3.5 Cleric of Olidammara help

[Kojiro]

Hello. Topic is, well, exactly what it says; I would like some help designing a cleric of Olidammara for a campaign that may (or may not) start soon. Doesn't need to be super-optimized, but I'd like some help avoiding really stupid design choices.

Things I've decided, already, will have to be worked with:

Will take at least one, possibly two levels of Rogue; more than that is probably not happening. Main reasons for this are to gain access to skills like Bluff, Sleight of Hand, and other things a priest of the Laughing Rogue should be able to do, as well as proficiency with a rapier (the main weapon the character will use) without using a feat.

Possible domains are Celerity, Luck, and Trickery. Last one seems a bit useless if I get the Rogue levels, even though the special ability of the first requires light armor (which is actually appropriate for a roguish cleric), so it'll probably be Celerity and Luck, unless the GM limits us to the core books. Advice here would be appreciated, though.

Character will be human, and probably Chaotic Good; if not, then Chaotic Neutral. Either way, the cleric will be able to use spontaneous casting for healing rather than harming, and turning rather than rebuking; Olidammara doesn't seem like the type to be that fond of undead anyway.

Apart from the few Rogue levels, the character will probably not multiclass much, if at all; that one Temple Raider of Olidammara prestige class, for example, seems more like something to add to non-clerics than someone who's already a divine spellcaster. If there is some sort of really good reason to multiclass, though, then maybe. I'll consider good suggestions.

Hm, I think that's it. Available books are the core rulebooks, obviously, and possibly things like Complete Divine and so on. Don't bother recommending really obscure books, homebrew, or non-WotC books, we definitely won't have access to them.

Anyway, I think that's it. Cleric of Olidammara, somewhat unconventional and weird, and so on. Any recommendations for feats or anything, or reasons on why my domain choices are fine/terrible/whatever?

Also, considering that any healing spell (except Heal and Mass Heal), at least in the core books, can be cast spontaneously, is it worth it to prepare mostly non-healing spells to be prepared for different situations and then "burn" them for healing as necessary? It seems like a worthwhile strategy, having a wide range of spells for various conceivable (and a few inconceivable) situations, then sacrificing what looks like it won't be useful when needed for healing instead? While preparing a Heal or two when I have access it seems reasonable, is preparing the various Cure spells worth it, or is it better to have flexibility instead?

[Kol Korran]

people might come chiming in about DMM persist and Nightsticks and so on. i'm not much a fan of that, and you seem to be more "theme focused" than "power focused" (though the two can be combined), so i'll stay away from that.

first of all, a few questions that might help us help you:
1) what level are you starting in? what level is the campaign planned to reach?
2) what do you want your cleric to achieve? in battle and out of battle? out of battle i will assume you're going to be generally the shifty/ scoundrel guy.
3) if you happen to know- what will the others play? is any of them playing a rogue?

my thoughts:
1) i don't know the celerity domain, so i can't advise on that, but the trickery domain will enable you to take those skills and raise them throughout your career. this is important as challanges increas, and at level 8+ your rogue skills won't matter much more.

plus, i really like the disguise self spell at first level- opens up lots of possibilities.

2) do you know what a cloistered cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) is? less hp, less armor, but you get access to knowledge skills and 6 skills/ level! this could improve your skill selection quite a bit, and explain why you may be withdrawn from a fight. if you prefer to be a fighting sort, then stay the regular cleric.

3) the strategy you suggested for the spell use is the regular one used by clerics. however, most cleric buy a wand of Lesser Vigor (CoD) or CLW early in their career (750 gp for 50 charges) and use it to heal after battle. some may say that in battle healing is/ isn't effective, it all depends on your party and DM.

4) multiclass if you wish. i don't think you really need to.

5) a feat i really like is "Divine Spell power" (CoD). basically you use your turn attempts to boost your caster level of spells. this served me well many times. also, it has a random element in it (you make a sort of "turn undead roll'. read the feat), which i think is very fitting for a goddess of luck.

6) i'm not sure in what book it's in (i think the spell compendium or complete adventurer) there is a 2nd level spell called "Divine Insight" which i think is the most versatile and fun spell of that level. i had to mention it.

you feel new to the game to me. but it matters not. you're welcome, and have fun!

[Yuki Akuma]

How is Trickery pointless if you go Rogue? Trickery has a ton of awesome spells.

