Dragon City-state

[Adamaro]

Im making a new campaign I think may be really fun, but I would ask for some help from all those who are well familiar with dragons and draconic species. Here is the story for my PCs: You are of a draconic race and are in fact sons of great Dragon (insert name), who rules the great merchant city of (insert name) for past XXX years while his family rules this city for XXXX years.

it will be sandbox, but I would like to create dragons palace with a few things in mind:
- i do not want it to lack things like armory or spell-component store. I would really like it to be based on some logical basis.
So far I got:
- Main chamber of the Dragon (opened to the sky)
- Chambers of Dragonguard (bodyguards. What race would be best for this? Tier 1 PC classes)
- Pleasure chambers (yup, a harem)
- Reception palace
- Maintance quarters (group of janitors?)
- Treasury (Guarded by Dragonguard)


Dragon posessions and powers:

- lord of trade in the city
- his own spy network
- his own Divination squad
- several overt (other cities, kingdoms) and covert alliances in case dragon must flee the palace (which races?)

Palace populace (how many and which ones do you suggest?):

- patriarch Dragon
- X number of wifes (suggest some sexy species :D I was thinking a few draconic species, a succubus, a dryad, a few humans)
- XX nuber of dragon children
- XX number of dragonborn guard
- XXX number of kobold followers
- other retainers? friends? bootlickers?

Which dragon would you suggest? I want at least non-chaotic dragon. And dragon of what age?

How would he protect himself from that hurr-durr-i-am-lvl-10-now-ill-get-me-some-roasted-dragon PC shenanigans? I was actually thinking he would walk around his palace in a polymophed state, while there would really be an illusion of him in his residence.

All other suggestions are much appreciated.

[Runestar]

For good, gold or silver dragon seems plausible. I think there are articles on dragon rulers in exemplars of evil and dragon magic. Age probably of ancient or older.

For guards, I think really anything goes, the dragon could in theory mate with anything to breed whatever he deems fit, not sure how LG dragons might see that though. They might be more "faithful" lovers?

[slaydemons]

I believe some good races would be taken from the core rule book, in fact take them all dragon probably has lived so long he doesn't see sexy as you do.

As for the lg thing about dragons and being with one lover, why does that have to be so what if he grew up with polygamy being the norm and in fact the law, lets assume at one point the dragons were in a decline so male dragons took one more then one wife.

[hewhosaysfish]

As for the lg thing about dragons and being with one lover, why does that have to be so what if he grew up with polygamy being the norm and in fact the law, lets assume at one point the dragons were in a decline so male dragons took one more then one wife.

Fun Fact: IIRC, Bahamut the Lawful Good (as in Paladin-Lawful-Good) god of Good Dragons shares his heavenly palace with seven consorts.

All dragons, rather than a "United Nations" variety of humanoid races but the same principles apply.

(They're all Gold Dragons too... I guess Bahamut prefers blondes.)

[myancey]

Use Races of the Dragon heavily--populating your city with these folk. Kobolds, Spellscales, half-dragons, etc.

Frankly, the security should be tight enough that a level 10 PC couldn't get into the palace without an invite. (It would depend on how cautious your king is though. Maybe he believes he can take care of himself, and excludes guards from his usual retinue. Or maybe he has many enemies, and keeps a compliment of Troll-blooded, Warblade Half-dragons at his side at all times.)

Have a few dragonwrought kobolds running around as his personal spellcasters. There are ways to really beef up this palace security. Tucker's kobolds could be encountered in the first level of his palace--hundreds of the little guys always on shift. An ancient dragon is bound to have a plethora of gold, anyway.

[BlueInc]

I did a campaign in a world where dragons were worshiped as gods. Will something similar happen in your campaign?

In that case, guard the palace with clerics and paladins (if you're using LG dragons) vigilantly protect the palace against evil. I used Sohei from Oriental Adventures as bodyguards.

If you're using a metallic dragon, why not put have the dragons employ golems/constructs of their metal as servants and guards?

As far as breeding partners go, consider whether all breeding would be done for pleasure or if the dragons breed with certain creatures for useful tasks as well, i.e. breeding with Small creatures to create spies and scouts, breeding with Large and Huge creatures to create melee combat specialists, etc. Possibly disturbing is what happens to those "failed" experiments.

