[3.5]Warlock/Binder/Hellfire Warlock

[Saragos]

Hey all. I'm working on a character concept. Basically, an ultimate blaster warlock. I'm not that great at optimization, so I was hoping to get some good builds for a warlock/binder/hellfire warlock. Basically, I want 1 level in binder, 3 in the hellfire warlock, and the rest in warlock, and just pump up my eldritch blast. I'm open to ideas/suggestions; anyone have any?

Thanks!

[dextercorvia]

If you choose to go melee, you can find a lot of good info here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708)

Whatever you do, you might want to see about extending Hellfire Warlock with Uncanny Trickster.

[Morbis Meh]

Don't even take a level of binder, just grap the feat bind vestige and get the power Faster Ability healing from Naberius. Another option to extend hellfire warlock is by going into Legacy Champion from weapons of Legacy (you need to be bound to a legacy item though)

Edit: Also take mortal bane as a feat, adds a nice 2d6 to ur blast against living enemies (so no undead or constructs) 3/day

[thompur]

Be sure to get a Warlock's Scepter and a Greater Chausuble of Fell Power.
The former gives you +1 to hit with your Eldritch Blast, as well as daily boosts of d6 damage, and the latter adds +2d6 to Elditch Blast. There is also a set of magic gloves that let you add elemental damage to the your blasts. It's in the MIC, but I'm AFMB at the moment.

[Urpriest]

Don't even take a level of binder, just grap the feat bind vestige and get the power Faster Ability healing from Naberius. Another option to extend hellfire warlock is by going into Legacy Champion from weapons of Legacy (you need to be bound to a legacy item though)

Doesn't work. Bind Vestige only gives you some of the benefits, Faster Ability Healing is not among them.

[thompur]

Don't even take a level of binder, just grap the feat bind vestige and get the power Faster Ability healing from Naberius. Another option to extend hellfire warlock is by going into Legacy Champion from weapons of Legacy (you need to be bound to a legacy item though)

No...Sorry...that doesn't work. You don't get that ability from the feat. You must take the level of Binder to get the full benefits from Naberius.:smallmad:

Wow...Ninja'd, Swordsaged, and worst of all, somebody beat me to it. And said it better.:smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

I forgot to mention, don't neglect UMD. You can consistently rock out with Wands and Scrolls. It can get expensive, but after level 12, you can save a little by making them yourself.

[Saragos]

I'm definitely investing in some magic devices. Thanks for all the advice so far. What are some good feat choices for blaster type warlocks? I've been able to find plenty of info on glaivelocks, but the master blaster type seems a lot harder to find info on/optimize. I know that the blaster archetype isn't really the most powerful or optimized build, but I'm wanting to make it as powerful as possible within those limitations.

[Top_Hat]

After taking Hellfire Warlock you can take a class like Legacy Champion or a Bloodline which advance another classes abilities. This lets you get more than three levels of hellfire blasting awesomeness. Legacy Champion is, I believe, 8/10 progression so you would have a truly crazy blast though you do miss out on some of the better invocations.

[Saragos]

Yeah, that's the thing. I want to keep as many invocations as possible. While I certainly want to max out my blasting, I would like to at least have a little
utility with the invocations. What are the bloodlines from?

[dextercorvia]

Don't do bloodlines. They are very weak or very cheesy. Legacy Champion will advance Hellfire Warlock, which advances invocations, so you will only miss (IIRC) 1 dark invocation.

[Kaje]

Yes, you miss 1d6 eldritch blast and 1 dark invocation (which is fine since all the good ones are greater or below) and get +12d6 hellfire blast instead.

[thompur]

I hate miss chances. I hate missing after I hit due to SR. I usually take Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, and Arcane Mastery. With those, I usually don't have to worry about level appropriate SR. Also, Maximize, Empower, and/or Quicken SLA, as well as Ability Focus: EB. I always get a pair of Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting, in case I come up against incorporeal opponents.:smallbiggrin:

[Kaje]

I hate miss chances. I hate missing after I hit due to SR. I usually take Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, and Arcane Mastery. With those, I usually don't have to worry about level appropriate SR. Also, Maximize, Empower, and/or Quicken SLA, as well as Ability Focus: EB. I always get a pair of Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting, in case I come up against incorporeal opponents.:smallbiggrin:

Hooray for vitriolic blast!

[Draz74]

Unless you're in a particularly high-op group, you're probably fine without using any PrCs to extend Hellfire Warlock beyond its intended three levels. Doing so would not only slow your access to Invocations, but if I were your DM, it would piss me off.

If you really want to squeeze more damage dice out of three Hellfire Warlock levels (even though that already gets you a lot of extra damage), use one of the melee tricks (Eldritch Glaive is the simplest, and comes from the most likely-to-be-accepted source) to use your Eldritch Blast more than once a round.

Definitely pick up the Warlock-focused items from Magic Item Compendium.

Definitely get Chilling Tentacles, and possibly Repelling Blast, so you can play at battlefield control. Definitely max out your UMD skill; once you get the Warlock 12 ability, get at least one Item Creation feat. (If you get only one, it should probably be Craft Wondrous Item, although Craft Wand is tempting too.)

If you're human, one thing that might be worth losing invocations for is two levels of Chameleon.

[Re'ozul]

If you choose any psionic race, the following feats might come in handy:

Psionic Shot
Greater Psionic Shot
Psionic Meditation

Non-psionic races would need wild-talent on top of that.
Overall this gives you another 4d6 in later levels.

