil" but too stupid to actually be evil.

he's been trained that certain people are not for eating
he's been trained that anyone not for eating is also not for playing.

he's been instructed who/what is always fair game.

one of his favorite game is "how many?"
"how many rotations does it take to pop their head off?"