A question pertaining to Good-DM-ness

[Shadow Lord]

I would like to have everyone's opinion on whether or not it's acceptable for a DM to rule that, after a level 2 sorcerer shoots his crossbow into a portal, it comes out and kills him; no save, no rolling, just arrow shoots, he dies. In my opinion, it isn't a good idea. I want other people's opinion though.

[Kylarra]

I think we need a bit more context, but arbitrary death traps generally make for unfun games in my experience.

[Shadowknight12]

Oh boy.

In before the thread explodes in "what makes a good DM" and "old school versus new school" arguments?

To the OP: My personal opinion is that it's a sign of a DM with such poor abilities it borders on the hilarious. Assuming there was no warning something like this would happen, if I was in the sorcerer's player's position, I would get up and leave the group, never to return again. If I knew it could happen, I would shrug. If I sat down to play knowing such a kind of death might occur, I have no right to get upset when it happens.

[Urpriest]

Seems childish. Of course we don't know the context...but yeah, seems childish.

[ImperatorK]

Yeah, we need more details. But all in all it's a terrible idea. If that would happen to me, just like that, out of the blue, I would smack the DM.

[myancey]

Yeah, sounds like a bad idea. Even traps that fire darts receive an attack roll to see if they beat your AC. You should either get a reflex save or some kind of attack vs. AC.

[Shadow Lord]

The context is that he was supposedly pissing said GM off. I mean, there was no warning for the guy. He shot a crossbow into it, and it came out from behind and insta-killed him. There really wasn't any context to the portal. I believe it was supposed to take the party somewhere, or something.

[Kojiro]

Huh. Well, if it was a transport portal, then apparently it would have taken them a few feet in the other direction, which is pointless, if a bit amusing if that was the intention. (Spoiler: It wasn't.) Also, mechanically, from what I grasp of the rules, instant-killing here is definitely unfair; he should have gotten a hit roll and, if that failed, a damage roll against a crossbow attack, possibly using his own roll, plus a penalty because it's highly unlikely that he fired it in such a manner that it'd come back out and nail him in the back, especially considering the general lack of skill a sorcerer would presumably have with weapons. Heck, it'd be more likely to hit the guy next to him than him himself.

[137beth]

I think that a crossbow bolt fired into a portal comes out the other end of the portal. At worst, it should fire back at you and try to hit your AC.

Now, if this were AD&D 1e, then it would be perfectly fair (less dangerous that half the stuff in ToH.) But in 3.5 you don't die without a saving throw unless something really weird is going on. Also, I can't think of any possible story-reason that the situation you described should happen.

[Urpriest]

Actually, IIRC if the guy is using actual portal rules then the bolt couldn't go through in the first place: only creatures and things carried by creatures can go through portals.

[Worira]

Unless the other side of the portal was the guy's monocle or something, I'm not sure why that would be any more dangerous than a level 2 sorcerer firing a crossbow in your general direction, even if it was a portal that inexplicably led a few feet away.

[Ursus the Grim]

Is the player in question you? If so, a little bit more context would be nice. Why did the DM think you were ticking him off? Are the other players in agreement with you?

For all we know the sorceror in question was, say, running into melee and demanding he gets insta-hits with his crossbow because there's no way he could miss at that range.

Given the context, everyone seems to be in agreement that this is unfair. Especially considering that the Sorc likely has at least 5 hit points, and the average crossbow bolt deals an average of 4.5 damage.

In any case, I would strongly advise against confronting the DM with the playground's opinion. "You're wrong because people on the internet said so" is a pretty good way to get a childish DM to throw a temper tantrum.

[BlueInc]

Heh, now you're thinking with portals.

If you're intentionally annoying the DM, your character is always in danger.

If it was built into the game, there should have been some kind of save or attack roll, but DM is god.