New Player- help with a character?

[QuidEst]

Hey there, everybody. I just joined because this seemed like a great place to get some D&D advice. I haven't played before, but I know a fair amount of the basics from here, Darths and Droids, and a bit of looking around on the internet. Anyways, I'm looking for some tips for a bard character I'm doing.

Some meta-details:
I favor roleplaying over mechanics, but really love pulling clever combos where possible.
We'll only be using the Player's Handbook, nothing fancy.
The group sounds like they have a good sense of humor, and don't mind things going meta now and again.
We're starting at level one, but there may be some bonus XP to speed things up for a little bit.

The character:
It's a Chaotic Neutral female human with a split personality character, Comedy and Tragedy. Rather than going for a traditional musical bard, I'm making a theatric one. They wear a grey, hooded robe and a theater mask that changes its expression to match which one of them is "out". The two halves get along with one another very well, despite their different views.

Comedy is boisterous, outgoing, lacks any modicum of respect, and plays to the trickster archetype. She is mostly inspired by Gilbert and Sullivan plays, with a bit of "Punch and Judy" thrown in. She is almost always willing to make a joke at anybody's expense, herself included. She favors spells like Hideous Laughter or Glibness.

Tragedy is somber, cryptic, and a little morbid, but is kinder and more empathetic than Comedy. She is inspired by Shakespearean tragedies, with a few elements of Greek tragedy as well. She is often lost in thought, and finds beauty in things like a spider eating its meal. Traj favors spells like Crushing Despair, Blindness, or Ghost Sound.

The only stats difference between them is that Com's ranks in Perform(Sing) are translated to ranks in Perform(Oratory) for Tragedy. (They'll both have Perform(Act) as well.) Comedy will be out most of the time, being the more active of the two.

I'm just wondering what sort of builds you would suggest. I'm leaning towards heavy focus on performance, disguise, bluffing, and diplomacy. Suggestions for spells, tricks, feats, etc. are all very welcome.

One quick question, though… can you "Lesser Geas" a shopkeeper into giving discounts? I feel that Comedy would try it, at least, even if it means getting run out of town.

[BlueInc]

It's a good thing you like roleplaying... as a bard, you're only as good as your act. The moment people start rolling dice for anything but a bluff check you're dead.

Get a good INT and CHA, INT for skills and Bardic Knowledge, CHA for everything else. DEX and CON if you can afford them. Your best spells at low level will be things that let you control the battlefield like Grease and buffs.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It's a good thing you like roleplaying... as a bard, you're only as good as your act. The moment people start rolling dice for anything but a bluff check you're dead.

Bards are great! Just not if they aren't allowed the feats outside core...

[myancey]

One quick question, though… can you "Lesser Geas" a shopkeeper into giving discounts? I feel that Comedy would try it, at least, even if it means getting run out of town.

I read through the spell description pretty fast..but yeah, it seems like you would be able to. But if the geas only forces a discount--he could just outright refuse to buy and sell to you, creating a loophole. At least, I think so.

[BlueInc]

A lesser geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by you. The creature must have 7 or fewer Hit Dice and be able to understand you. While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity.

The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.

If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level. A clever recipient can subvert some instructions:

If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for 24 hours, it takes a -2 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -8. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the lesser geas.

^The exact wording.

Check with your DM. It says they have to carry out some specific service to you, so your DM might allow "Sell me goods at a 50% for an hour" but they might limit it to a single transaction such as "Buy this item from me at double the normal price."

[QuidEst]

Bards are great! Just not if they aren't allowed the feats outside core...
Yeah, I saw that most of the good feats were non-core. I'm not too worried, though- we've got plenty of bruisers in the group, so Com and Traj can take a back seat role.

This is roughly what I had in mind for spells by 8th level. A lot of it is based on fun applications and character style.

0th level:
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Ghost Sound
Detect Magic
Two more cantrips

1st level:
Hideous Laughter
Disguise Self
Silent Image
Cause Fear or Grease

2nd level:
Scare
Minor Image
Cure Moderate Wounds
Blindness

3rd level:
Crushing Despair
Glibness
Lesser Geas


But if the geas only forces a discount--he could just outright refuse to buy and sell to you, creating a loophole. At least, I think so.
Good point- thanks! I know it doesn't work on shopkeepers level 8 and up, or if they make a Will save. It'll be interesting to see how it goes over, though.