[Typewriter]

This doesn't sound like exactly what you're looking for, but it's something I have in my current campaign world that I think you may find interesting.

The good aligned dragons control an island that is completely walled and fortified. Inside the walls are vaults. The dragons run the worlds bank essentially. You can purchase vaults, or request new ones built. The dragons manage the money and the half dragons manage dock security and other mundane tasks. The vaults are open to any who have the money to pay as long as they're not using the vaults to perform evil deeds. As long as you follow the rules of the city the dragons leave you be while you are doing business with them, regardless of your alignment.

In addition to the city the dragons also have a fleet of ships that they use to pick up and drop off belongings that certain specific customers may have requested. In this way I'm able to make the presence of the dragons felt in any city with a dock, but unless the party ever goes to the "Dragon Capital" it's not overwhelming.

[Runestar]

Anything strong enough to take on the dragon would be strong enough to get past his guards. Likewise, anything weak enough to be stopped by the guards wouldn't last a round against the dragon at any rate. So I am not sure what purpose they would serve. :smalltongue:

[blazingshadow]

guards are meant to delegate the security duty so that the dragon isn't overwhelmed by many things to do at the same time or be killed while he is vulnerable. sacrificing minions are also a viable tactic to solve many problems and people need jobs even if those jobs are redundant.

[myancey]

Anything strong enough to take on the dragon would be strong enough to get past his guards. Likewise, anything weak enough to be stopped by the guards wouldn't last a round against the dragon at any rate. So I am not sure what purpose they would serve. :smalltongue:

That's not entirely true. It's not that expensive to hire a War Troll (from MMIII), at least for a rich dragon king. For the untrained war troll, it's 30gp a day--the 4th level fighter version being around 75gp a day. For the 75gp you get a 14CR fighter that wrecks with damage and can only be killed with acid.

Just make sure the dragon came about his riches through usual dragon methods...plus finding a platinum mine underneath the city somewhere. Yay profits from platinum.

[Othniel Edden]

Dangit. I was hoping this was about a city-state built on the back of a dragon.

[myancey]

Dangit. I was hoping this was about a city-state built on the back of a dragon.

If only...

I feel like I saw a picture in a d&d book where there was a castle on top of some massive dragon turtle looking sea creature.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If only...

I feel like I saw a picture in a d&d book where there was a castle on top of some massive dragon turtle looking sea creature.
The lion turtle in Avatar: TLA? He doesn't have a city on him, but he is often seen as an island.

Fun Fact: IIRC, Bahamut the Lawful Good (as in Paladin-Lawful-Good) god of Good Dragons shares his heavenly palace with seven consorts.

All dragons, rather than a "United Nations" variety of humanoid races but the same principles apply.

(They're all Gold Dragons too... I guess Bahamut prefers blondes.)

Not all of Bahamut's cohorts are female. They're not wives.

[Hirax]

Read the page 54 fluff on silver dragons in Draconomicon, I think they'd be the best fit. They're said to prefer the company of humans and elves, don't like to let opportunity pass them by, don't share the same perspective on time as other dragons, and are generally more motivated than other dragons. Sounds like someone who would start an empire to me.

[Amnestic]

Not all of Bahamut's cohorts are female. They're not wives.

For all we know, Bahamut goes both ways. :smallamused:

[Adamaro]

@Runestar, myancey
I really think that, say 30 lvl 7 clerics and 15 lvl 5 wizards are a very decent obstacle. Maybe a couple of low lvl druids too. Thats the point here.

[Ravens_cry]

If you had a city of dragons as actual residence, doors and windows will basically be the same thing. Of course, you will need some at lower levels so humanoid servants and retainers can come and go, but not for the dragons themselves. Another thing, dragons legendarily have absolutely voracious appetites. I don't see a city as much as a collection of villas surrounded by large farms run by humanoids, with statues and sculptures at places pleasing to the eye from both the ground and the air dotting the grounds.