[Mordaedil]

Don't do bloodlines. They are very weak or very cheesy. Legacy Champion will advance Hellfire Warlock, which advances invocations, so you will only miss (IIRC) 1 dark invocation.

Legacy Champion does prequisite finding of a legacy item, which doesn't strike me as viable in every game.

[Goaty14]

Legacy Champion does prequisite finding of a legacy item, which doesn't strike me as viable in every game.

Most DMs tend to ignore "special" requirements. Not having a legacy items just means that you won't benefit from any class features benefiting legacy items.

[Mordaedil]

"Most DMs", huh... Usually not on any table I play at, but I guess that's why we struggle so much qualifying for Jaunter on our fighter, since I suppose if you just IGNORE the rules, it's very handy and easy to get by on games. I thought the implication most of the time on these boards were that the special requirements were usually going to be set up to qualify the player, not outright ignored.

[skunk3]

First of all, a lot of DM's will take a dim view of Uncanny Trickster / Legacy Champion cheese. Even taking a level of Binder to get around the drawback of HFW is kinda cheesy IMO (personally), especially since Magic of Incarnum isn't really used at many tables. I would talk to your DM and see what they think about these ideas because a lot of people I know would flat-out say no to some of these suggestions. If he is fine with you taking a dip in Binder, then go for it.

If you're wanting the ultimate blastlock, the question you have to ask yourself is whether or not you're going to be taking it to epic levels. The epic warlock feats are pretty damn sweet. There's one that allows you to imbue your blast with two essence types (vitriolic and utterdark!), and there's another that lets you shoot two blasts per round. The only downside is that you will be having to select some pretty stupid invocation choices in the process of qualifying for those epic feats. You can select "extra invocation" whenever you level up and get new feats to add more, but personally I find learning a bunch of crappy invocations just to be able to qualify for some pretty badass epic invocations not worth it, aside from a few... especially since there's several invocations that aren't EB-related that are awesome to have, like Flee The Scene, See The Unseen, etc. There's also shape invocations that help you get way more mileage out of your blasts, like Eldritch Spear which gives you huge range, Eldritch Chain which lets you hit more than one enemy, Eldritch Cone which lets you target a decent-sized group of people... although they get to make reflex saves. Just things to keep in mind.

As far as spell penetration goes, it's not that big of a deal most of the time unless you're fighting lots of enemies with spell resistance, and even then, by the time you get Vitriolic Blast (which bypasses SR) that's basically all you're gonna be using aside from Utterdark Blast and situationally perhaps stuff like Repelling Blast and Noxious Blast. I am playing an Eldritch Disciple, so I did pick up spell pen and greater spell pen but only because I'm also using divine casting as well. For a straight-up Warlock they aren't really all that necessary but you be the judge of that. IMO "extra invocation" is one of the best feats any Warlock can take at pretty much any level, but quicken SLA can be decent, and Mortalbane is definitely recommended as well.


As others have pointed out, blastlock damage is pretty crap overall, even with all of the items you can buy that boost your damage. A glaivelock or even a clawlock is going to do more damage, but you're also going to be closer to the action, so dumping some money on defense is a must. If you're going for a pure blastlock and staying out of melee, just keep in mind that your damage is gonna be crap, especially at higher levels. The only good thing about shooting blasts is that you can shoot them all day long, you get great range, and you're only hitting touch AC.

Item-wise, here's just a few ideas:

Greater Chausuble of Fell power is a must. Buy the lesser version and get it upgraded later if you have to.
The Eldritch Scepter from the MIC is okay but kinda 'meh' IMO. It's worth getting eventually but it's nothing extravagant. You can always enchant it with stuff like Eager, Warning, Defending and whatnot as money allows.
The Gloves of Eldritch Admixture is a good low cost item, and remember that if you are already taking up an item slot you can just add new properties to an existing item. Costs more but oh well.
The Bracers of the Entangling Blast is situationally good, and cheap.
The Bracers of the Blast Barrier is in the same boat. You can have a custom set of bracers that has the properties of both, and under item creation rules you could hypothetically have versions of these items that have unlimited uses per day.
The Belt of Battle can grant you extra actions, so it's good to have for basically anyone. Once per day you could shoot two blasts in one round.
There's also numerous items (both worn and slotless) that can up your CL.
Last but not least, you also have Rods of Eldritch Power which vary in price from least to dark which can give you access to shapes and essences... 5x a day.


If you are playing in a gestalt game, the Enlightened Spirit PrC is a great choice. The PrC kinda sucks overall but in a gestalt campaign or even into epic levels it can be useful because it ups your damage every 2 levels and gives you a handful of invocations that you can either keep or retrain. Personally I wouldn't bother with Enlightened Spirit unless it was in a gestalt game unless it's for a one level dip, as the first level benefits aren't too bad.

Another thing to consider is that some people say that you cannot apply blast or shape essences to Hellfire blasts. Personally, I think that is absurd but a lot of people argue that it shouldn't be possible because your EB turns into a HB. I say that Warlocks should be able to apply blast and shape essences to Hellfire blasts.

IMO, if you wanna do really good ranged damage with your EB, buy a bow and enchant the hell out of it. There's a least invocation called Hideous Shot and it lets you imbue your EB into your arrow... so you're not making touch attacks anymore - but! - if you do hit, you are doing your EB damage (including hellfire or any essences you add) plus the damage from your arrows. That is potentially big ranged damage. I am not sure if the splitting enchantment would essentially double your EB damage or not though. You also get iteratives, but I think you can only imbue your first shot of the round with your EB.