Druid sans natural spell

[RedWarrior0]

My DM houseruled out Natural spell (it IS a little unbalanced), and I'm a druid. Obviously, this means some change in focus, but I'm having trouble figuring out what that would be. I'm at level 5 right now, so I just got WS. Retraining is allowed, though, so I'm able to do that, and I'm human with a flaw, so I have 4 feats.

So, any suggestions of how to go about being druidy without becoming a LA+0 intelligent spellcasting bear?

[HalfDragonCube]

Well, your spells are good enough to see you through most things.

Also, if you're going for flaws take two, they're nice.

[MeeposFire]

essentially now your daily uses of wildshape are more important since you no longer can do both at the same time. Still you have plenty of power you just need to decide how you want to use it.

[NeoSeraphi]

One option is going for a melee druid (in human form) and just buffing yourself like crazy so that your animal companion can do all the hard work. (Companion Spellbound, maybe Complete Adventurer? lets you share spells up to 30 feet instead of 5 feet, very good)

Get a quarterstaff and make it big with Shillelagh and Entangling Staff and Brambles. Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Enrage Animal. Suddenly you have one very mean puppy/Fleshraker

[mootoall]

Aw man, now you've been nerfed from being two and a half characters to just one and a half. :smalltongue: Buff your animal companion and have fun with some of the best battlefield control out there!

[gallagher]

pick up the ACF that takes away wild shape, but instead gives you bonuses to certain stats. i forget which one it is or where it is, but you would still be able to cast your spells while being at the very least competent at everything.

you have the best buffs anyway

[Darrin]

So, any suggestions of how to go about being druidy without becoming a LA+0 intelligent spellcasting bear?

Well, if you want to aggravate your DM (and I'm not suggesting that you should), you can pick up Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Species p. 39) and cast in wildshape with that.

When your DM throws up a fuss about that, retrain it to Nonverbal Spellcasting (Planar Handbook p. 40), and use growls as your verbal component.

When he's done fuming about that, retrain one of your feats to Craft Wondrous Item and create yourself a Pearl of Speech (600 GP, MIC p. 118). Use that to cast in wildshape.

Assuming he hasn't completely banned druids (or just you) at that point, suggest you take the Shapeshift ACF from PHBII. While it's essentially a druid nerf, it tends to quiet down the Anti-Treehugger Contingent (at least until you start tossing around blinding spittle, extended creeping cold, flesh to salt, etc.).

As you may already be aware, casting in wildshape is not what makes the druid broken. The most broken part of druid is they are a full caster that gets a very, very good mix of general utility, blasty stuff, battlefield control, and lets-rip-the-sky-open-and-split-the-planet-in-half spells.

[NeoSeraphi]

pick up the ACF that takes away wild shape, but instead gives you bonuses to certain stats. i forget which one it is or where it is, but you would still be able to cast your spells while being at the very least competent at everything.

you have the best buffs anyway

He's referring to the Draconic Shape in the Dragon Magic book, and you are indeed allowed to cast while using those forms.

[Hirax]

pick up the ACF that takes away wild shape, but instead gives you bonuses to certain stats. i forget which one it is or where it is, but you would still be able to cast your spells while being at the very least competent at everything.

you have the best buffs anyway

This, perhaps? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) Not very good, but at least your wisdom will already be high for the AC bonus.

[Rixx]

I was going to not take Natural Spell with my druid anyway.

Being a mounted character with your druid riding your animal companion is a unique option, I think!

[MeeposFire]

I was going to not take Natural Spell with my druid anyway.

Being a mounted character with your druid riding your animal companion is a unique option, I think!

I liked playing a druid where I was the mount for another party member.

[mootoall]

Why choose? A Medium bear can still ride a Large bear ... only now you can't summon bears while riding a bear as a bear. Unbearable.

[mint]

Two things come to mind.
Maybe get that meta-magic that lets you delay a spell so you can benefit from spells that target animals like animal growth.
Get the feat that lets you wildshape as a move action.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Two things come to mind.
Maybe get that meta-magic that lets you delay a spell so you can benefit from spells that target animals like animal growth.
Get the feat that lets you wildshape as a move action.

Wildshaping doesn't change your type.

Which makes warforged druids fuuuuun.

[RedWarrior0]

Awesome, thanks for the tips.

Also, I'm the highest-levelled of three druids right now (It's a fairly large number of players). We can and will eventually have three Bear animal companions and the three of us wild shaped into bears. And stack. And the thing is, it won't be as strange as some of the other things that have happened so far.

Re: Warforged: I think being made of metal counts as wearing metal armor, unfortunately.

[mint]

Haha, wow, I never knew that and I am semi-savvy at 3.5
Turning into an animal does not turn you into an animal. That's like one of the most counter-intuitive things I've heard all week.