[QuidEst]

I would find a good prefix or suffix to use. Calling stuff the "dragon-noun" or "draco-noun" kind of spoils the effect. It's still nice to be able to quickly indicate that it's something to do with the city-state, though, so you can come up with a good name for the city-state or royal family and use part of that for a prefix. There could also be two separate prefixes- one for stuff of the city-state, and one for things or individuals pertaining to the royal family itself.

Hmm… it'd be interesting to see what sort of supply chain this place has. Dragons aren't light eaters, after all. Probably takes a lot of grazing land.

Anyways, just some random thoughts. Good luck!

[Runestar]

I really think that, say 30 lvl 7 clerics and 15 lvl 5 wizards are a very decent obstacle. Maybe a couple of low lvl druids too. Thats the point here.

If by obstacle, you mean "difficult terrain", then yes, I probably agree. What are you intending on protecting the dragon against? :smallamused:

[myancey]

If by obstacle, you mean "difficult terrain", then yes, I probably agree. What are you intending on protecting the dragon against? :smallamused:

Yeah, agreed. It's better to have a few powerful bodyguards than a ton of little minions. I mean, if the party was also level 7, as the clerics, that'd be one thing. But two powerful looking NPCs would fit right in as the bodyguards of the Dragon.

[blazingshadow]

dragons legendarily have absolutely voracious appetites.

Dragons aren't light eaters, after all. Probably takes a lot of grazing land

dragons eat a whole lot less if they have the alternate form ability which is a feat away from any dragon willing to rule efficiently

[Ravens_cry]

dragons eat a whole lot less if they have the alternate form ability which is a feat away from any dragon willing to rule efficiently
Dragons are also extremely arrogant, even the good ones. Sure, been humanoid has its advantages, but you are a smooth skinned, tiny, apeling. How humiliating!

[Randel]

Remember that dragons have long lifespans and a dragon raising a human from childhood to adulthood would be like a human raising a puppy into a loyal guard dog. His guards will basically see him as family. Do the same thing with every major public official so he may have a decent sized family of his dragon offspring but he'll have a much bigger sort of human family who all know him, are loyal, and are willing to bring up stuff with him.

Not only will pretty much everybody in power like him, and not only will killing him bring all sorts of instability and stuff to the system, but killing the dragon would be like killing the close uncle of the mayor, police chief, military officer, and who knows ho many assassins and powerful mages. Remember that this guy trains humans like humans train dogs so fighting him will unleash a royal mess of ultra-loyal bloodhounds on you (albeit bloodhounds that can wield swords and magic and were given the best damm training money can buy).


Also, expect alot of farmland around his domain to grow food for him and the human population. The dragon is the ruler of the land and owns everything including the cattle and sheep in the area, if he wants to eat he can either have his meals sent to him or he can go hunting for it. Remember how old nobility would often go out hunting together for sport and maybe run across the peasantry? Well a dragon can fly over his land and look down on everything. He can scout the land, descend to a farm field, snack on the cattle, and complement the farmer on his work (maybe listen to said farmers concerns about bandits, or corruption in the local government, or problems with the field, or offer to give his kids an education or whatnot).

If there is a problem anywhere in his domain then the dragon can just fly up and look at it from the sky. This also means that his citizens can see him and he can go mingle with the peasants to a degree (he's got his guards to spot high level threats and there's not much a common thug can do against a dragon). As long as he's not a jerk, it likely that his citizens could get to know him and see him as a good guy or at least better than human rulers.

The best defense for a ruler is to be liked amongst the people though its also good to be feared, which is easy for a dragon to be. The people could like him for protecting them and seeming to keep an eye out, while fearing him because he's a huge monster with elite minions that could eat them and blow up their whole family if he felt like it. As long as hes liked enough that nobody wants to attack him, and feared enough that nobody feels confident they could survive a fight with him then he should be safe.

[Big Fau]

Read Dragons of Eberron, specifically the section on Argonnessen. Eberron has a pre-made continent in this style.

[Runestar]

Would rings of sustenance remove the need for a dragon to eat? :smallbiggrin:

If he needs to eat, have a cleric conjure up a heroes' feast perhaps?

[Analytica]

dragons eat a whole lot less if they have the alternate form ability which is a feat away from any dragon willing to rule efficiently

Dragons of Faerun states that steel dragon, at least, must eat their fill in dragon form as well, and so would leave their human lives once in a while to go eat a herd of cattle. I think the intent was that this is a general thing rather than a steel dragon weakness.

