Black Belt

[ExemplarofAvg]

I wish, to make a DnD character that can function as a master of martial arts with the ability to tackle a situation a number of different ways, and no Swordsage will not work for what I have in mind, well, it might but I don't know the method for it to. I want a character that has all of the "Improved _____ Feats" and can use them well. (Disarm, Feint, Trip, Grapple, Bullrush, Overrun and Sunder) These first require the feats Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike (As well as superior so my fists don't suck) and Power Attack. This concept is very feat intensive as you can see. Requiring 11 feats total, and even with using a Human Fighter with two flaws would not be available until 8th level, alternatively if you feel that this is impossible, please let me know as if not I intend to make something that will be plausible and work with these. (Thinking of drawing on monks unarmed strike and bonus Int to Dex and will have Full Bab, good Fort and Ref d10 HD, and 4+Int skills, as well as some way to gain the above mentioned feats through some class feature or something) If anything like that exists (Homebrewed or not) please let me know.

[Urpriest]

Two questions:

1. Do you actually need the Improved X feats for each type of activity, or do you merely want the benefits of being able to do each type of action well? For example, a character with proficiency in all Exotic Weapons (look up Haberdash the Masked) can probably do several of those things ok without the associated feats. Maneuvers can also get you many of these things (trip, bull rush, disarm) better than the feats can.

2. Some of your choices are a bit confusing: Improved Feint for example is a way to get in sneak attack, it isn't a combat maneuver in the game world. There's no fluff to feinting without sneak attack.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Two questions:

1. Do you actually need the Improved X feats for each type of activity, or do you merely want the benefits of being able to do each type of action well? For example, a character with proficiency in all Exotic Weapons (look up Haberdash the Masked) can probably do several of those things ok without the associated feats. Maneuvers can also get you many of these things (trip, bull rush, disarm) better than the feats can.

The feats aren't necessary, but the "does not provoke attacks of opportunity thing is quite nice, And the +4 for the check doesn't hurt much either.

2. Some of your choices are a bit confusing: Improved Feint for example is a way to get in sneak attack, it isn't a combat maneuver in the game world. There's no fluff to feinting without sneak attack.

I'm aware, it's included due to the use of Feinting in martial arts, and because it completed the set of the Combat Expertise Improved's, as well as being a way to remove some Ac from my opponent. So while it will have no major affect for flavour and rounding out I included it (If I do build the class, I intend to put in a "Powerful Blow type" ability that allows for more damage when the foe is denied dexterity or is flat-footed not quite to the extent of Sneak Attack however, maybe just one extra attack.


I hope that answered your questions well enough.

[Urpriest]

Ok, still somewhat confused: are you homebrewing a class, or making a character? If the former, you might want to put this thread in the homebrew forums.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Ok, still somewhat confused: are you homebrewing a class, or making a character? If the former, you might want to put this thread in the homebrew forums.

He put this exact same thread in the homebrew forums. I have no idea why he put it here as well.

[ExemplarofAvg]

It's not the exact same but focuses on the same character type and I put in both because if it's possible to do without homebrewing I would like to, but if not plausible at all I'm going to have to homebrew. I'm just covering all of my bases.

[Zonugal]

Hmm?

Well this can be achieved by 3rd level with the use of flaws as so:

Human Passive Way Monk 2/Fighter 1
Power Attack [1st], Improved Sunder [Human], Improved Unarmed Strike [Mnk1], Combat Expertise [Mnk1], Improved Bullrush [Flaw], Improved Overrun [Flaw], Improved Trip [Mnk2], Improved Feint [Ftr1], and Improved Grapple [3rd].

With that said it makes a pretty awful build and does a very poor job of actually simulating a black belt in the realm of D&D.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Hmm?

Well this can be achieved by 3rd level with the use of flaws as so:

Human Passive Way Monk 2/Fighter 1
Power Attack [1st], Improved Sunder [Human], Improved Unarmed Strike [Mnk1], Combat Expertise [Mnk1], Improved Bullrush [Flaw], Improved Overrun [Flaw], Improved Trip [Mnk2], Improved Feint [Ftr1], and Improved Grapple [3rd].

With that said it makes a pretty awful build and does a very poor job of actually simulating a black belt in the realm of D&D.

Well there's the feats down, thank you, now to find a way to make it playable.

[Zonugal]

Add another level of Fighter, pick up the Dungeon-crasher alternate class feature from Dungeonscape and than go Swordsage till 20.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Add another level of Fighter, pick up the Dungeon-crasher alternate class feature from Dungeonscape and than go Swordsage till 20.

Dungeoncrasher? and any suggestions on Maneuvers?

[Zonugal]

Dungeoncrasher? and any suggestions on Maneuvers?

Dungeoncrasher nabs you the bonus of +4d6 & twice your strength bonus if you happen to bullrush an opponent into a wall or obstacle. It also provides you with a +5 strength bonus to break down any door, obstacle or wall. But the main reason you would take it is to bring your class levels to an even point before jumping into swordsage.

Regarding maneuver selection sticking to Setting Sun, Stone Dragon and either Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw should prove useful.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Some kind of ToB is definatly the way to go. A lot of manuevers can stand in for various feats from your list.

Improved Feint-At least a half dozen maneuvers probably more like a dozen, flank, deny dex, force flat-footed.

Improved Disarm- Disarming Srike

Improved Bullrush- Charging Minotaur

Improved Trip- The throw line from Setting Sun.

Expertise- Baffling Defense, Scorpion Parry, Manticore Parry (this is a philisophical replacement)

Grapple-I don't have an answer to though stone dragon can get you a constrict attack or a bonus to defense against grapple/trip/bullrush

Sunder-can't get actual improved sunder but the stone dragon strike can substitute for falling star strike to let you easily break and items you attack.

