Question Regarding Saves and Gaze Attacks

[monkeysammich]

Wow, Its been a while since I've been here... been so busy... but anyway...

Question 1 - Is a character innately aware of when they make a saving throw? Do you KNOW you shook off a toxin from that food you ate or threw off a spell that was done in secret?

Question 2 - In regards to a vampire's dominating gaze... does the vampire necessarily DO anything to make it happen, other than make eye contact?

Basically, I'm wondering if a vampire could casually walk by a player, dominate them and keep walking... only to take advantage of that dominate at a later time. Yes, I'm an evil DM... but I'm fun! :smallbiggrin:

[mootoall]

If they make the save, then yes, they know something tried to effect them. There's a rule somewhere, just forget where. And gazes are free actions.

[monkeysammich]

Hrm, Okay. I'll try and track down the rule. I'm sure I just missed it.

[Cog]

And gazes are free actions.
This isn't accurate. It's an aura effect; once the gaze is up and running (Su abilities generally being standard actions to toggle on/off) it's no action at all, which can be quite a different thing, and rather than forcing everybody to make a save with a single free action, every potential target must save at the beginning of their own turn. If you have a gaze attack running, you can also focus it on a target as a standard action, forcing that target to make an additional save.

[myancey]

Question 1 - Is a character innately aware of when they make a saving throw? Do you KNOW you shook off a toxin from that food you ate or threw off a spell that was done in secret?

I keep a couple ranks and stats of the players' written down--including the 3 saves-and skills such as spot, listen, and sense motive.

I let my players roll, saying, "Give me a d20". They know something is up, but it could be as simple as a spot check...or maybe seeing if they resist a poison. The point is, they won't know exactly. I usually don't worry about this much in combat, especially when spells are cast by known combatants.


Question 2 - In regards to a vampire's dominating gaze... does the vampire necessarily DO anything to make it happen, other than make eye contact?


To answer that, here is the SRD on vampire gaze attacks. It is a standard action and simply making eye contact with a vampire will not force a save.
Dominate (Su)

A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet.


Basically, I'm wondering if a vampire could casually walk by a player, dominate them and keep walking... only to take advantage of that dominate at a later time. Yes, I'm an evil DM... but I'm fun! :smallbiggrin:

And yes, I believe it could. If you really want to break it down to specific actions, the vampire would retain its move action after activating its domination gaze as the standard. So he could move.

But out of combat, I would just describe him as walking along--making eye contact with the player. Follow my idea for question one, and all you would have to say to the player is, "Give me a d20 roll". It could be a spot check for all the player knows.

Some DMs would go even further and roll the entire check for the player--giving no player knowledge at all..but I'm superstitious about rolling for others, so I don't.


If they make the save, then yes, they know something tried to effect them.

And yeah, if they pass the save--they should get a rough description of something...even if it's "You feel something wash over you, whispering to your mind that it holds the best course of action. Strong in presence, you bat this thought aside."

Sorry..that was probably a corny description..but I wanted to give you an idea.

[hewhosaysfish]

Hrm, Okay. I'll try and track down the rule. I'm sure I just missed it.

There's a rules for spells:


A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.

It's not unreasonable to extend it to spell-like and supernatural abilities as well.
For poisons, I'd be inclined to say that someone who passes the same still feels some ill effects, just not sufficient in magnitude to take any ability damage; in fact, the more you passed the same by the less likely you'd be to realise anything was wrong.

[Feytalist]

Spot and listen checks are problematic: how do you (as the character) know that you just failed to see something?

For reflex saves and the like, it's generally easier. If you just managed to jump out of the way of the trap, you've pretty aware of the fact. With will saves however, you could just rule that the character feels something weird at the time, as the above posters mentioned.

[monkeysammich]

Cool, thanks for the input. Will help Castle Ravenloft be much more interesting.