[Kaeso]

One option is going for a melee druid (in human form) and just buffing yourself like crazy so that your animal companion can do all the hard work. (Companion Spellbound, maybe Complete Adventurer? lets you share spells up to 30 feet instead of 5 feet, very good)

Get a quarterstaff and make it big with Shillelagh and Entangling Staff and Brambles. Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Enrage Animal. Suddenly you have one very mean puppy/Fleshraker

This, and if you're not going to use wildshape, trade it away with some ACF from UA (I think one of them gives you rage like a barbarian and the monks wis to AC. Since you cant wear metal armor anyway, it's pretty good)

[RedWarrior0]

Unfortunately, this DM is a tricky one, and one of the non-retrainable things is class. If I could, I probably would, though there is some appeal to being able to hit on 5-6 charge attacks.

[TroubleBrewing]

Re: Warforged: I think being made of metal counts as wearing metal armor, unfortunately.

Two things: First, no, it doesn't: the entry for the Mithral and Adamantine Body feats specify that taking one of those feats disqualifies you from Druid casting, and the entry for their Composite Plating ability has no such rider; and second, if your DM is insistent about being wrong about this, there's the Darkwood Body feat. :smallamused:

[MeeposFire]

I think it might be ironwood but that is not important right now...


Also the composite body stays with you into whatever forms you take. That is very nice in the early going though later on it will be beaten by wild armor and the like.

[Talya]

A druid remains a tier 1 class without natural spell. I actually believe removing it is a sound decision both from a balance standpoint and from a roleplaying one -- i much prefer wildshape themed as something you situationally use, rather than something you spend all day in.

You can still make an end-run around your DM though. For instance, Exalted Wildshape and Draconic Wildshape allow some forms that are capable of casting spells without needing natural spell ,Unicorn (see the celestial charger), or any kind of dragon.

[Serpentine]

Well, if you want to aggravate your DM (and I'm not suggesting that you should), you can pick up Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Species p. 39) and cast in wildshape with that.

When your DM throws up a fuss about that, retrain it to Nonverbal Spellcasting (Planar Handbook p. 40), and use growls as your verbal component.

When he's done fuming about that, retrain one of your feats to Craft Wondrous Item and create yourself a Pearl of Speech (600 GP, MIC p. 118). Use that to cast in wildshape.

Assuming he hasn't completely banned druids (or just you) at that point, suggest you take the Shapeshift ACF from PHBII. While it's essentially a druid nerf, it tends to quiet down the Anti-Treehugger Contingent (at least until you start tossing around blinding spittle, extended creeping cold, flesh to salt, etc.).

As you may already be aware, casting in wildshape is not what makes the druid broken. The most broken part of druid is they are a full caster that gets a very, very good mix of general utility, blasty stuff, battlefield control, and lets-rip-the-sky-open-and-split-the-planet-in-half spells.Yes, because abusing your DM for making a completely reasonable houserule is totally the best way to go :sigh:
Casting in wildshape may not be "what makes the druid broken", but it is a perfectly viable method of knocking it back a bit, preventing some bits of abuse, and encouraging dealing with what I think should be the major trade-off of Druids - that it can be "two and a half classes in one", but it can only be one or the other at any one moment.

[Optimator]

The Aspect Of Nature variant from UA might be good in this situation. I've always liked it.

[Kantolin]

Still spell and/or silent spell?

That may help too since it raises the spell level one, making it more fair seeming.

[Leon]

My DM houseruled out Natural spell (it IS a little unbalanced), and I'm a druid. Obviously, this means some change in focus, but I'm having trouble figuring out what that would be. I'm at level 5 right now, so I just got WS. Retraining is allowed, though, so I'm able to do that, and I'm human with a flaw, so I have 4 feats.

So, any suggestions of how to go about being druidy without becoming a LA+0 intelligent spellcasting bear?

No Natural Spell means no less of a Druid. A Druid is still Awesome without Wildshape and a AC

A change in focus isn't really necessary you'll just have to be a melee monster without the overpowering nature of casting while in form. It'll make you a better character in the long run.

[Gnaeus]

Yes, because abusing your DM for making a completely reasonable houserule is totally the best way to go :sigh:
Casting in wildshape may not be "what makes the druid broken", but it is a perfectly viable method of knocking it back a bit, preventing some bits of abuse, and encouraging dealing with what I think should be the major trade-off of Druids - that it can be "two and a half classes in one", but it can only be one or the other at any one moment.

Well, it does sound a little bogus if this houserule appears at level 5. That seems like something that should have been discussed at level 1. Personally, if I nerfed a class in play, I would AT LEAST allow retraining.

My vote would be to get a flying pet like a dire bat and become a mobile casting platform.

[RedWarrior0]

The house rule was in at level one. I initially didn't want to give up Wild Shape, despite the fact that with the house rule WS is inferior to some other alternate class features (plus, it's my first game, so alternate class features seemed odd).

[ericgrau]

Get a quarterstaff and make it big with Shillelagh and Entangling Staff and Brambles. Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Enrage Animal. Suddenly you have one very mean puppy/Fleshraker

Spells are cast in a strong voice. I wonder how you noticed the enemy and yet cast 6 spells in a strong voice without being noticed. I prefer spells like greater magic fang and barkskin since you can cast them early. Then take maybe 1 or 2 of the above quoted spells just in case you have a little time before being discovered, but don't rely on them.