Also, I somehow want to suggest the presence of an Elminster or Jack Harkness expy in the dragon's harem. :smallredface:

[Ravens_cry]

@Runestar
Or, you know, farms and such. Dragons in most stories are not the most gregarious species. A dragon city would be a place to discuss business and treaties between different fiefs, but hardly a place to live for extended periods. The day to day business of running the place would be encharged to stewards and other underlings. Of course, to a dragon, everyone is an underling.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Yeah, agreed. It's better to have a few powerful bodyguards than a ton of little minions. I mean, if the party was also level 7, as the clerics, that'd be one thing. But two powerful looking NPCs would fit right in as the bodyguards of the Dragon.

The trick is never, never tell the PCs their actual levels. Stat them up as alarm chained clerics bound together to serve CITY STATE/ROYAL NAME, but always make sure they are at least as strong as the PCs. If you start from level one to maybe level 6 or 7, the cheeky wizard or Darkstalker Rogue may trip a mindsight trap via a level 6 Mindbender, who then dusts that bad boy with glitterdust while "calling" the guard. All from the shadows, too!:smallbiggrin:


Another thing is that dragons kind of view procreation as, well adding more of their blood to the world. Thus a Dragon city state may have hundreds of noble half-dragons and draconic creatures and merely dragon-touched creatures by virtue of descending bloodlines.

EDIT:
Also, I somehow want to suggest the presence of an Elminster or Jack Harkness expy in the dragon's harem. :smallredface:

I agree with bold far, far more than I would like to admit!:smallbiggrin:

Also, +1 to all that Randel has said in this thread.

[Zaydos]

If you're going Good use Silver Dragons.

They love mingling with humanoids and are the 2nd most likely species to spend time with humanoids and in humanoid form.

If you're going for a Neutral ruler look at Steel Dragons from Dragons of Faerun. They usually spend most of their time with humanoids and in humanoid form.

If you're going Evil use Blue Dragons.

While they lack a natural Alternate Form ability and are least likely of the three listed to assume humanoid form if they can, they are the kingdom builders of evil dragons.

For races look at Dragon Magic it has Silverbrow Humans (humans with silver dragon ancestry) and other dragonblood subraces for most of the main races, you can adapt off of these for any combination you want if you find these inappropriate.

For guards their power level should vary based upon how powerful the dragon is.

For dragon age that should vary based upon the power level of the setting. Mature Adult + would be adviced so that it could have plenty of offspring already.

For the polygamy thing, look at the Draconomicon it makes it clear that even among the lawful species monogamy is not necessarily the norm, and that at best it is normally a temporary thing and it is rare for two dragons to spend their entire lifespan together so having X mates wouldn't be against its nature (a little abnormal but so is ruling a city-state).

[Johel]

Just my opinion but wouldn't a young dragon be more likely to rule a city ?
After all, when you got several centuries of experience, you don't care about ruling ants.
While youngsters, much like human children, might enjoy the ego boost of having their "pets".

A young adult silver dragon is already CR 13.
Add a few adventurer level (Sorcerer ?) and you got a powerful dragon who left the nest early in search for adventures.
He got a liking in humanoids and sticked with them.
Since he was stronger and smarter than most, he eventually became the ruler.

But while it might look to mortals like the dragon has and will "always be there", it's only a temporary occupation for the dragon.
He has been ruling for 50 years, will probably stick around another 50 and then will move to something else.

[Randel]

Oh, and regarding economics:

The dragon could make it perfectly clear that his citizens are "his property" (insert stuff like "I always protect my flock" or "Nobody messes with my stuff!" etc). His primary goals with this operation are to secure a decent amount of food, get a big bed of gold to sleep on, stay safe, and maybe attract mates (dragons don't mate for life and the lady dragons might have a fondness for a guy who has a whole city of servants for himself. Not all dragons have the patience to raise kingdoms and this makes him either a 'boring guy with a steady paycheck' or a rich playboy among the dragon community).

He doesn't really care enough about the peasants to go out of his way to attack them (I mean a farmer doesn't care if his chickens like him, he just lets them do their thing as long as he gets the eggs and he will protect them from predators and ensure they get food).