If homebrew is an option try starting with warblade and trading white raven for setting sun. Then maybe some of the unarmed swordsage's adaptions.

[Kaeso]

Some kind of ToB is definatly the way to go. A lot of manuevers can stand in for various feats from your list.

Improved Feint-At least a half dozen maneuvers probably more like a dozen, flank, deny dex, force flat-footed.

Improved Disarm- Disarming Srike

Improved Bullrush- Charging Minotaur

Improved Trip- The throw line from Setting Sun.

Expertise- Baffling Defense, Scorpion Parry, Manticore Parry (this is a philisophical replacement)

Grapple-I don't have an answer to though stone dragon can get you a constrict attack or a bonus to defense against grapple/trip/bullrush

Sunder-can't get actual improved sunder but the stone dragon strike can substitute for falling star strike to let you easily break and items you attack.

If homebrew is an option try starting with warblade and trading white raven for setting sun. Then maybe some of the unarmed swordsage's adaptions.

I'd like to add that the mountain hammer line might be better for sunder, as it ignores hardness if I'm not mistaken. It litterally allows you to punch holes through walls.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Some kind of ToB is definatly the way to go. A lot of manuevers can stand in for various feats from your list.

Improved Feint-At least a half dozen maneuvers probably more like a dozen, flank, deny dex, force flat-footed.

Improved Disarm- Disarming Srike

Improved Bullrush- Charging Minotaur

Improved Trip- The throw line from Setting Sun.

Expertise- Baffling Defense, Scorpion Parry, Manticore Parry (this is a philisophical replacement)

Grapple-I don't have an answer to though stone dragon can get you a constrict attack or a bonus to defense against grapple/trip/bullrush

Sunder-can't get actual improved sunder but the stone dragon strike can substitute for falling star strike to let you easily break and items you attack.

If homebrew is an option try starting with warblade and trading white raven for setting sun. Then maybe some of the unarmed swordsage's adaptions.


I'd like to add that the mountain hammer line might be better for sunder, as it ignores hardness if I'm not mistaken. It litterally allows you to punch holes through walls.

What Disciplines contain the Charging Minotaur, Disarming Strike, and any of the possible Feint maneuvers. The Combat Expertise part was just as a qualifier for the feats, I don't actually need it. Hmm, I may make this into a Unarmed Sublimer if I can get a clear grouping of Disciplines. so far Setting Sun and Stone Dragon seem most appropriate.

[Urpriest]

What Disciplines contain the Charging Minotaur, Disarming Strike, and any of the possible Feint maneuvers. The Combat Expertise part was just as a qualifier for the feats, I don't actually need it. Hmm, I may make this into a Unarmed Sublimer if I can get a clear grouping of Disciplines. so far Setting Sun and Stone Dragon seem most appropriate.

I think a lot of the Feint stuff is Diamond Mind or Shadow Blade, while Charging Minotaur is Stone Dragon. I don't remember Disarming Strike, but Exorcism of Steel also disarms and is Iron Heart.

[Essence_of_War]

I have links to the 3 ToB handbooks in my signature. They are all excellent resources.

Iron Heart gives Disarming Strike and Dazing Strike, Stone Dragon gives you access to Charging Minotaur.

A Warblade gets access to both of those schools out of the box, I would just recommend you play a warblade right out of the box. You can even play one who does everything unarmed, and if you like the abilities, and really want to write "monk" somewhere on your character sheet, a 2 level dip in monk can be a fine start.

As far as long term goals, the master of 9 prestige class has the fluff and crunch one might associate with the archetypal "wise martial arts master". Check that out also.

[ericgrau]

There are ways to survive without the feats until you get them later:
1. Pick easy targets. Many things can't even match your BAB+str, let alone the +4.
2. Find ways around provoking. Reach weapons, targets without a melee weapon, stunned targets.
3. Get a high AC and/or simply eat the AoO damage. If you do this you may want to make your first improved X feats the ones that cover what gets cancelled if you get hit, grapple and disarm IIRC.

I'd find a way to boost your speed and tumble ASAP, without too many levels nor compromising your strength. If you can make a DC 15 75% of the time that's a good start, though 100% is preferred. All that takes is a +9 to +14 modifier. You'd probably want to dip barbarian 1 and other such things that give a speed boost, then get an item for the enhancement bonus like boots of striding and springing then later boots of speed. Or skip all that and get a move/swift teleportation item like those found in MiC. One of these methods will let you select your target.

Stunning fist is fairly unreliable for a stun, but there may be other ways. And it's superb in terms of action economy so it doesn't hurt to get it on top of something else.

[Urpriest]

Seconding Master of Nine. You'll probably want to be a multiclass Warblade/Swordsage to enter it. Master of Nine really is the "master of all martial techniques" style character, and it's not a weak class by any means.

[Morph Bark]

It's not the exact same but focuses on the same character type and I put in both because if it's possible to do without homebrewing I would like to, but if not plausible at all I'm going to have to homebrew. I'm just covering all of my bases.

For future reference: you should just have put a thread in Roleplaying here then. Homebrew is more for if you want to homebrew something yourself. Duplicate threads are baaaaad.

[ExemplarofAvg]

For future reference: you should just have put a thread in Roleplaying here then. Homebrew is more for if you want to homebrew something yourself. Duplicate threads are baaaaad.

Ah, yes, thank you, but I figured that most people would comment "Well if your thinking about homebrewing this doesn't belong here. No matter where I put it, so I put it in both.