ToB and Pathfinder

[SuperFerret]

How balanced is the Tome of Battle with regards to Pathfinder, and what changes would need to be made to use it with that system?

[Andreaz]

They are balanced, being as versatile as usual and with slightly better skills. Their actual power is good, too.

The most glaring changes to adapt it to PF are the maneuvers that...use maneuvers..namely setting sun throws and the warblade's battle array.
Our group just changed them to straight CMB/CMD bona as necessary. Setting Sun throws became "do a trip with cmb using both str and dex" plus whatever the maneuver granted on its own.

[olentu]

You would need to find something to sub in for concentration or revert concentration so that those concentration based maneuvers work.

[peacenlove]

Tome of battle hits a sweet spot since Paizo primarily produces material in the Tier 1-2 range (spellcasters) or Tier 3-4 range (non-spellcasters) and ToB is accepted to be Tier 3-4.


You would need to find something to sub in for concentration or revert concentration so that those concentration based maneuvers work.

IIRC there was a thread about it and Perception was suggested if you haven't access to psionic material, and Autohypnosis if you had.

Some maneuvers that apply a continuous status effect should gain a save per round to remove, as Pathfinder did with many of its spells, however this is not essential since their saves were usually low.

Lastly, for elegance's sake, change the name of "maneuvers" into something else so they do not conflict with the basic combat maneuvers.

[Endarire]

I keep the names of "maneuvers" and "stances." I change CMB and CMD to TM and TD for Technique Modifier & Defense. Maneuvers came first and deserve that name!

As for Concentration, treat your initiator level as your class level for determining Concentration.

[navar100]

For Diamond Mind, change Concentration to Sense Motive or Knowledge (Martial Lore).

Good opportunity to fix things.

1) Allow adepts to change a stance known at 5th level and every 5 levels there after to fix stance progression/availability problem.

2) Clarify Iron Heart Surge to cure things it is meant to cure, like paralysis and nausea despite can't move or no standar action, and not cure things it's not supposed to, like end Anti-Magic Field.

3) Decide if you want White Raven Tactics to be able to use on yourself or not.

4) Give Swordsage the Adaptive Style method for recovering maneuvers. Consider giving Swordsage full BAB but might not be necessary. Clarify Wisdom to AC bonus works when not wearing armor as well.

5) Change Crusader's Smite to work like Pathfinder Paladin's Smite.