If this dragon enjoys hunting (or otherwise killing humans for sport) then it would be easy for him to target those who attack his citizens. Its like noblemen going on a fox hunt. Nobles might get on their horses, have trained dogs to sniff out foxes, and then go on a big chase where they kill the fox and keep its hide. This dragon flies, has his own trained trackers by his side to locate bandits or enemy armies (and protect him) while he gets the pleasure of roasting whole camps of bandits and playing with his prey.

His interaction with nearby kingdoms and rulers can factor into this as well. He stays on good terms with neighbors who stay on good terms with him and in return he's willing to hunt down anyone who threatens them. If there are other dragons then he gets them in on this 'protection racket' since he can now get a legitimate reason to burn villages, bandit camps, enemy armies, or rampaging trolls into ash while not having a bunch of ants get mad at him.


Also, depending on how secure his kingdom is (really, he's a dragon and hopefully sets up security to deal with anything that can threaten a dragon so he should have some good security). Then he can act like a big gold repository. People know that if he gets gold then he piles it into his hoard (which he has all the security around) and as long as he's pretty good at honoring his debts then having him watch over it is better than keeping it in a dungeon.

His economy could move away from gold and silver as currency (since he sleeps on it all) and instead have something like beer and bread (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/prices.htm). Basically, his government hires people to do work (like farming and such) and pays them their wages in bread and beer. Low wages might be around three to four loaves a day and a gallon of beer (ancient egyptian beer was made from fermented bread, was high in protien, low in alchohol, and had enough water to quench thirst. So drinking alot of this beer kept workers healthy and drunk enough to stay happy but not so drunk that they passed out in the field). Higher wages could go into the hundreds of loaves (considering a loaf of bread would be a few cp then getting into a gp level income would be alot of bread) and those would be measured out with paper money or equivilient goods like silk or wine or whatever.

So, he pays his people with readily available foodstuffs and goods while he sleeps on all the gold and gems. Trade amongst merchants would likely involve notes that guarantee the person can get the equivalent in beer or food from the government. His farmers constantly grow more food (so hopefully he won't run out of food to trade) and if there is an excess then he turns it into alcohol and either has it traded to foreign markets or sticks them in a dungeon somewhere where it can age and increase in value or whatever.

People with gold could sell it to the dragons government (and he'll probably pay more in its equivalent in bread and beer or dragon-bucks) or they could just send the gold to him for safekeeping. The dragon honors his debts and if a king in a foreign land wants his gold back then the dragon would give it back (or preferably give its equivalent in other goods).

So bread and beer bucks would be issued by the government and be worth their equivalent in a standardized loaf of bread or volume of beer.

Gold notes would represent an equivalent amount of gold which is being kept safe in the dragons hoard. People who ask the dragon to keep their gold safe can be assured that he will keep it safe and return it when they ask for it, and in addition will gladly give them something else (like beer, bread, soldiers, whatever) if they don't necessarily wan their gold back. Even if the unthinkable happens and one of the dragons girlfriends runs off with his mountain of gold then he will honor the notes and reinburse the value of it in goods, or if the other kings land gets conquered then the dragon makes good his debt and provides the funds while the invaders walk into a treasure room which is empty (cause all the gold is being kept by the dragon next door).

If he does have the gold-security thing going on then there will be alot of people counting on him to honor his debts and they would want their money back. If someone manages to kill him or take his hoard then the expected response is to have him and/or his followers go into a rage like nobody has seen and hunt down the thieves to the ends of the earth. The guys saving their money should get it back in the form of other goods but can probably be counted on to help track down the thieves.

So basically, he has a hoard of gold and gems that he sleeps on, but a lot of it is 'owned' by other people who will want it back if anybody takes it.

[Runestar]

Just my opinion but wouldn't a young dragon be more likely to rule a city ?
After all, when you got several centuries of experience, you don't care about ruling ants.

I am not sure if they have mental maturity or sense of responsibility to rule a kingdom, which is seriously a full-time job. This isn't taking care of an ant farm which you can just dump in the garden when you get bored. I think young dragons would have the mentality of a teenager or fresh grad.