Time Stop, for instance.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... you might look up the Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) variant, and see if your DM will cooperate on homebrewing a domain to give you trapfinding and the rest of the roguish skills that don't come with the Trickery domain (So Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Open Lock, Move Silently, possibly UMD - just make the domain spell list redundant with the Cleric and Trickery list to cover for the really nice skill list).

If you can't get the homebrewed domain, then yes - a one-level dip into Rogue, grab the Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny) and go the rest into Cloistered Cleric.

There's a number of spells that'll be really useful - Divine Insight (Spell Compendium) has already been named, but Find Traps is a fun one as well - especially if your DM will permit Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) - you can become a trapfinder supreme that way.

[gorfnab]

Have you looked into the Divine Trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623145#post9623145) by the Giant himself Rich Burlew? It would be considered 3rd party/homebrew, however this guy did write a few D&D books such as Dungeonscape. A decent build for this would be Rogue 3/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Divine Trickster 10/ Divine Oracle 4

[Kojiro]

How is Trickery pointless if you go Rogue? Trickery has a ton of awesome spells.

Time Stop, for instance.

Well, Celerity also has Time Stop (edit: And Improved Blink, Haste, both regular and Mass Cat's Grace, Blur, and so on), and if Rogue is multiclassed the skills are already in, too, so getting access to them doesn't help. It also increases movement speed by 10 ft when in no or light armor, which at least seems neat.

Anyway, on the general topic, thanks for all the help so far. I'm doing some work at the moment, but I'll add some more to this soon. This is all pretty useful and interesting so far, though.

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, Celerity also has Time Stop, and if Rogue is multiclassed the skills are already in, too, so getting access to them doesn't help. It also increases movement speed by 10 ft when in no or light armor, which at least seems neat.

Anyway, on the general topic, thanks for all the help so far. I'm doing some work at the moment, but I'll add some more to this soon. This is all pretty useful and interesting so far, though.

What about Polymorph Any Object? Or Invisiblity?

[Kojiro]

Well, let's see. Trickery to Celerity, * denotes something clerics can't normally have:

1. Disguise Self* - Expeditious Retreat*
2. Invisibility* - Cat's Grace*
3. Nondetection* - Blur*
4. Confusion* - Haste*
5. False Vision* - Tree Stride*
6. Mislead* (provided by Luck too, though) - Wind Walk
7. Screen* - Cat's Grace, Mass*
8. Polymorph Any Object* - Blink, Improved*
9. Time Stop* for both

So, hm. Trickery provides entirely new spells (although Luck also gives Mislead), while Celerity provides eight things Clerics normally can't get, which, since I'm definitely taking Luck, averages out to the same thing. Celerity meanwhile has a better ability, and considering that I'm going for a somewhat roguish cleric, light armor fits anyway.

I suppose the deciding factor there, unless the DM decides we're limited to core for some reason, is whether the spells in one are greatly superior to the other, although since Celerity has a better ability I think it has a slight advantage. I dunno.

[Kojiro]

Okay, thought over some things for this, and considered most of what's been said here. As Kol said, regular cleric makes more sense for one who may be on the frontlines sometime, and the character I had in mind is a more active cleric, so despite the awesomeness of the cloistered cleric class (which I think I'll have to try in a different campaign) I'm probably passing on it. Multiclassing is probably just going to be a single level of Rogue at second level, a second one sometime later, and all cleric for the rest. Probably, at least. May even stick to just a single level.

Now, let's see. Still leaning towards the Celerity domain, although Trickery does have awesome spells in it too. Also, on spellcasting, I learned recently that, since a cleric's spells are prepared in advance, if I want to use metamagic healing spells then those would have to be prepared, which leads me to my next question: Should I invest in metamagic feats? What other feats are good for a cleric? Again, the character is sort of sneaky for a holy man, but is also generally good-natured and such, being a representative of Olidammara's religion. Not a backstabber, but something of a manipulator, being clever and whatnot with magic rather than big blasty things. Usually. I mean, sometimes you just have to do something flashy; Olidammara can appreciate that stuff too, if you do it right.

So, yeah. Any more domain suggestions, or feat ideas, or just general suggestions? This game won't be with people who are at about my experience level, or less, and the DM's not vicious, so there's no need to be ridiculously optimized (although there's also no need to just be ridiculous, hence my asking for help here). And, again, thanks for all the help so far.