Check with your DM. It says they have to carry out some specific service to you, so your DM might allow "Sell me goods at a 50% for an hour" but they might limit it to a single transaction such as "Buy this item from me at double the normal price."
I know if I were DM, I'd try to bring in the law. Casting on shopkeepers is probably frowned on. Com would probably try it in a small village, though.

[myancey]

Good point- thanks! I know it doesn't work on shopkeepers level 8 and up, or if they make a Will save. It'll be interesting to see how it goes over, though.


And if needed, remind your DM that shopkeepers with magic items aren't level 20 characters--they usually just hire lots of guards and have certain spells around the shop.

The reason I say this--I had a DM whose shop owners were all level 20s, so we could never steal from them.

[QuidEst]

And if needed, remind your DM that shopkeepers with magic items aren't level 20 characters--they usually just hire lots of guards and have certain spells around the shop.

I don't think they'd pull level 20s on us- that's an awful lot of working out. XP May need that Glibness to get a Lesser Geas past any hired guards, though!

Anyways, any fun tricks? I figured I could have them change the mask color with Prestidigitation for a stage trick. In combat, maybe create a distraction with a spare mask attached to a light-weight cloak, plus Mage Hand.

[Heatwizard]

Reminds me of a PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) out of Complete Scoundrel. It's not core, I just thought I'd share.

[QuidEst]

Reminds me of a PrC out of Complete Scoundrel. It's not core, I just thought I'd share.
Oh hey! I saw that posted somewhere. I thought it was just a homebrew, though. Thanks for that! Yeah, it's not core, but… eh, better chance of being able to use it if it's official, right?

[myancey]

Oh hey! I saw that posted somewhere. I thought it was just a homebrew, though. Thanks for that! Yeah, it's not core, but… eh, better chance of being able to use it if it's official, right?

That's too bad you're not allowed to use more than core--especially for a player looking for fluff. I'd reward you a lot for playing a RP oriented character. Props for trying to fluff him up.

[QuidEst]

That's too bad you're not allowed to use more than core--especially for a player looking for fluff. I'd reward you a lot for playing a RP oriented character. Props for trying to fluff him up.
Well, her. I suspect I won't be the only one, though- two people are pairing up to do a gnome rogue who rides into battle on a dwarf monk. XP

I don't know that we're not allowed to use it, it might just be that they only have the core book. I'm fine trying to figure stuff out with a narrower selection of options- it still works well enough to keep me entertained.

[marcielle]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203376

A kindred spirit for your gnome-buddy. Halfway through this thread a dwarf riding gnome is suggested.

See if your DM will allow a special exception for a necromantic spell called bonefiddle. You basically play a haunting melody on a fiddle and your opponent feels as if you are sawing on his bones. Would probably be awesomely thematic for tragedy but it's an arcane spell so you'll either have to ask your DM for an exception or get a magic fiddle enchanted with this. Its not too powerful and is only useful for tons of style so your DM might actually let you have it.

[QuidEst]

You basically play a haunting melody on a fiddle and your opponent feels as if you are sawing on his bones.
Dang… that is /classy/ creepy. XP I checked out the spell, and you just rub your fingers like a miniature violin- it's actually their bones making the sound. Lets me have violin music without spending even more ranks on a Perform(Whatever), acts as great flavor (even if darker than I tend to make Traj), and it actually gives a good reason for them to not play string instruments- this might happen. She could impress/creep out everybody by playing it on herself, too. In reality, of course, she would have bones tied to her arms under her cloak. Thanks for that!

(Also, I'm a little surprised at some of these 2nd level spells… permanently blinding or deafening somebody if they don't make fortitude? 0_o And then you can use the same spell immediately afterwards to do the other?)

[Omeganaut]

@marcielle, bards technically are arcane casters. That spell may not be on the bard spell list, but its still an arcane spell. Sorry to nitpick. As for the bard, I love playing bards, and your character seems great, especially considering the oddity of other characters. have a good game!

[QuidEst]

That spell may not be on the bard spell list, but its still an arcane spell. Sorry to nitpick.
At least from what I saw, it's on the Bard list as a level 2 spell. I might be able to get it past the DM by pointing out that it is both cooler and less abuse-prone than Blindness/Deafness.


As for the bard, I love playing bards, and your character seems great, especially considering the oddity of other characters. have a good game!
Thanks. I'm glad they seem interesting. I'm keeping a mental list of great one-liners from around the forum to borrow for Comedy. XP Not to mention the numerous quick little songs I have for her. (I may have to pass "Abbott and Costello" off as extra-planar beings of comedy to get by with a rhyme off of them, but it'll work.)