[3.5] Natural Necro?

[Graha013]

I've been through plenty of core and errata looking for this in a class, but the end result just seems to be 'you just have to roleplay it':

I'm looking for a Necromancer type build that is treated more as a 'herald' of the dead than a destroyer/user. I can't believe there isn't a class or PrC that doesn't fill the niche. The thought is someone, generally Divine in nature, who views death and negative energy not as a good/evil but as simply part of nature. Undeath is not neccessary 'unnatural' as sources of negative energy are viewed as natural and can cause undeath. The 'type' would look to return the dead back, peacefully, to death, however is not against using them (i.e. rebuking an evil necro's dead to fight for him) to achieve this gain, and is not after destroying undead a la turn.

It fits more as a PrC than an core class I think, and one that could possible require arcane and divine abilities to address undead and negative energy - but also ease/have access to positive energy.

Thoughts?

[Keld Denar]

Um, just plain old Cleric should be fine, especially if played in a setting that has such a god (Kelemvor in FR fits most of what you stated). Simply pray for mostly spells involving positive and negative energy. Why do you need arcane elements to meet this goal?

[Honest Tiefling]

Hrm. Is this a theoretical build, or do you have a DM? If you have a DM, try making a cleric, and pick up a nature domain and a death domain. It seems like an intriguing idea to me! And you'd be able to work with a group of goodies, assuming that your group plays goodies and that the goodies do not have a stick where the resident sun god does not shine.

If you are in a specific setting, it may need some tweaking. Kelemvor will not have a nature angle, through his clerics do reassure people that death is merely a part of life and not to be feared. (Unless you were faithless ahahahahaha!) I wonder if there is some elven fluff to steal, given that quite a few of them use death and yet prance around woodland glades with friendly forest creatures.

[Graha013]

Diversity, and I hate playing plain clerics?

Optimization-wise, for this build, losing or limiting caster levels in arcane or divine doesn't work. Thematic wise it seems to fit, as the 'herald' would handle arcanely raised undead, negative energy areas - and as such possibly even limiting or removing positive energy sources too, in an effort to maintain utter universal balance.

EDIT: the finish to that thought was: he would also deal with the 'divine' aspect of the undead in the souls and spirits, but also possibly reviving those deemed as taken unnaturally or before their time..

The other thought was also (in looking at Libris Mortis) seeing if there was worth in it to find the arcane opposite to the divine that works - sometimes I just don't want to turn/rebuke as a cleric, because I can rebuke/turn as a sorc (sic, necro).

But what I'm gathering is that while the imagination has found the niche, nothing has been built to fill the void beyond what can be roleplayed..

[Graha013]

Hrm. Is this a theoretical build, or do you have a DM? If you have a DM, try making a cleric, and pick up a nature domain and a death domain. It seems like an intriguing idea to me! And you'd be able to work with a group of goodies, assuming that your group plays goodies and that the goodies do not have a stick where the resident sun god does not shine.

If you are in a specific setting, it may need some tweaking. Kelemvor will not have a nature angle, through his clerics do reassure people that death is merely a part of life and not to be feared. (Unless you were faithless ahahahahaha!) I wonder if there is some elven fluff to steal, given that quite a few of them use death and yet prance around woodland glades with friendly forest creatures.

I grew up in the FR environ, and while my current DM is pretty lax, he IS running our current campaign as if Europe was filled with f#*$n minotaurs and elves stuff like that. I'm hanging in there just to be able to play again..but come on, really?

Definitely theoretical at this time. It piqued my interest only in looking through various builds here and seeing that there is really only Destroy Undead or Control Undead when it comes to class relation. I mean, even Druids have a little in between when it comes to their class (not simply Tree-hugger or Blighter).

[Toliudar]

If you think your DM will allow third-party work, there's the Speaker for the Dead prestige class from the the Frank and K tome (http://turing.bard.edu/~mk561/frank_k_0.5.1.pdf). Full caster advancement, and the fluff seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

[Analytica]

Dragon Mag had a cleric variant that basically did this as well. It was listed in that compendium of D&D features that got taken down. I think it was called Ancestral Speaker, got better skills and used itself as a holy symbol.

[gorfnab]

The Nightstalker from Dragonlance: Races of Ansalon (page 153) could work for a more "natural" undeath theme.

[Kalim]

Mourner was a Bard PrC out of Dragon Magazine, I think, that was sort of an Anti-Dirgesinger. Focused on putting the Undead back to just being dead.

It's arcane, but you might want to look into it.

[Graha013]

cool - thanks for all those sources. Don't know how my DM views 3rd party stuff, and I'm not a personal fan of Dragon mag in general, but the ideas and thoughts are there.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Diversity, and I hate playing plain clerics? Why the Cleric Hate? You've precisely (better than I could have, actually) described the concept of the class! And who says anything about 'plain'? Your character is as plain or as flavorful as you want it to be. It's your character, after all!


Optimization-wise, for this build, losing or limiting caster levels in arcane or divine doesn't work. Thematic wise it seems to fit, as the 'herald' would handle arcanely raised undead, negative energy areas - and as such possibly even limiting or removing positive energy sources too, in an effort to maintain utter universal balance.

EDIT: the finish to that thought was: he would also deal with the 'divine' aspect of the undead in the souls and spirits, but also possibly reviving those deemed as taken unnaturally or before their time.. Slay Living, Raise Dead, Gentle Repose, Turn/Destroy Undead (to 'exorcise souls to the Great Beyond'), Speak with Dead... it's all in there


The other thought was also (in looking at Libris Mortis) seeing if there was worth in it to find the arcane opposite to the divine that works - sometimes I just don't want to turn/rebuke as a cleric, because I can rebuke/turn as a sorc (sic, necro).

But what I'm gathering is that while the imagination has found the niche, nothing has been built to fill the void beyond what can be roleplayed..
Your problem is that most 'necromancer' classes and prestige classes focus on turning into undead, which your character would probably be rather insulted about.

Really, though, what you are wanting, mechanically at least, is pure Cleric. There isn't a mechanic which is better suited for the task in all of 3.5.

[togapika]

Just play a dread necro and make the fluff what you want?

[Yorae]

Um, just plain old Cleric should be fine, especially if played in a setting that has such a god (Kelemvor in FR fits most of what you stated). Simply pray for mostly spells involving positive and negative energy. Why do you need arcane elements to meet this goal?

This works as long as you're only using necromancy spells that don't actually animate/create undead. Kelemvor really doesn't like that. At all.